Mega Thread Senior Coach Discussion - Neeld v the alternatives

[CTHORANGE]

We need an experienced coach who doesn't believe in the concept 'rebuild', and thinks the best way to improve is to try and win every week. Sounds crazy but perhaps the best way to get good at winning is to try and do it repeatedly, rather than being shielded by the 'rebuild'. Simplistic I know, but I just can't keep copping Neeld coming out before every match and essentially stating we aren't here to win, we are rebuilding, and then after another flogging tell us it is what it is, and that's where we're at.

 

[GHardeman]

We need an experienced coach who doesn't believe in the concept 'rebuild', and thinks the best way to improve is to try and win every week. Sounds crazy but perhaps the best way to get good at winning is to try and do it repeatedly, rather than being shielded by the 'rebuild'. Simplistic I know, but I just can't keep copping Neeld coming out before every match and essentially stating we aren't here to win, we are rebuilding, and then after another flogging tell us it is what it is, and that's where we're at.

This

 

[mrmonkey]

I've noticed in the media that they Blame Neeld for getting rid of experience than realise his mistakes and import these so called duds. Yes he did push out Maloney and Green retired, got rid of Martin Morton and Gysbert. I still don't see the harm in bringing in guys like Byenes and Rodan considering they cost barely anything. But what annoys me is the Media blaming Neeld for McDonald and Bruce getting pushed out. In all fairness there wasn't much leadership when Neeld got there, and Straight away we got Clarke in.

 

[Captain Jack]

I've noticed in the media that they Blame Neeld for getting rid of experience than realise his mistakes and import these so called duds. Yes he did push out Moloney and Green retired, got rid of Martin Morton and Gysberts. I still don't see the harm in bringing in guys like Byrnes and Rodan considering they cost barely anything. But what annoys me is the Media blaming Neeld for McDonald and Bruce getting pushed out. In all fairness there wasn't much leadership when Neeld got there, and Straight away we got Clark in.

Anyway...

I haven't seen them blaming him for the loss of Junior or Bruce, so no idea where that idea comes from.

That said, I think he definitely erred in getting Moloney offside pretty much as soon as he walked in, and I think given his time again he might have taken a more compromised approach to the situation.
Everyone else there... meh.

 

[HankScorpio7]

Anyway...

I haven't seen them blaming him for the loss of Junior or Bruce, so no idea where that idea comes from.

That said, I think he definitely erred in getting Moloney offside pretty much as soon as he walked in, and I think given his time again he might have taken a more compromised approach to the situation.
Everyone else there... meh.

I don't think Moloney was the only person he teed off at. I recall he had a public dig at Watts & maybe a few others. It was pretty poor form really. That stuff is best done constructively behind closed doors instead of making BS public statements. Fair to say another big body & some leadership wouldn't go astray right now.

 

[mrmonkey]

I have defiantly heard McDonald referenced on the radio, but I think its just to push the agenda. Plus I have heard Dwayne Russell bang on about poor drafting, making references to Luke Nolan. That's a bit far. we have drafted poorly in the rebuilding phase but going back to 2001 is a bit far fetched.But yes When Neeld came in we. Lacked leadership hence we have 2 very young captains. I just heard Scott Watters on 360 talking about players like dal Santo and keeping the balance of youth and heart and soul payers. We've been over balancing for a long time. Dean Bailey inherited a list of old gun players with not much youth coming through. So we got too obsessed with youth that we got rid of experience too quickly. Getting rid of Johnstone for Grimes was the right move though.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

I don't think Moloney was the only person he teed off at. I recall he had a public dig at Watts & maybe a few others. It was pretty poor form really. That stuff is best done constructively behind closed doors instead of making BS public statements. Fair to say another big body & some leadership wouldn't go astray right now.

What did he say/do to upset Beamer so much?

Hear a lot of people continually dribbling about this, but I reckon it's complete and utter rubbish.

 

[CTHORANGE]

What did he say/do to upset Beamer so much?

Hear a lot of people continually dribbling about this, but I reckon it's complete and utter rubbish.

I guess it's mainly circumstantial. Moloney loved the club, is best and fairest, and one of our most experienced midfielders. But then early 2012 season his manager goes on the public record stating Moloney won't negotiate until the end of the year and will sound out offers from other clubs. Moloney struggles with form and effort and plays some games for Casey. Melbourne don't offer a contract. Moloney now plays for Brisbane. I'd suggest that's not a probable series of events unless some noses have been put out of joint.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

I guess it's mainly circumstantial. Moloney loved the club, is best and fairest, and one of our most experienced midfielders. But then early 2012 season his manager goes on the public record stating Moloney won't negotiate until the end of the year and will sound out offers from other clubs. Moloney struggles with form and effort and plays some games for Casey. Melbourne don't offer a contract. Moloney now plays for Brisbane. I'd suggest that's not a probable series of events unless some noses have been put out of joint.

Don't argue with any of those points, but none if them answer my question.

More specifically, I'm just interested in knowing why everone just assumes that what put Beamer's nose out of joint was something unreasonable that Neeld said or did? Beamer's cocky, arrogant attitude around the club was well known and I consider it more likely to have been Beamer simply decided that he didn't like being removed from the leadership group (when he probably thought he should have been captain), the new defensive mantra and new coach coming in and stamping his authority on the place. I'm not absolving Neeld, I get the feeling he probably did come in a bit too hot, but I think a lot of people's opinions on Beamer have swung around since last year, due to Neeld basically losing everyone's support.

 

[AFL is Number One]

We need an experienced coach who doesn't believe in the concept 'rebuild', and thinks the best way to improve is to try and win every week. Sounds crazy but perhaps the best way to get good at winning is to try and do it repeatedly, rather than being shielded by the 'rebuild'. Simplistic I know, but I just can't keep copping Neeld coming out before every match and essentially stating we aren't here to win, we are rebuilding, and then after another flogging tell us it is what it is, and that's where we're at.

Great point. I absolutely think that Neeld hides behind the " rebuild" excuse. 70,80,90 and 140 pont thrashing are conveniently blamed on the Rebuild? gimme a break.

If I hear that phrase again..." it is What It Is " ...I swear I"ll put my foot through the tv.

 

[00Stinger]

Anyway...

I haven't seen them blaming him for the loss of Junior or Bruce, so no idea where that idea comes from.

That said, I think he definitely erred in getting Moloney offside pretty much as soon as he walked in, and I think given his time again he might have taken a more compromised approach to the situation.
Everyone else there... meh.

Rivers?

 

[stretcharmstrong]

I think Neeld made it pretty clear that he wanted Rivers to stay. He chose to leave.

 

[Billy Demon]

Correct me if I'm wrong but MFC has not appointed an experienced VFL/AFL coach since Ron Barassi in 1981, or John Northey in 1986 if his year at the Swans in 85 made him experienced when he came to MFC. That means over the last 30 years we have basically gone with untried coaches, most of whom weren't very successful during their 'on the job training'. Obviously a couple of exceptions eg. N Daniher, but overall I'd argue we have been stuffing around with our coaching appointments for the best part of 2 decades. Let's stop the rot. No more rookie coaches - we know we are not good at identifying a future coach in the making. We must go for someone who has done it before - and if the first pick options won't go near us (Roos, Clarkson etc.) then let's not turn our noses up at Williams, Eade or maybe Ayres. We can sit here saying we could do better - but time is running out - MFC needs help. I'm starting to think we need to act right now. Neeld has to immediately make way for a coach who can give us some hope that we can win a game . Some of the rubbish that Neeld has been coming out with in the press conferences is a dead-set insult to all MFC supporters.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

After supporting Neeld strongly, I'm starting to come around to the "something has to change" side, and we simply cannot sack 20 players.

However, I don't see any solutions amongst the available or unavailable, bar Clarkson. I think he is the only one that has the right combo of tactical nous and ability to get the players to follow him, to lead this rabble of a playing group out of the darkness.

I think Roos has the personal skills but not the tactical nous; I think Ratts has the tactical nous but probably not the charisma to fire up the group; I don't know enough about Ayers but know there's a big diff between vfl and afl and I don't know if he'd be capable of commanding the respect of this bunch of sooks.

I think Eade or Choco would get the players on board, but something makes me doubt whether they could take us to the top (although I know right now we'd all settle for the middle, or thereabouts)...

One thing I do know is that any new coach we get needs to be accompanied by a new midfield coach - someone recently retired and universally respected from a winning culture - and a new backline coach (god I wish Wellman was still here).

We're in a dilly of a pickle.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Seriously at a loss with all this. On one hand, I don't want to sack Neeld as he still isn't halfway through his contract. To sack 2 coaches within a couple of years is diabolical. On the other hand, the players clearly aren't playing for him and he has made some horrible decisions. And again, clearly showed he simply cannot pick the right side each week. If true that Frawley, Watts and others want to leave because of him, then we simply must let him go immediately. Then we must move heaven and earth to land a coach who will have the respect of the playing group and can bring the right assisstants to the club. All I know is, that I just don't want to watch us play anymore...

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

What did he say/do to upset Beamer so much?

Hear a lot of people continually dribbling about this, but I reckon it's complete and utter rubbish.

Have it on good authority that in their first meeting Neeld told Beamer he was the easiest player to play against in the AFL and that he wouldn't play the role he'd excelled in until he added strings to his bow, also told him he was out of the leadership group before he'd seen the players on the track properly.

 

[Captain Jack]

Have it on good authority that in their first meeting Neeld told Beamer he was the easiest player to play against in the AFL and that he wouldn't play the role he'd excelled in until he added strings to his bow, also told him he was out of the leadership group before he'd seen the players on the track properly.

I do recall that.

Although, hearing that now, surely we should have seen the train wreck coming... he got the wrong bloke! He should have been telling that to Cale Morton all along.

 

[rhaz]

The two journos on Footy Classified seem to think there is a board meeting being held next monday, and Neeld is gone, pending them sorting out the financials of his termination.

 

[Captain Jack]

Does he get QB as his last game then? Surely you don't throw an interim coach into the deep end like that. Although, maybe the New Coach Factor combined with the Queen's Birthday Big Stage Factor and the Collingwood Aren't Very Good Factor to produce a close game at least?

 

[rhaz]

Even he goes, our players are still shit

 

[Jamurp]

Even if Neeld is sacked, no doubt we'll get another un-tried coach, and more crap about a "re-build".

 

[LeverPuller]

Have it on good authority that in their first meeting Neeld told Beamer he was the easiest player to play against in the AFL and that he wouldn't play the role he'd excelled in until he added strings to his bow, also told him he was out of the leadership group before he'd seen the players on the track properly.

Heard this as well from people in the know - paraphrasing, but the long and short was he walked in and pissed everyone off.

At some point when we are hearing the same things as different people there has to be a grain of truth.

 

[RedLegs#5]

After supporting Neeld strongly, I'm starting to come around to the "something has to change" side, and we simply cannot sack 20 players.

However, I don't see any solutions amongst the available or unavailable, bar Clarkson. I think he is the only one that has the right combo of tactical nous and ability to get the players to follow him, to lead this rabble of a playing group out of the darkness.

I think Roos has the personal skills but not the tactical nous; I think Ratts has the tactical nous but probably not the charisma to fire up the group; I don't know enough about Ayers but know there's a big diff between vfl and afl and I don't know if he'd be capable of commanding the respect of this bunch of sooks.

I think Eade or Choco would get the players on board, but something makes me doubt whether they could take us to the top (although I know right now we'd all settle for the middle, or thereabouts)...

One thing I do know is that any new coach we get needs to be accompanied by a new midfield coach - someone recently retired and universally respected from a winning culture - and a new backline coach (god I wish Wellman was still here).

We're in a dilly of a pickle.

Agreed with pretty much everything here. Would take Roos though. Would prefer Clarkson. Will probably get neither. Fight for them Melbourne/AFL/someone! Can't afford for things to go awry again.

P.S. For those sticking up for 'Beamer', sorry, but I gotta side with Neeld on this one. Despite the fact he probably went in too hard, too soon, was the right guy at the wrong club etc etc, outside of football, Neeld is an intelligent and more often than not objective human being. I've heard Moloney speak many times and am convinced, like most football players, he has half a brain. His ego/lack of intelligence was never going to allow him to accept any sort of dramatic change/new direction...from anyone. And we needed and sadly still need change. Moloney was one of the biggest reasons we had/have a terrible culture. Despite the crap he says (in fairness, and sadly, I think he actually believes in what he's saying), Moloney puts himself first and foremost. You can't win premierships with players like that...especially senior players. Sadly his bad attitude would have infected others too (and probably still does).

 

[wowlace]

No amount of money will get Clarkson to coach us. Hawks are flying, I don't know why his name gets mentioned.

 

[Topkent]

I've been slowly thinking about Brett ratten an his potential , he nearly took a carlton side without a forward an nearly took them to a top 4 spot .. He developed really good midfields and he will be way better for the experience of having coached, Paul Roos is dreamland stuff.. He coached the side he played for and left when he thought they would have to regenerate .. Good coach but he won't want to come to Melbourne .. I'd say Brett ratten , Rodney eade and Gary ayres are the front runners , blokes who still have something to prove , he'll even Matty knights is probably a show