No Oppo Supporters St.Kilda sack Brett Ratten

[George]

I just want the best coach.

Ratten came from the system out of a winning environment.

Ratten's first head coaching gig was at the Blues and he got sacked, it wasn't going to work with him.

 

[phantom13]

No doubt it’s a worry.

I reckon a good guide on that it can be turned around is Scott and the Cats this year.

Cats had been thereabouts for years. Good side defensively but their chipping possession style got found out in finals. Many Cats fans wanted Scott gone (I know as my Dad is a mad Cats fan), saying he’d never adapt, like many say about Lyon.

Scott, finally, changed it up and their kicking went more direct/forward rather than obsessing about possession. Hey presto, they win that elusive flag.

Surely Enright, Ross and others keeping tabs on the Cats and the way they won this year will see that ball movement under pressure is key to winning flags nowadays and develop a plan accordingly.

With Ross though, at least you go in supremely confident that we will get the defense and pressure spot on which is another bedrock for a successful flag push.

I’m happy hiring him again and going in with eyes wide open saying to him “keep that defensive template you have, but make sure you put a better ball movement element into it.”

Wouldn’t you check that last para before hiring him?
If he’s adamant that his defensive style will hold up and ball movement and scoring isn’t our key that probably red flags him.

Process, review, analyze.

Don’t have that convo after he’s appointed.

 

[gringo2011]

Our issue is that was 10 years ago. All the best clubs now have moved past his style. Him being able to develop a modern day gameplan is a question we will only know the answer to if he's appointed. That's a worry.

Has it though? I think he was ahead of his time, he's almost back in fashion. We weren't a low scoring team under him unless we played sides like Sydney that locked down. He was systems based and a structure coach over free wheeling attack, but he was pretty much Melbourne.

To me it's not his style that won't work, it's just if we are good enough in a competition with sides that also play that way or if chaos ball defeats it.

 

[phantom13]

That’s not what I’m talking about at all though so again we are talking about two different things and you continue to misinterpret me .. not sure what you aren’t understanding I’ve repeated myself consistently my point is aimed at the ones saying we shouldn’t look at him and that he’s no good because he hasn’t won a flag

I’ve said already I don’t know whether he can still do it or not or if he’s the right fit right now I’m not sure but I’ll go with it if that’s what we do

Apologies, a lot of convos going on.

I’m not saying he’s not good cause he hasn’t won a flag, we’d be insane if he wasn’t on the list of candidates.

 

[stavro#4]

RTB?

Job is his if he wants it.

Apparently he does.

 

[Big Jack14]

McEvoy for a big ruck was given plenty of games. Steven had bad op for the first 2 years at the club. Lynch was terribly unfit back then. His fault. Cripps played many games. Hutchins wasn’t ready. Stanley played a few for a big guy. That isn’t really much depth.

was for other premiership sides. unlike ours

 

[George]

No doubt it’s a worry.

I reckon a good guide on that it can be turned around is Scott and the Cats this year.

Cats had been thereabouts for years. Good side defensively but their chipping possession style got found out in finals. Many Cats fans wanted Scott gone (I know as my Dad is a mad Cats fan), saying he’d never adapt, like many say about Lyon.

Scott, finally, changed it up and their kicking went more direct/forward rather than obsessing about possession. Hey presto, they win that elusive flag.

Surely Enright, Ross and others keeping tabs on the Cats and the way they won this year will see that ball movement under pressure is key to winning flags nowadays and develop a plan accordingly.

With Ross though, at least you go in supremely confident that we will get the defense and pressure spot on which is another bedrock for a successful flag push.

I’m happy hiring him again and going in with eyes wide open saying to him “keep that defensive template you have, but make sure you put a better ball movement element into it.”

Ultimately my argument is that Scott for instance won a premiership as an untried coach. So did Clarkson, Hardwick, Longmire, Simpson, Beveridge...the chance that you land a game changer is far greater if you go in untried than if you go with someone who's done it before.

I'm okay with Ross coming on provided that we simply MUST have a process in place to develop an assistant while he is there and then look for that assistant to take over from him when it goes **** up. If we don't I feel like we're wasting our time.

 

[Plugger35]

We also wont know if any other coaches game plan is going to be any good until they start so he's in exactly the same boat as the rest of them.

He is a very good footy brain though and I doubt he rolls out the same game plan he did in 2009.

Whether his new ideas will be any good or not we don't know, but what we do know is he's a ruthless operator that knows how to get the best out of his players.

Ross still looked tactically sharp when he was dissecting games on Footy Classified, compared to Lloyd anyone of us would look tactically sharp though.

 

[Ceanag]

As long as it’s not Hird… just kill me now if that happens.

 

[bird_man]

We can put a process in place to minimize the risk of getting a spud.

That’s the whole point.

Ok. I never mentioned anything about not going through a process.

Plenty of have gone through the process and ended up with a dud coach though.

 

[MrFoster]

History was against the Dogs in 2016, history is a guide not a rule. It feels like a huge wave of energy has landed at the place over the last few days. The whole place was safe and comfortable for years, someone has just ripped the curtains open, put some Pantera on max volume and started kicking the place awake. The club has been on mogadon for the last decade, this just ramped s**t up. I don't even care if it fails, at least we are moving and trying something.

Exactly, what we did in the last 10 years isn’t working (Richo/Ratten), there’s so much in common between their game style or lack there of is not funny. So why not try something different.. Yes, you can get a untried coach, but Richo was an untried coach, and he was putrid.. we have no idea if Lappin or Uze will be successes, so why not go with an experienced head and one with a ruthless streak and demand high standards.. Ratten talks a good game, and promised kicking skills when getting appointed, but he could not put a game plan that fosters good kicking, rather making good kicks into terrible kicks (Hill, and most of our players).

 

[phantom13]

Kinda like getting smacked at the footy because someone recognised you from bigfooty?

In future, don’t throw stones when you live in a glass house.

This is real shit. Real trash posting.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Wouldn’t you check that last para before hiring him?
If he’s adamant that his defensive style will hold up and ball movement and scoring isn’t our key that probably red flags him.

Process, review, analyze.

Don’t have that convo after he’s appointed.

For sure, and I’m presuming those in charge at the club would have done/are doing just that.

For me Lyon is low risk as at the bare minimum you know you’ll get a good motivator and orator that sets defensive standards. Even if he comes in and only improves that, it’s a massive improvement on where we are/were.

If he and his assistants are able to get the ball moving on top of the above? We win a Premiership.

For me, hiring him is a risk worth taking.

But people are kidding themselves if they don’t see it’s a risk.

That’s life and sport and one of the reasons we love it.

 

[Sippa]

Thing I like the most about what Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

did was hearing the story how at the start of pre season he got all the coaching staff in the room and said right forget what you know about what we have done previously , nothings off the table we are coming up with something completely new

Collaboration at its finest and look what it achieved .. I would hope whoever coaches us does something similar

 

[stavro#4]

This is real s**t. Real trash posting.

No, trash posting is calling someone a liar without knowledge.

This is me making it clear not to throw stones when you have your own skeletons.

 

[gringo2011]

It's reckless to just want change for the sake of change. Beveridge was untried when he won that 2016 premiership. History was against the Dogs because they hadn't won a premiership in 50 years, not because they signed a guy who hadn't been in the system for 3 years.

I think we've seen enough of untried coaching winning premierships to know that it's probably the best way forward.

Came from outside the top 4.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Kinda like getting smacked at the footy because someone recognised you from bigfooty?

In future, don’t throw stones when you live in a glass house.

 

[George]

Kinda like getting smacked at the footy because someone recognised you from bigfooty?

In future, don’t throw stones when you live in a glass house.

I think you might want to redirect your comments to the poster who was actually having the argument with him.

I've been actively trying to do better and avoid arguments on here for a few months now, even mend some relationships if possible. It's a shame that I have to put up with those kinds of comments, but each to their own. You do you.

 

[phantom13]

Ross still looked tactically sharp when he was dissecting games on Footy Classified, compared to Lloyd anyone of us would look tactically sharp though.

Also not hard doing it on a Sunday morning/Monday night with a bunch of producers chopping up some vision to illustrate the point. Sometimes Lloyd and Cornes manage to look insightful when I’m hungover.

He’s sharp and astute as an observer and he was a great coach. Is he still both of those things combined. No one can really answer that here.

 

[triggering bro]

As long as it’s not Hird… just kill me now if that happens.

There’s a vacancy for a forward line assistant coach…

 

[George]

Has it though? I think he was ahead of his time, he's almost back in fashion. We weren't a low scoring team under him unless we played sides like Sydney that locked down. He was systems based and a structure coach over free wheeling attack, but he was pretty much Melbourne.

To me it's not his style that won't work, it's just if we are good enough in a competition with sides that also play that way or if chaos ball defeats it.

Hard to say if it'll work until he's appointed of course but I'm not necessarily against it provided we are developing people underneath him. It would be some fairytale to see him come back and win a flag with us, would want nothing more I just think there's better options out there that we should (and hopefully have) chased.

 

[Sully111]

The only difference in our faith is that I don't believe in him enough to say he'll win a flag here.

No doubt he will improve us and we will do better, not much required to improve on a side that was 3-8 in the second half of last season but irrespective I think we will play more consistent football and not crumble like we have under Richardson and Ratten.

Ross to me is a good placeholder for somebody else. I very much doubt he is getting us to a flag so we either need a succession plan to someone untried who historically has a better chance at winning a premiership or IMO we are wasting our time.

Everything that people are vouching for in regards to Ross, we can get the same from an untried coach. If it were out of Lappin or Lyon I would take Lappin in a heart-beat. From a present day system and come from elite, ruthless environments as a player and coach.

I understand your reservations

Me? I'm in party mode

So f*cking happy right now.

I'll take it while it lasts.

 

[phantom13]

No, trash posting is calling someone a liar without knowledge.

This is me making it clear not to throw stones when you have your own skeletons.

No taking potshots at someone who dedicates time to a forum so we can all discuss our footy club who was assaulted at the footy is trash.

I don’t always agree with George and have had some knock down drag out arguments with him but he’s a living breathing person amd this, what you did, is shit.

Be better, you deserve a ban for that.

 

[George]

I understand your reservations

Me? I'm in party mode

So f*cking happy right now.

I'll take it while it lasts.

Haha I'm excited too, but I'm also worried. This club has stuffed 2 coaching gigs in a row. I just hope we have people there now who will actually make good decisions. I trust we do but you don't know until you know...

 

[bird_man]

Ratten's first head coaching gig was at the Blues and he got sacked, it wasn't going to work with him.

Ok

Plenty of other coaches have come from a winning environment as an assistant and turned out to be no good

Lyon has been watching footy closely and analysing through the media. Im not sure there's too much he would have missed in his time out of thr game