Preview Round 5, 2022: St.Kilda v Gold Coast - Marvel Stadium, Saturday 16th April, 1:45PM AEST

[BrutThough]

This week is quickly becoming a test of our maturity and whether we have grown in that area.

Ryder suspended. Ratts out. Neither are an excuse to put in a poor performance against a developing side on our home ground.

We just need to get the 4 points like a mature, good side does.

 

[Hubnester]

The only safe coach is Dew, COVID took one look and said shit I am not going in there .

I knew it. KFC is the answer. Explains why I never got it either

 

[bird_man]

Clubs that have gone in without their senior coach are currently 4 wins 0 losses

 

[longlivelenny]

Shut up.
If you’re gonna get this worked up about defending the chook lotto maybe get your facts straight. “It was high” yet high contact is what counted into their ruling.
Absolute farce for paddy and the game.

Lol shut up, very mature.

I'm not worked up at all. I would love paddy to be playing and I don't like that what he did earns a suspension as it seems ridiculous. But the fact is, he bumped and the kid got concussed. If you can't understand that then you're stupid.

If the shoe was on the other foot and NWM got concussed from a bump then we would be calling for a suspension exactly like the hawks board was about paddy

On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[bird_man]

Why exactly is bracing for contact that Day initiates by slowing Day down with his hands Paddys responsibility?

Youre saying he should have extended his arms which is fine but its not like you must do that to pressure a player, alternately putting your arms out doesnt mean you wont still brace for impact.

Short of not going to force Day to dispose of the ball (which is a pretty silly suggestion) nothing youve suggested would have changed the outcome.

FFS

Suggesting Day initiated the contact us laughable mate

 

[phantom13]

FFS

Suggesting Day initiated the contact us laughable mate

I mean watch the replay, its really not.

Paddy initiated movement towards Day to force him to dispose of the ball. Day did the rest. There is a great post on the autopsy thread that shows just how much Day moved and changed lines to initiate the contact. I should clarify, i dont think Day intentionally ran into Paddy but Paddy takes a line and then stops, Day changes direction into Paddys line (i think he didnt realise Paddy was still there or perhaps just had a total brain fart or he may have been trying to milk some contact to get a downfield or 50m penalty or something).

The other problem is that the head is not truly sacrosanct in the AFL. It's perfectly fine to s**tmix Hunter Clark or Jack Higgins in multiple situations, where you will be judged on the action, rather than the outcome. Then you have the Ben Long incident against the Doggies where one specific action, combined with a presumption of "potential to cause injury" sees weeks given when the "offended" player was completely unharmed and plays out the game.

My gears grind a bit on this, because we know St Kilda players are over-represented in concussion-related retirements, yet anytime our players get laid out, or damaged above the shoulders, it is a "football incident" (which apparently mitigates all possible outcomes of those concussions). On the other hand, I guess we can be thankful that the league doesn't give weeks every time Selwood leads with his head and has to break out the sticky tape.

To the topic at hand, I'd really like to see the club appeal Ryder's suspension, backed up with a proper biomechanical analysis of the Day incident, because if you watch it in slow-mo from behind, Day's change of direction is clear - had he stayed on the line he held up to the point of the kick, Ryder's action of stopping would have resulted in a glancing blow, at worst, rather than full contact.

View attachment 1370048

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Up to the point of the kick, there's no sign that Day is going to change direction - After the kick, Day plants his right foot, and pushes into a direction change - Ryder is already visibly trying to stop his forward momentum.

View attachment 1370057
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At this point, I reckon the only thing Paddy could potentially have done would be to try and flop backwards, or de-materialize ... he does make every effort to stay low, however, and avoid high contact - his shoulder is noticeably lower than Day's at this point, and Day is actually airborne at the point of impact, facing approximately 90 degrees away from his original path.

View attachment 1370062

View attachment 1370067

It actually appears that Day's head impacts on his own hand, moreso than making any direct contact with Paddy.

View attachment 1370082


By contrast to the English bump, where Blakey was running DIRECTLY at English throughout the clip, and English opts to turn to his left and brace the right shoulder, Paddy needed to be clairvoyant to be able to forsee that Day would turn basically 90 degrees from his original line and launch directly into him.

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Given that Day played further time on ground, I'd also be interested to know if:

a) Day was PROPERLY assessed for concussion after the incident (he was only off the ground for a couple of minutes - is that sufficient time to administer a concussion test - was ANY consideration given to having him off the ground for the 20 minutes rather than expose him to more contact?) BEFORE being allowed to resume.
b) If not, why not? On what grounds was he allowed to continue? The speed at which he was interchanged back on raises questions which should be answered by the Hawthorn medical staff
c) Whether any of the contests that Day participated in following the Ryder incident influenced his halftime substitution following a seemingly hasty return to the field:

9:13 - Whistle blows on the Ryder contact
7:44 - Marking contest with Mason Wood
7:26 - Marking contest with Rowan Marshall and Sam Frost
7:24 - Tackled by Mason Wood (Day was still on his knees in back of frame 4 seconds later while Wood had regained his feet)
6:53 - Pack marking contest involving King, Wood, Marshall and another Hawk - looking at the reverse angle replay (around 6:37) it appears his head makes contact with King's right arm as well as his torso impacting with Marshall's back which would also be a fair jolt) - pretty sure he ran to interchange after this.
5:10 - Commentators state that Day was checked out by the doctors ... "All clear, just a little graze under the chin" - cut to shot of Day looking fine on the bench, with no signs of bleeding.

Then we get to the other side of halftime, and they start with the coordinated crucifixion of Ryder in a trial-by-media special.

Personally, I think the incident was worth the downfield free kick, possibly a 50m penalty, but not two weeks. Ryder's actions in the lead-up had every potential to AVOID injury to Day, had he not turned 90 degrees following the kick, which could not reasonably be foreseen, IMHO. There was no direct contact with Day's head, so really, even if you took the absolute worst interpretation of Paddy's intent, combined with the nature of the impact and outcome, there's no way it should be more than one week. I honestly think Hawthorn's medical staff have much more to answer for in rushing him back onto the field - imagine how WE would have been crucified, had we allowed Higgins to play on for one moment longer after the Ralphsmith tackle ...

Day moves somewhere between 45 and 60 degrees off his inital line

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Lol shut up, very mature.

I'm not worked up at all. I would love paddy to be playing and I don't like that what he did earns a suspension as it seems ridiculous. But the fact is, he bumped and the kid got concussed. If you can't understand that then you're stupid.

If the shoe was on the other foot and NWM got concussed from a bump then we would be calling for a suspension exactly like the hawks board was about paddy

On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app

You come on here calling us all delusional how mature is that?
Incorrect. Those aren’t facts those are opinions.
Paddy did a screen not a bump. Day runs into him.
Paddy does not contact him high.
Day kept playing for a period of time.

 

[phantom13]

There is nowhere that says being high is relevant except in the severity of the punishment length.
If you choose to bump and the other player is concussed you're gone. Paddy chose to bump and day got concussed. He's gone. I don't personally don't like the way the match review panel operate and assess these things, but according to the rules he was always buggered

On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app

So is the implication that English didnt choose to bump or that the player he bumped wasnt injured? If its that they werent injured then why was Long suspended and McKay wasnt.

The issue isnt really the case in isolation its that there is no consistency in when and how its applied.

By all means suspend Paddy, there contact and someone is concussed but then do it every time.

 

[phantom13]

Lol shut up, very mature.

I'm not worked up at all. I would love paddy to be playing and I don't like that what he did earns a suspension as it seems ridiculous. But the fact is, he bumped and the kid got concussed. If you can't understand that then you're stupid.

If the shoe was on the other foot and NWM got concussed from a bump then we would be calling for a suspension exactly like the hawks board was about paddy

On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app

I suppose thats why there was such a strong contingent of people on here saying the McKay decision was correct last year (which make no mistake, there was)?

 

[MickG88]

It's a giant joke, how do they sit there and say that Paddy gets two weeks for an innocent bump on Day where as Ben Brown

50

Ben Brown

Age

31

Ht

200cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

2.2

5star

D

7.9

2star

K

6.3

3star

HB

1.6

1star

M

3.7

4star

T

0.9

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.2

4star

nearly killed a player in the VFL and gets a week. It's not the fact that Paddy gets suspended but more so that it's not consistent with other times this exact situation has occurred and you get a different outcome/reaction every time. The AFL needs to make its mind up and enforce it at the start of the season, not four weeks in.

 

[PostmanBish]

I suppose thats why there was such a strong contingent of people on here saying the McKay decision was correct last year (which make no mistake, there was)?

And this becomes the point ... is the head protected, or is it only protected if it's not attached to a body wearing red, white and black?

The league is actually tying its own noose right now by its own inconsistencies - they're suspending ONE action based on "potential" to cause injury, while allowing "football actions" to be ticked off even if players are maimed by that action. No wonder the lawyers are gunning for the league ...

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Ahh shit Ratten is out.

Matter of time I guess.

The only sensible solution is to have his picture on the scoreboard

 

[phantom13]

And this becomes the point ... is the head protected, or is it only protected if it's not attached to a body wearing red, white and black?

The league is actually tying its own noose right now by its own inconsistencies - they're suspending ONE action based on "potential" to cause injury, while allowing "football actions" to be ticked off even if players are maimed by that action. No wonder the lawyers are gunning for the league ...

Oh i completely agree i was only pointing out that the fallacy of "if it was (insert saints player) concussed wed be out for blood too". We wouldnt, that was shown last year. Were actually a pretty reasonable group when it comes to comparatives, almost to a fault.

 

[longlivelenny]

You come on here calling us all delusional how mature is that?
Incorrect. Those aren’t facts those are opinions.
Paddy did a screen not a bump. Day runs into him.
Paddy does not contact him high.
Day kept playing for a period of time.

The delusional part relates to people thinking paddy didn't bump. The inconsistencies with the mrp has always been a problem and always probably will.
But if you actually believe that what he did was a screen and not a full fledged bump then you are delusional. You might think I'm an idiot, that's fine, but unlike others I can see past my saints bias.

On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[phantom13]

The delusional part relates to people thinking paddy didn't bump. The inconsistencies with the mrp has always been a problem and always probably will.
But if you actually believe that what he did was a screen and not a full fledged bump then you are delusional. You might think I'm an idiot, that's fine, but unlike others I can see past my saints bias.

On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app

And you seriously think youre the only one looking at this through unbiased eyes?

I said hed get a week and completely comfortable with that being the outcome but the inconsistency is the exact issue. If English didnt bump (or his actions were deemed as not unreasonable) then Paddys shouldnt be either. If the issue is the injury then why have a "potential to cause injury" clause? Why didnt McKay go?

Very very few people are saying Paddy shouldn't be suspended based off the assessment most of us are saying its completely inconsistent with the way its been applied in a number of other cases.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

The delusional part relates to people thinking paddy didn't bump. The inconsistencies with the mrp has always been a problem and always probably will.
But if you actually believe that what he did was a screen and not a full fledged bump then you are delusional. You might think I'm an idiot, that's fine, but unlike others I can see past my saints bias.

On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app

Ahh yes Buckley, Lloyd, purple they love the saints too. They should really see past their bias

 

[Dard Ball Get]

The only sensible solution is to have his picture on the scoreboard

 

[PostmanBish]

The delusional part relates to people thinking paddy didn't bump. The inconsistencies with the mrp has always been a problem and always probably will.
But if you actually believe that what he did was a screen and not a full fledged bump then you are delusional. You might think I'm an idiot, that's fine, but unlike others I can see past my saints bias.

On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app

By that measure, taking away any COUGH "bias", the English "bump" should have been assessed on its "potential to cause injury", and he should have been rubbed out for a week, as Long was, thus sending a message to the rest of the league.

 

[Joffaboy]

How many players did Ratts cuddle on Sunday? Reckon we may have a number who are in doubt.

 

[Ducky Tie]

How many players did Ratts cuddle on Sunday? Reckon we may have a number who are in doubt.

Had the same thought. Checked the replay and the answer is lots haha. Could be an interesting few days to come.

 

[Joffaboy]

The delusional part relates to people thinking paddy didn't bump. The inconsistencies with the mrp has always been a problem and always probably will.
But if you actually believe that what he did was a screen and not a full fledged bump then you are delusional. You might think I'm an idiot, that's fine, but unlike others I can see past my saints bias.

On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app

you are my hero.

 

[my name was taken]

The delusional part relates to people thinking paddy didn't bump. The inconsistencies with the mrp has always been a problem and always probably will.
But if you actually believe that what he did was a screen and not a full fledged bump then you are delusional. You might think I'm an idiot, that's fine, but unlike others I can see past my saints bias.

On Pixel 3 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app

full fledged bump? Making it sound like he's Byron Pickett

 

[FQFjt]

Billings isn't doing 3 weeks in the VFL

One maybe to get some run in the legs

Not sure he's on a huge contract either

If we have a full list to choose from bar Hanners and Coffield I'm not so sure Billings is walking into the team. He isn't exactly in our top 10 players.

From last week's team you would include Higgins, Clark and Jones in place of Windy, Long and Wood (and all would be stiff). Is Billings automatically replacing DMac or NWM? I wouldn't have thought so. And that's without considering whether anyone else at Sandy is pounding down the door.

Of course, chances are someone will be unavailable for whatever reason and this issue doesn't arise.

 

[Hubnester]

Time to stop the bickering and MRP talk in this thread now. Back to the match thanks.

Just got my tickets but getting more and more nervous now. Could be a messy few days for us but a big test of our maturity.

 

[BrutThough]

If we have a full list to choose from bar Hanners and Coffield I'm not so sure Billings is walking into the team. He isn't exactly in our top 10 players.

From last week's team you would include Higgins, Clark and Jones in place of Windy, Long and Wood (and all would be stiff). Is Billings automatically replacing DMac or NWM? I wouldn't have thought so. And that's without considering whether anyone else at Sandy is pounding down the door.

Of course, chances are someone will be unavailable for whatever reason and this issue doesn't arise.

NWM has been looking very promising. But you are either completely overrating his output or have forgotten what a fit Billings is to say JB doesnt play in front of NWM.