I find your comments deeply worrying, I asked what rape ? and you have a problem with that, would you like to tell me who r*ped who ?Ants said:
-
LIVE: Sydney v Brisbane Lions - 2:30PM AEST Sat
Squiggle tips Lions at 61% chance -- What's your tip? -- Ticketing Buy, Sell -- Teams on Thurs »
-
AFLW 2024 - Round 4 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Saints in trouble again
- Thread starter Tigger
- Start date
- Tagged users None
The Fireman said:
There is an allegation of rape. Not enough evidence for beyond reasonable doubt. Victim then takes matter to civil court. Balance of probability.
You ask what rape. What rape do you reckon is being referred to. The one that is alleged by the victim.
Ants said:I'm not sure what I find more worrying here, the complete lack of knowledge about our court/police systems, or the disgusting attitute that as she consented to sex with one, then what happened later was asked for/automatically ok.
What happened later? If you have any further information, please contact the police.
If not you are a hypocrite. You rail against lack of knowledge of our court/police systems, but then disregard the very basis of our judicial system which dates back to Runnymede and the Magna Carta which is the principle of habeous corpis.
There is also the principle of Innocent until PROVEN Guilty in our system. This principle protects you and I and I am happy that i live in a country with such a principle as the basis of our criminal system. From what I have read about this case, nobody was charged with rape, let alone convicted in acourt of law.
Please provide the necessary evidence that this crime was committed, otherwise take your insinuations, and your prejuidices and hypocricies and be gone.
As many have already mentioned - THEY WERE NOT FOUND INNOCENT, NO COURT HAS FOUND THEM "NOT GUILTY".
In our system you are never found innocent. You ARE Innocent until PROVEN guilty. Your ignorance is really quite astounding.
It was decided not to pursue the case by the police. This could be because the police believed they were innocent, OR because they thought they were guilty as hell but wouldn't be able to prove it.
Again you show your ignorance. It is not up to the police to prove a case. It is up to the police in coonjunction with the DPP to decide if there is sufficient evidence for a probable conviction. In the case in point it was obvious to the police there was no way they could PROVE the allegation in a court of law where the burden of proof rest squarely on the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt.
So under our system, the one you and I live under, M&M are guilty on nothing, have not been charged and have certainly not been convicted of any criminal charge. If you dont like this system, go live in France or Cuba or somewhere they have Marshall Law, but dont whinge and complain because you think you have taken the moral high ground on something you know absolutely nothing about.
All your supposition and high horsed theatrics does not give you the moral ascendancy. It just makes you look like an ignorant fool with a pathetic axe to grind.
These comments imply an old fashioned view that if a woman gets in a compromising position, well its her fault, and so if she gets r*ped thats too bad. If, and I repeat, IF she said no, then it doesn't matter what went before, it doesn't matter what she consented to previously, if the man (or woman) continues without consent IT IS RAPE.
Geez, thanks for the lesson on criminal law. Now what happened specifically in this case. After all you carry on like you were looking through the window.
Honestly, regardless of what happened with Milne & Montagna, some of the views expressed here are deeply worrying.
Honestly your incredible hypocricy and astounding ignorance is deeply worrying.
are you following me around Skip?skipper kelly said:
Correct there is an allegation of rape, but seem on here believe a rape took place. I was asking these people what rape they were reffering to , not what allegation of rape. Best you go back and read the posts a bit more carefully.
The rape alleged by the victim doesn't mean it took place.
The Fireman said:
All the same to most people Fireman. Rape , allegation. Same difference.
Same people who are talk back callers on 3AW. Ignorance, stupidity, foolishness, call it what you like, but it permeates our society.
An allegation was made, so, even though there is not the evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law, no charge has ever been laid, no conviction etc, it doesn't matter to these people, they must be guilty.
The mob mentalilty rules because of ignorance, hatred, and prejudice.
The Fireman said:
If thats what you reckon then fine.
The Fireman said:
correct. Just as some on here believe there was no rape. Innocent until proven otherwise. Fair enough. What about a rape victim. Do you assume they are lying until proven otherwise?
The Fireman said:
fair dinkum
The Fireman said:
It also doesnt mean it didnt happen. Its a huge leap of faith to side with the defendants in this matter just because of what football jumper they wear on the weekend.
Seems that way.skipper kelly said:
Are you saying that I belive there was no rape?skipper kelly said:
yepskipper kelly said:
Are you accusing me of that?skipper kelly said:
skipper kelly said:
The saddest thing about this thread is that people are defending the players because they play for the saints and im sure 1 or 2 attacking players for playing for the saintsJoffaboy said:
Must say the saddest thing though is some saints fans comments regarding just about everything here,maybe imagining your sister or mother in the girls shoes might help...btw im not saying players guilty just show some compassion,im sure she loves her name being dragged through the mud on here and everywhere else and is just chasing some cash....i dont think so
The Fireman said:
ah well.
The Fireman said:
You didnt answer the question
newstkildafan
Debutant
- Sep 6, 2005
- 53
- 1
- Other Teams
- St Kilda
Ants said:
whether we like it or not, and I am not judging the girls behaviour, we still live in a society where unfortunately there is a double standard. The boys judged the girls on their own behaviour, ie boys willing to change partners, girls must feel the same. The girls were probably planning for the next date, which was never going to happen in the minds of the boys. Educations is required for all parties boys and girls into the sexual attitudes of the opposite sex. My comment was that the girls need to understand that before placing themselves into a situation whereby they may find themselves victims of assault caused by misunderstanding and the boys needs to understand that just because a girl has agreed to have sex with you that does'nt mean she fancies you mate also.
Joffaboy said:
Stop grandstanding Joffaboy. If you go back halfway through the thread you will see what my opinion of your opinion is.
Are you seriously telling me that there are not people on this forum who are siding with the defendants because of the club they play for.
And if you know fireman personally then maybe you should be having a go at him for some of the crap that he has sprouted.
, Shows a distinct lack of understanding as to victim mentalityThe Fireman said:
The Fireman said:
ditto
The Fireman said:
the question being "Do you assume they are lying until proven otherwise?"skipper kelly said:
Its academic there is no proof either way,but no
now answer my question.
The Fireman said:
You can paint it anyway you like Fireman, but with the comments you have made in this thread your views are quite clear.
You pompous old tart Skip,skipper kelly said:
The alleged victim is bringing this up again and I stated it seems like they are after some money, if you don't think that good for you.
As I have stated before My reference to "it takes 2 to Tango" was in the context of the 2 girls were there sleeping with the 2 players consentually, therefore the situation gets a bit complicated.
Revenge for what? you tell me what the revenge is for know all.
Get off your soap box pal.
yours aren't what is your agenda?skipper kelly said:
I am glad mine are clear what about yours??
once again, would you like to tell us all on here who the victim is?skipper kelly said:
Maybe you should be worrying about your own mentality.
The Fireman said:
Have you sat back for a moment and thought about how hard it is to prove rape beyond a reasonable doubt. Have you sat back and thought, yes maybe she is telling the truth and wants her day in court. This is a possibility but in your eyes she is after some money. Why do you assume that it is about money?
All I can say is if it was a daughter of mine or close friend or whatever relation and someone said to me she is after the money then ........ I would imagine you would react the same as I.
If you truly believe that she is only after the money then I dont believe you have taken into account many other factors that make women report rape.
The Fireman said:
Yes it does make it complicated.
The Fireman said:
Are you seriously asking this question. The woman says she was r*ped. If she is not lying then she wants her day in court. Isnt it obvious.
The matter never got to court,the police decided not to press any charges.So WTF are u talking about?Qsaint said:
The Fireman said:
What are you waffling on about. Your lack of understanding is that you believe, without any evidence to support your belief, that she is after the money.
So she's imagining the violation of being r*ped is she?As males,neither u nor i can understand how a rape affects a womyn.The Fireman said:
have you sat back for a moment and thought that it could actually be possible that the rape claims maybe falsehoods? Thats right Skip this has happened before. so it seems that in your eyes the players are guilty.skipper kelly said:
so you are saying she is telling the truth, great stuff mate, let us all in on the evidence you have uncovered.Bombers 2003 said:
i don't know of any girls that have lied about being r*ped for money (i'm not saying they don't exist). However i do know of 2 girls that have had 'incidences' with high profile sportsmen and have done nothing about it. One was embarassed and didn't want to bring anymore shame to herself and the other one knew the burden of proof would be impossible should it go to court.
Guys in high profile sports do have a tendency to get a little silly and get away with it. So girls have to be aware of this and the public have a responisibility to not treat these guys as angels just b/c they play sport... they're not!
Guys in high profile sports do have a tendency to get a little silly and get away with it. So girls have to be aware of this and the public have a responisibility to not treat these guys as angels just b/c they play sport... they're not!
How much evidence do I need to say to me it seems like she is after the money.skipper kelly said:
The court case has come and gone and a civil case if won will result in a possible monetary pay out. So why is it so unbelievable for me to seem she is after some money?
