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That's not all it is. We were brilliant at running both ways in 2022 and came to a worse result.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Media Swans Talk in the Media 2024
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Our club in the Media
- Apr 26, 2016
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Not sure I agree with the bolded at all. Been a very long time since a Swans team has been brilliant both ways.
JackHiscoxWasFast
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Article in smh saying the real swans fan experience is to scramble for tickets, pay a fortune for flights then see them get trounced in a grand final by half time. Sad, but true.
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JHWF is not feeling positive. Now the weekend's result is really starting to feel real
JackHiscoxWasFast
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Was always optimistic this year as I thought they’d learned and were ready for a full pressure effort. Those were the signals I was getting.JHWF is not feeling positive. Now the weekend's result is really starting to feel real
Until we all saw what unfolded.
To allow an uncontested game after Clarko did this to us for a decade is unforgiveable, as is the bruise free mentality. Now I read “this game won’t define us crap.”
Literally everything went our way this year as well.
It’s not the losing (Lions we’re great) but the way in which we lost that demands a cleanout. The worry is the board down are happy to make finals and keep the membership up with flags a secondary measure.
How can you ever trust this evolution of the team again ?
‘One game won’t define us’: Swans search for a silver lining
As hard as it was to look at the bigger picture after the grand final, Robbie Fox believes Sydney made advancements in 2024.www.smh.com.au
........
“ Throughout the finals series, we did a lot of work with Emma Murray. We were like, ‘One game won’t define us.’ This was four weeks ago and we just had this mentality.
“We would like to win a grand final, but it won’t define us. You always have to take those learnings, and hopefully, everyone believes that good things are coming. It wasn’t this year, but hopefully, it’s in the years to come.”
When I read this article this morning, alarm bells were ringing. That one game WILL define them. Actually the two GF games will define them. That's all the team is going to be remembered for. And what happens when they next make a GF?
The Swans team that we know and love would fight until the end. We used to play in classic grand finals...now we play in stinkers.
I just can't understand how the players couldn't bring the intensity and pressure in a grand final. This is what they play for. Surely they would be hungry and desperate. The scary thing is that it wasn't just one or 2 players...it was 95% of the team.
This loss shouldn't be glossed over by the club just because they made the GF. It needs to hurt like hell!
- Apr 26, 2016
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It's the worst loss yet for me, for sure. Single digit margin at QT as well, so it's not like we weren't in the game or didn't have opportunities to settle and get things on our terms.
I think we deserve to get torn to shreds over it in the media tbh.
JackHiscoxWasFast
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Hard to disagree or defend what gets thrown our way this year - even from the main board lol.
SM
Bigfooty Legend
Lions also missed a ton of chances early that should have been a wake up call.
Jewelsbon
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To simply look at the score, it was an improvement on 14 and 22, but we all know that in reality, that was 100 points+ loss. The Lions misses and the fact they virtually stopped playing the last ten minutes are the only things that make the score line look as reasonable as it does.
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A lot of our guys actually looked half good in the fourth quarter, when the game was decided and Brisbane players and staff were already celebrating on the bench.
Florent had 9 touches and 3 score involvements.
Parker had 3 goals and nearly doubled his total touches for the day in that quarter.
Gulden had 9 touches. Warner 8 touches and a goal, 200+ metres gained.
Lloyd 9 possessions. Fox 8 possessions.
And whaddoyaknow, we won the quarter, 4.2 to 2.1.
If I am being totally honest, that pisses me off even more. A real stinker of a day that gets worse and worse as the result is sealed, yeah OK that's tough but fair. But suddenly finding the balls and the composure to remember how to play once your opposition's put the cue in the rack and you've blown the chance? Yeah, not interested. And makes it arguably more insulting to us fans.
With respect this is GD
- Apr 26, 2016
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Good Discussion I know, it's helped me cope with the result
Not sure whether this should be in here or its own thread but ties into the Robbie Fox interview and a few of the players interviews before and after the game. Long post.
The 'one game won't define us' chat is either being misrepresented by the players or they're missing a key component of it (whether through delivery from the players to the media, or the coaches to them).
The same messaging I and schools/intervention programs etc have used both with at risk teenagers speaking about traumatic experiences, mistakes in judgement or with high achieving students when focussing on ATAR results/End of Schooling Exams.
"‘One game won’t define us.’ This was four weeks ago, and we just had this mentality."
This is a great way to cope with failure and setbacks- it is a great way to prepare people for results going against them/outside their control. ATAR results won't define you- error in judgement/mistake/one action won't define you. This is a great way of making people be able to cope with failure- however, it doesn't prevent failure/take a proactive mindset to success either.
“We would like to win a grand final, but it won’t define us. You always have to take those learnings, and hopefully, everyone believes that good things are coming. It wasn’t this year, but hopefully, it’s in the years to come."
This is completely off. The athletes are looking at a grand final and performance as something outside of their control on the day. They are looking at it as they have done all the work and then what happens on the day happens- this is not right at all. It isn't 'Hopefully' good things are coming- good things ARE coming because the work has been done, because on the day the athletes are the best prepared, they can be and now it is the time to put everything into practice. They should be excited on the day to perform, to work hard to implement their work because they've done the work. They aren't hopeful things will work out- things WILL work out because of the things they can and have controlled (if they fail you then talk about losses not defining you.)
E.G Students complete all the study/work, teenager goes through all the mindfulness/rehabilitation and a big event comes up- you believe that you're capable of delivering on the day/achieving because of the work you have done- but you still do the work. You still dissect the question, highlight key cognitive verbs, plan out answers with the same structure etc. You don't just turn up and whatever happens- happens.
"We had such a good year to put ourselves in this position, and then it’s just that cherry on top. "
Concerning from an AFL perspective. The Grand Final is not the cherry on top- the Grand Final is the prize and the result. The study/training/other games aren't the cake- THIS is the cake. (Brownlow, All Australian, Norm Smith is the Cherry for players).
Same as 'appreciating the enormity of the week' was good and not burning energy- but it'd be good to hear the players talk about the 'enormity of the game'. The Grand Final parade isn't the thing to burn energy on or the enormous event- the game is the enormous part of the week.
I think the work they have done with open discussions/communications/check ins with each other during the game is great- shows players are able to express themselves on the field and the team remains connected. What is concerning is that it certainly looks like the players aren't communicating with each other the importance of the grand final to them. OR the importance of the grand final from the staff/club/fans etc. The players aren't going to be desperate on Grand Final Day if they believe that it is the cherry on top, it is not a season defining day and that it is something that they simply 'hope' comes together on the day. I get they're doing this to alleviate the sting of failure and to help players cope with 2022 (and now 2024) but all they're doing is undermining competitive fire of some of the players.
The team needs to be confident they've done the work to get here, know they've got a team of players they can be open with, that the players and coaches have all been honest about how much this game means to them and then go out and show how much the game means. It is healthy to be nervous, it is healthy to care, and it is healthy to understand that it is not just another game. It is healthy to be upset/angry/disappointed when you lose. It is healthy to be happy when you win- you're defined by the many actions you make, the biggest defining action for an AFL team is performing when it matters. THIS matters to them.
If they lose and they gave everything- they aren't defined as losers, and it doesn't define them. If they go out there- are defeatist and believe things are out of their control, then it absolutely defines them and is completely damning.
"The funny thing is, we actually started well for once. I don't think we could have prepped any better, mentally we went into the game great, physically as well…the footy gods had something else to say," Warner said.
Maybe a lot of it just comes down to players emotional/not articulating themselves and the messaging properly in the media- but there's quite a few quotes from players which just seem to be a serious disconnect. The way I've worked with young adults and adolescents in approaching failure, key tests and pressure situations seems to have far higher expectation on internal locus of control, understanding why they want something and expectation of performance than in a professional sporting team.
Edit: Just to clarify from what I've seen of Emma Murray she seems great (imperfects podcast, other athlete testimonials). I just wonder have we put enough time into this for it to be effective (as it has for other athletes/sporting clubs). Have we done enough focus on big games/important moments? You'd think this would be big priority next year if the club continues to go down this route.
The 'one game won't define us' chat is either being misrepresented by the players or they're missing a key component of it (whether through delivery from the players to the media, or the coaches to them).
The same messaging I and schools/intervention programs etc have used both with at risk teenagers speaking about traumatic experiences, mistakes in judgement or with high achieving students when focussing on ATAR results/End of Schooling Exams.
"‘One game won’t define us.’ This was four weeks ago, and we just had this mentality."
This is a great way to cope with failure and setbacks- it is a great way to prepare people for results going against them/outside their control. ATAR results won't define you- error in judgement/mistake/one action won't define you. This is a great way of making people be able to cope with failure- however, it doesn't prevent failure/take a proactive mindset to success either.
“We would like to win a grand final, but it won’t define us. You always have to take those learnings, and hopefully, everyone believes that good things are coming. It wasn’t this year, but hopefully, it’s in the years to come."
This is completely off. The athletes are looking at a grand final and performance as something outside of their control on the day. They are looking at it as they have done all the work and then what happens on the day happens- this is not right at all. It isn't 'Hopefully' good things are coming- good things ARE coming because the work has been done, because on the day the athletes are the best prepared, they can be and now it is the time to put everything into practice. They should be excited on the day to perform, to work hard to implement their work because they've done the work. They aren't hopeful things will work out- things WILL work out because of the things they can and have controlled (if they fail you then talk about losses not defining you.)
E.G Students complete all the study/work, teenager goes through all the mindfulness/rehabilitation and a big event comes up- you believe that you're capable of delivering on the day/achieving because of the work you have done- but you still do the work. You still dissect the question, highlight key cognitive verbs, plan out answers with the same structure etc. You don't just turn up and whatever happens- happens.
"We had such a good year to put ourselves in this position, and then it’s just that cherry on top. "
Concerning from an AFL perspective. The Grand Final is not the cherry on top- the Grand Final is the prize and the result. The study/training/other games aren't the cake- THIS is the cake. (Brownlow, All Australian, Norm Smith is the Cherry for players).
Same as 'appreciating the enormity of the week' was good and not burning energy- but it'd be good to hear the players talk about the 'enormity of the game'. The Grand Final parade isn't the thing to burn energy on or the enormous event- the game is the enormous part of the week.
I think the work they have done with open discussions/communications/check ins with each other during the game is great- shows players are able to express themselves on the field and the team remains connected. What is concerning is that it certainly looks like the players aren't communicating with each other the importance of the grand final to them. OR the importance of the grand final from the staff/club/fans etc. The players aren't going to be desperate on Grand Final Day if they believe that it is the cherry on top, it is not a season defining day and that it is something that they simply 'hope' comes together on the day. I get they're doing this to alleviate the sting of failure and to help players cope with 2022 (and now 2024) but all they're doing is undermining competitive fire of some of the players.
The team needs to be confident they've done the work to get here, know they've got a team of players they can be open with, that the players and coaches have all been honest about how much this game means to them and then go out and show how much the game means. It is healthy to be nervous, it is healthy to care, and it is healthy to understand that it is not just another game. It is healthy to be upset/angry/disappointed when you lose. It is healthy to be happy when you win- you're defined by the many actions you make, the biggest defining action for an AFL team is performing when it matters. THIS matters to them.
If they lose and they gave everything- they aren't defined as losers, and it doesn't define them. If they go out there- are defeatist and believe things are out of their control, then it absolutely defines them and is completely damning.
"The funny thing is, we actually started well for once. I don't think we could have prepped any better, mentally we went into the game great, physically as well…the footy gods had something else to say," Warner said.
Maybe a lot of it just comes down to players emotional/not articulating themselves and the messaging properly in the media- but there's quite a few quotes from players which just seem to be a serious disconnect. The way I've worked with young adults and adolescents in approaching failure, key tests and pressure situations seems to have far higher expectation on internal locus of control, understanding why they want something and expectation of performance than in a professional sporting team.
Edit: Just to clarify from what I've seen of Emma Murray she seems great (imperfects podcast, other athlete testimonials). I just wonder have we put enough time into this for it to be effective (as it has for other athletes/sporting clubs). Have we done enough focus on big games/important moments? You'd think this would be big priority next year if the club continues to go down this route.
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The King!
Chosen One
Good article
We lost with better tall forwards than these 3 too.
I think some of it's on them for sure but a lot on forward setup and structure as well.
SM
Bigfooty Legend
This notion of three tall forwards is a bit silly though since I don't think we ever play with all 3 of them up there at once. McLean is more a back up ruck who rests forward.
Made a few very good points. And mentioned if anyone was going to embody the bloods culture its Taylor Adams. We definitely need to adjust our mix and identity moving into next year. We don't have many mature types, so i think Adams needs to be incorporated in that regardless of his deficiencies.
On another note, Bucks would be a great coach for this team imo.
Wheresbuddy
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SM
Bigfooty Legend
Thing is, Saturday gave vibes of the Port 112 game - we felt like we had less players than them and they had so much space everywhere. But then with a pretty similar line up we then smashed Port in the PF, so it's not a personnel thing - I don't think.
Agree with what you've said there. I imagine the work you've done with youth is centered around the uncertainty of heading into exams, not knowing if they've prepared correctly and being unsure what to expect when they sit down for exams. And the anxiety that comes with the uncertainty, so the messaging would be about calming their nerves because that's how they'll perform at their best.
The messaging for an elite sports team is almost contrary to that. It's that they've played all season. And won their way through to the grand final and all the work they did in the pre season, in the gym, on the track, throughout the finals, was to put themselves in this position. And the team lined up against them is in the same exact situation.
It is the team that wants it more at that stage. The team where every player is willing to put it all out there. In EVERY contest, in EVERY moment. It's instilling in the team that they have done all the hard work over the entire season to put themselves in this position, and that it's what happens next that DOES define you. And that if they want it bad enough, they'll take it.
It's the internal locus of control that's missing. The comments from players were verging on excuses. That they'd prepared well and are at a loss as to what happened.
The opposition wanted it more, and they were prepared to give more on the day. And it's as simple as that.
THAT is the constant over the last 4 grand final losses (2016 being slightly different). Our opponents came in with intent, they bullied us, and we were not prepared to do the hard stuff.
I dont know who approved Emma's messaging, or if the club had any input, but I'd be looking to the hardest players in the side to drive our standards moving forward. The players who keep moving forward and putting in effort despite what their teammates are doing, despite what the scoreboard says. We need players from within thw group driving thw standards and pushing the group outside of their comfort zone.
Jordan bullied underperforming teammates.
Kobe Bryant famously had a falling out with Shaq over his poor training standards.
These players pushed their teammates to get the very best out of them. They led by example and made sure that the passengers were cast off to the side.
Mike Tyson said he'd stare into his opponents eyes before a fight and as soon as his opponent looked away he already knew he'd won the fight.
These are the examples you look to in elite sports. Not focusing on how the parade will effect your mindset.
The parade is for the fans, you smile and wave for the fans, show them that their support is appreciated. But your job starts when the ball is bounced, and doesn't end until the final siren goes.
The Mares Leg
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We suffered from a lack of flexibiity in the backs as well - when it was clear Rampe wasn’t good enough, Mills would have been the ideal go to - or Fox to Lohmann , Rampe to Ahchee , Mills to Rayner, Cunningham to Cameron.
We lacked that one extra experienced mid which would allow the coaches to shuffle the cards.
