Autopsy Sydney Legacy in Grand Finals continues 10 goal loss to the Lions

[GoTheSwannies]

Seriously, what business does a psychologist have setting the mentality of the players. Wtf. Who allowed that to happen? Shocking

 

[The King!]

,

Not sure if this is an appropriate thread for it, but I'm travelling with work, cooped up in a hotel & bored .... so here's DQ's exec summary of our player's season.

Apologies in advance if its tainted by some residual GF frustration.

1. Chad brilliant at times, infuriating at times. Some match winning efforts, coupled with some games that left you wondering if he's actually trying. Appears nearly inevitable that he's goneski - whether this season or next. Best we can hope for - a straight swap for Serong. The worst - band 1 compo that lands at around pick 5 & we all know how that'll pan out.

2. McLean once again took some strong contested marks. Unfortunately, they tend to all be 80m from goal. Should be nearing the peak of his powers, but isn't going to get any faster or more agile. Tireless, durable and did some handy work in the ruck. Due to his athletic profile, may have reached his ceiling. Hope I'm wrong, but on this one, I reckon I'm right.

3. Adams Craig McRae considered him to be a half-forward. Seems the cagey bugger was right. Had some strong performances early in the season, but faded dramatically. Gave Collingwood a fair spray after he left & one has to wonder how he feels about his new employer.

4. Brodie G At one stage looked to be the recruit of the decade, as the Swans carved up hapless opponents pre-bye. Performances later in the season became more erratic, not helped by being the most heavily penalised player in the AFL (thanks Stevic & co). Opposition teams seemed to learn how to negate his impact by grappling in the ruck contest. Got rag-dolled in the GF in a manner that brought back nightmares of Ruck Jesus circa 2022.

5. Heeney Brilliant season by a brilliant player. Just needs ankle transplants in the off-season.

6. Logan Encouraging in some respects, concerning in others. Great ability to get around the ground and was also used as a swing-man from time-to-time. But will he ultimately be able to take a pack mark? That, dear reader, remains the great unknown - because there's only ever been one player who reached great heights without much ability to take a contested grab. And he retired last season.

7. Harry C A fine season. The amazing thing with Harry is that when you don't notice him, he's usually had a great game. And there were plenty of times I didn't notice him. Until the GF - where 100,000 spectators noticed his opponent, but Harry was nowhere to be seen.

8. Rowy For those who live on a rural property, you'd just love to have a working dog like Rowy.

9. Hayward Its a shame Grand Uncle Horace didn't get to formally withdraw his "Wayward" tag - because Will was remarkably reliable around goal this year. Won plenty of HTB frees with his uncanny ability to chase down unsuspecting opponents from behind. Must be the stealthiest mover in history. Twitter posts continue to offer some of the most insightful thoughts on the internet.

10. Francis I reckon Francis gets the rough end of the pineapple here sometimes. He's actually a pretty strong spoiler and can take a mark. Unfortunately, he looks like he's running in treacle & hence often doesn't quite get to where he's going in time. Thats a problem.

11. Papley Always entertaining, until he got to the GF - whereupon his form of entertainment was more Tina Arena than Katy Perry.

12. Gus Please don't get hurt next year. Please. And don't you dare consider being part of a package-deal trade with the Chad. Our best performer on GF day. Which is depressing.

13. Ollie F Another who I reckon gets underrated in these here parts. An elusive runner off half-back and was a major contributor to the Swans finishing atop the table. And I reckon Sydney Sweeney kinda liked him too.

14. Mills Just forget 2024 ever happened Callum. Like the rest of us are trying to do.

15. Wicks Had an underwhelming season and there's real doubt over his standing within the playing group, given the circumstances around the off-field drama remain shrouded in mystery.

16. Campbell FINALLY got shifted out of the back pocket (halleluiah!) and showed glimpses of what we all hope he's capable of. Will 2025 finally be the year we all sit back and say "wow, this bloke is really good"? ... I reckon it might be. If Horse (or whoever our senior coach might be) can resist the urge to banish him back in the defensive abyss.

17. JJ Unfortunately, couldn't shut down 22 opponents in the GF. Shame. Because none of his teammates managed to shut down even their direct opponent, so JJ got pinballed around, with a match-up on just about every Lions player on the park. Glad you're a Swan JJ!

21. Errol Another terrific season, with some divine kicking that, on occasion, made you sit back in awe & wonder if he is indeed a footballing deity. Alas, his season will be partly remembered for some shocking footage in the GF of him deciding to just let his opponent do whatever they liked. Can Errol learn to be accountable when required? Here's hoping he can.

22. The Lizard A deserved AA season - if we don't have the Lizard, we don't finish minor premier. Incredibly fun to watch & if he has the odd brain-explosion that'd make LRT proud, so be it.

24. Sir Dane I was among those calling for a statue of Sir Dane to be installed outside the SCG (complete with the obligatory surrounding chain-link fence & a cigarette vending machine next to it). I reckon its still deserved - but I sense it might be time to spend a bit of time mentoring the next generation in the 2's. Scurrilous rumour starting to emerge that his magnificent, gravity-defying hair may in fact be a toupee.

26. Parker I can't imagine how frustrated this great warrior and champion of the club must have been at times this year. But at no stage did he sulk, have a whinge, or do anything to tarnish his legacy. Legend of the Swans & will always be a premiership player, even if he does end his career playing for a basket-case club in Victoria.

27. McI So many people in my (Perth) office commented that "gee that number 27, whats his name, McIlroy or something ... he's good isn't he!?". And yes, he is good. Very good. If he's running on two functioning knees. Which I don't think he was in the later stages of the season.

29. Hamling Gets a mention here purely because he's a premiership defender that we've somehow turned into a mediocre VFL standard forward. Nice one.

30. Tommy Mac Entered whipping boy territory late in the season, largely due to some comical mix-ups with Melican. Mix-ups that left me wondering if they need to get some Benny Hill music cued-up at the SCG. But easy to forget some of the mighty performances he put in through the season. Remains just about our most important Swan.

33. Cleary Exciting prospect. Showed what a real pressure forward can do for the side when introduced at AFL level. And he's not even a pressure forward. Here's hoping he's named come round 1 2025.

34. Roberts May not have enormous speed or athletic traits, but really impressed with his footy smarts and powerful kick. Had a bit of a GF stinker, but so did all his mates. Strongly built, will continue to improve and one of the real success stories of 2024.

36. Armatey Yes, I know, he kicked 9 in a game. But in my view - that was divine intervention. Karma for Judas' betrayal. Expect to see Lloyd kick 9 against the Crows next year, as Karma isn't a 1-year deal. A gifted athlete & can be exciting to watch, but I sometimes reckon if you asked Joel what "chase" means, he'd say its a Griswald.

37. Corey Has speed, skills, and great hair. Just needs to somehow find the Sherrin a bit more.

42. Fox I feel really bad saying this, but if Robbie appears in our "best players list", you kinda know we've lost. And if he's named in our bests in a GF, we've been thrashed. sigh

43. Melican Terrific seeing the Melicopter get through a season with hammies in-tact. A very good season - and thank heavens he did, because he's become incredibly important to our structure.

44. Llllloooooyd Is he a half-back? Is he a winger? I don't know anymore. But he remains one of our most tough, durable, reliable players. Unfortunately found himself matched up on Daniher more times than I can count in the GF .... how on earth it happened, I'll never know. Maybe they were talking moustache waxers?

Good work going through all that, don't agree with them all but appreciate the effort it took.

I am not sure connecting to North (despite being contracted ) mid year and letting it linger in the media because your feelings were hurt your aren't an automatic selection, isn't sulking or dropping the head but each to their own.

it's hard to remove the grand final from any ratings.

But Heeney had one of the best individual seasons I have seen at the club

 

[The King!]

Seriously, what business does a psychologist have setting the mentality of the players. Wtf. Who allowed that to happen? Shocking

If we won its genius though

 

[GoTheSwannies]

If we won its genius though

I can't say I'd agree with that. If we'd won and those quotes came out, I would have thought it was a strange approach to go into a grand final with that mindset.

Similar to the comments players were making in the lead up to the GF around what they'd learned from the last grand final, and they were talking about not getting swept up in the parade and sorting out tickets for family etc.

Just everything about their mentality going into the game was strange. It's like our aim was to try to get their minds off what they were actually there for. And that's to win a grand final at all costs.

It's as if we conceded the players were too mentally fragile to meet the challenge head on and we had to dance around the issue.

 

[Nuggetz]

I can't say I'd agree with that. If we'd won and those quotes came out, I would have thought it was a strange approach to go into a grand final with that mindset.

Similar to the comments players were making in the lead up to the GF around what they'd learned from the last grand final, and they were talking about not getting swept up in the parade and sorting out tickets for family etc.

Just everything about their mentality going into the game was strange. It's like our aim was to try to get their minds off what they were actually there for. And that's to win a grand final at all costs.

It's as if we conceded the players were too mentally fragile to meet the challenge head on and we had to dance around the issue.

I'm pretty sure I heard the Lions say something similar regarding the parade and tickets etc.

The biggest issues for the loss were strategy, selection & inability of basic skill execution.

Everything else was minor imo.

 

[Aardvark]

 

[bedford]

I'd also be looking at the person who hired her, the person who was responsible for ensuring the work she was doing was actually beneficial rather than detrimental. And if there was noone doing that, then the person responsible for overseeing it should take blame.

You lot are unbelievable , she is a superstar and certainly helped Richmond to 3 flags and has a lot to do with Heeney

 

[caesar88]

I won't pretend to know anything about sports psychology but "one game won't define us" is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

The irony being that all it's taken is four games to define us as the biggest chokers in the competition and the club that's wasted an era. Four games is all that stands between Horse's single flag and Horse being a 5x premiership coach.

So yeah I'd say a single game can be extremely important in defining a club.

 

[Jewelsbon]

Apparently on abc Caro and the panel reported Brisbane were fine with the logistics of the grand final, but Sydney complained, questioned and whinged about flights, accommodation, busses etc

I can 100% guarantee you that Caro is spot on.

I have VERY close personal ties with someone who works at AFL house, so close that my husband and I stayed with them last week - so we are talking real close!
Prior to Monday, this person didn't say too much about the different teams, an occasional comment about how easy the Lions are to deal with, the Swans are a little more demanding but that's due to them being very professional.

Monday afternoon was AFL houses version of "mad Monday". They booked out a pub nearby and everyone associated attended. The food and drink ran hot, a good day was had by all and they were all Ubered home afterwards.

My friend had a very big day, consumed copious amounts of red wine and, as alcohol tends to do, loosened their inhibitions and was very chatty.
Basically they started to tell me all about the real behind the scenes of last Friday/Saturday and as a Swans fan, it was hard to listen to.
We apparently complained about virtually everything, we - players and staff, were rude or simply dismissive of those trying to help them. There were apparently auskick kids somewhere near them before the cars left on the parade and most of our boys pretty much ignored them - as opposed to the Lions players, whom to a man - including coaches, hi fived, chattered, signed autographs etc etc.
They went on and on as I squirmed with discomfort on the huge difference behind the scenes between the two squads.

They concluded their story with how Chris Fagan and a few of the Lions operations staff left the celebrations to seek out and thank my friend and other various AFL and MCG staff for their help throughout the week.
The ONLY Swans person that approached anyone to thank them for their help was Josh Kennedy! Not even a Swans staffer!!!

That is a 100% true story. I can't say whom the person is as they are bound by a non disclosure agreement, but they are reasonably high up in the AFL and has no reason (and really was too drunk) to be making up stories.

 

[TheGoatBaron]

I can 100% guarantee you that Caro is spot on.

I have VERY close personal ties with someone who works at AFL house, so close that my husband and I stayed with them last week - so we are talking real close!
Prior to Monday, this person didn't say too much about the different teams, an occasional comment about how easy the Lions are to deal with, the Swans are a little more demanding but that's due to them being very professional.

Monday afternoon was AFL houses version of "mad Monday". They booked out a pub nearby and everyone associated attended. The food and drink ran hot, a good day was had by all and they were all Ubered home afterwards.

My friend had a very big day, consumed copious amounts of red wine and, as alcohol tends to do, loosened their inhibitions and was very chatty.
Basically they started to tell me all about the real behind the scenes of last Friday/Saturday and as a Swans fan, it was hard to listen to.
We apparently complained about virtually everything, we - players and staff, were rude or simply dismissive of those trying to help them. There were apparently auskick kids somewhere near them before the cars left on the parade and most of our boys pretty much ignored them - as opposed to the Lions players, whom to a man - including coaches, hi fived, chattered, signed autographs etc etc.
They went on and on as I squirmed with discomfort on the huge difference behind the scenes between the two squads.

They concluded their story with how Chris Fagan and a few of the Lions operations staff left the celebrations to seek out and thank my friend and other various AFL and MCG staff for their help throughout the week.
The ONLY Swans person that approached anyone to thank them for their help was Josh Kennedy! Not even a Swans staffer!!!

That is a 100% true story. I can't say whom the person is as they are bound by a non disclosure agreement, but they are reasonably high up in the AFL and has no reason (and really was too drunk) to be making up stories.

If true what the hell is going on at the club? This is all on the coaching panel.

 

[ashep]

You guys are totally right. Fox should have said the team are all ****ed in the head and are destined to underachieve for the next half decade.

This thread has well and truly jumped the shark if you're calling for a woman you've never heard of to lose her job because an athlete dared to say his career won't be defined by 4 quarters of footy.

 

[zyzzbruh]

I can 100% guarantee you that Caro is spot on.

I have VERY close personal ties with someone who works at AFL house, so close that my husband and I stayed with them last week - so we are talking real close!
Prior to Monday, this person didn't say too much about the different teams, an occasional comment about how easy the Lions are to deal with, the Swans are a little more demanding but that's due to them being very professional.

Monday afternoon was AFL houses version of "mad Monday". They booked out a pub nearby and everyone associated attended. The food and drink ran hot, a good day was had by all and they were all Ubered home afterwards.

My friend had a very big day, consumed copious amounts of red wine and, as alcohol tends to do, loosened their inhibitions and was very chatty.
Basically they started to tell me all about the real behind the scenes of last Friday/Saturday and as a Swans fan, it was hard to listen to.
We apparently complained about virtually everything, we - players and staff, were rude or simply dismissive of those trying to help them. There were apparently auskick kids somewhere near them before the cars left on the parade and most of our boys pretty much ignored them - as opposed to the Lions players, whom to a man - including coaches, hi fived, chattered, signed autographs etc etc.
They went on and on as I squirmed with discomfort on the huge difference behind the scenes between the two squads.

They concluded their story with how Chris Fagan and a few of the Lions operations staff left the celebrations to seek out and thank my friend and other various AFL and MCG staff for their help throughout the week.
The ONLY Swans person that approached anyone to thank them for their help was Josh Kennedy! Not even a Swans staffer!!!

That is a 100% true story. I can't say whom the person is as they are bound by a non disclosure agreement, but they are reasonably high up in the AFL and has no reason (and really was too drunk) to be making up stories.

Take it with a grain of salt, everyone complains about their job and/or others in the workplace even if it was the most well run organisation on the planet. I know because i work in the most tame office you'll ever see, very manageable workload and a super nice boss, yet people still try to complain, and the petty shit that you hear is just eye rolling, some of it even just pure lies for the sake of curing boredom.

aka Your friend sounds like a drama queen, and not the type of person i'd employ tbh, the non disclosure statement is a testament to that.. No one thanks me fore doing my job, and i don't seek it either.

 

[caesar88]

I can 100% guarantee you that Caro is spot on.

I have VERY close personal ties with someone who works at AFL house, so close that my husband and I stayed with them last week - so we are talking real close!
Prior to Monday, this person didn't say too much about the different teams, an occasional comment about how easy the Lions are to deal with, the Swans are a little more demanding but that's due to them being very professional.

Monday afternoon was AFL houses version of "mad Monday". They booked out a pub nearby and everyone associated attended. The food and drink ran hot, a good day was had by all and they were all Ubered home afterwards.

My friend had a very big day, consumed copious amounts of red wine and, as alcohol tends to do, loosened their inhibitions and was very chatty.
Basically they started to tell me all about the real behind the scenes of last Friday/Saturday and as a Swans fan, it was hard to listen to.
We apparently complained about virtually everything, we - players and staff, were rude or simply dismissive of those trying to help them. There were apparently auskick kids somewhere near them before the cars left on the parade and most of our boys pretty much ignored them - as opposed to the Lions players, whom to a man - including coaches, hi fived, chattered, signed autographs etc etc.
They went on and on as I squirmed with discomfort on the huge difference behind the scenes between the two squads.

They concluded their story with how Chris Fagan and a few of the Lions operations staff left the celebrations to seek out and thank my friend and other various AFL and MCG staff for their help throughout the week.
The ONLY Swans person that approached anyone to thank them for their help was Josh Kennedy! Not even a Swans staffer!!!

That is a 100% true story. I can't say whom the person is as they are bound by a non disclosure agreement, but they are reasonably high up in the AFL and has no reason (and really was too drunk) to be making up stories.

Yucky

 

[Bloods86]

You guys are totally right. Fox should have said the team are all ****ed in the head and are destined to underachieve for the next half decade.

I wish he had. A bit of honesty before making changes to address the problems would be refreshing.

 

[Jewelsbon]

Yucky

Yep that was my thoughts too.
I'm not saying it has any relation to what happened on field, but gee, hearing it left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[The King!]

You guys are totally right. Fox should have said the team are all ****ed in the head and are destined to underachieve for the next half decade.

This thread has well and truly jumped the shark if you're calling for a woman you've never heard of to lose her job because an athlete dared to say his career won't be defined by 4 quarters of footy.

Reality is always somewhere in the middle in terms of what should be said.

But yeah to suggest the psychologist is in the wrong when she was an asset a few days ago is a bit much . Not like we have a witch doctor doing a dance

 

[Jewelsbon]

Take it with a grain of salt, everyone complains about their job and/or others in the workplace even if it was the most well run organisation on the planet. I know because i work in the most tame office you'll ever see, very manageable workload and a super nice boss, yet people still try to complain, and the petty shit that you hear is just eye rolling, some of it even just pure lies for the sake of curing boredom.

aka Your friend sounds like a drama queen, and not the type of person i'd employ tbh, the non disclosure statement is a testament to that.. No one thanks me fore doing my job, and i don't seek it either.

No not a drama queen at all. They have worked in sport for a very long time and prior to working with the AFL, has worked with and for overseas professional sporting companies and most of the big Australian sporting organizations, so not coming from a place of ignorance and definitely wasn't complaining about their job nor seeking any thanks.
Just comparing how one club does things compared to another and the vast differences between the two are as stark off the field as they were on.

 

[melbournehammer]

I can 100% guarantee you that Caro is spot on.

I have VERY close personal ties with someone who works at AFL house, so close that my husband and I stayed with them last week - so we are talking real close!
Prior to Monday, this person didn't say too much about the different teams, an occasional comment about how easy the Lions are to deal with, the Swans are a little more demanding but that's due to them being very professional.

Monday afternoon was AFL houses version of "mad Monday". They booked out a pub nearby and everyone associated attended. The food and drink ran hot, a good day was had by all and they were all Ubered home afterwards.

My friend had a very big day, consumed copious amounts of red wine and, as alcohol tends to do, loosened their inhibitions and was very chatty.
Basically they started to tell me all about the real behind the scenes of last Friday/Saturday and as a Swans fan, it was hard to listen to.
We apparently complained about virtually everything, we - players and staff, were rude or simply dismissive of those trying to help them. There were apparently auskick kids somewhere near them before the cars left on the parade and most of our boys pretty much ignored them - as opposed to the Lions players, whom to a man - including coaches, hi fived, chattered, signed autographs etc etc.
They went on and on as I squirmed with discomfort on the huge difference behind the scenes between the two squads.

They concluded their story with how Chris Fagan and a few of the Lions operations staff left the celebrations to seek out and thank my friend and other various AFL and MCG staff for their help throughout the week.
The ONLY Swans person that approached anyone to thank them for their help was Josh Kennedy! Not even a Swans staffer!!!

That is a 100% true story. I can't say whom the person is as they are bound by a non disclosure agreement, but they are reasonably high up in the AFL and has no reason (and really was too drunk) to be making up stories.

thanks for sharing.

the only word which comes to mind is disappointing.

 

[caesar88]

thanks for sharing.

the only word which comes to mind is disappointing.

If you have your ear in the right places, you'd be surprised how often you hear something that suggests our club has been overrun by untamed egos.

 

[Nuggetz]

No not a drama queen at all. They have worked in sport for a very long time and prior to working with the AFL, has worked with and for overseas professional sporting companies and most of the big Australian sporting organizations, so not coming from a place of ignorance and definitely wasn't complaining about their job nor seeking any thanks.
Just comparing how one club does things compared to another and the vast differences between the two are as stark off the field as they were on.

It sounds like we had a sense of entitlement, we played like the Premiership was a given.

Re the one game comment, I assume it was done so the players don't feel like the enormous pressure of a GF & freeze up.

I would've thought the opposite works.
Embrace the enormity of the game & use it as an emotional drive to win. This is it, do or die. Give it your all.

That's what I had hoped, that's what I thought the players would've learned from their previous GF failures.

 

[melbournehammer]

You guys are totally right. Fox should have said the team are all ****ed in the head and are destined to underachieve for the next half decade.

This thread has well and truly jumped the shark if you're calling for a woman you've never heard of to lose her job because an athlete dared to say his career won't be defined by 4 quarters of footy.

really the antagonism towards emma murray's views misses the point of why she says these things - not defining is designed to relieve the pressure and performance anxiety - to make the players stay in the moment and to allow them not to be defined by how others perceive them.

I didnt like the perfect prep stuff because it felt like an agreed line (it clearly wasnt given mills, mcdonald, mcinerney and the inability to adjust to the pressure of the lions once the game started) but I'm not going to agree that people saying they werent going to be defined by the game indicates that the players didnt care or didnt try.

I'm absolutely of the view that the coaching and structure of the team failed. I think some of the players (perhaps most of the players) let themselves down and their team mates (and us as well I guess). But I dont really pot their reactions. You have to cope somehow.

I'm much more angered by the club putting out the stupid instagram post saying thank you and sign up again without having tom harley or pridham come out and say we're incredibly disappointed with this and 2022 and we are going to look closely (review if you will) what we do (and please sign up)

Anyway watch

NFL Films | NFL.com

 

[Nuggetz]

If you have your ear in the right places, you'd be surprised how often you hear something that suggests our club has been overrun by untamed egos.

At the highest level, you'll always have egos. I think this was more a sense of entitlement OR they wanted everything to be perfect due to the fact we've lost soo many GFs. They went overboard with the requests & behaviour.

It does show the GF preparation was an issue once again...

 

[Jewelsbon]

If you have your ear in the right places, you'd be surprised how often you hear something that suggests our club has been overrun by untamed egos.

It seems very, very different to how we appeared to be 10+ years ago.

 

[melbournehammer]

If you have your ear in the right places, you'd be surprised how often you hear something that suggests our club has been overrun by untamed egos.

that really is disappointing. I rather like listening to the stories of paul roos and alastair lynch about when the fitzroy players had to buy their own weights and how that made the players and the team stronger. Entitlement breeds complacency. paul broderick used to coach around my way and a nicer guy you couldnt hope to meet. and there wasnt any entitlement in his 100 or so games for fitzroy and 100 or so for richmond. just hard relentless work. if you want any sort of success in life there really isnt any alternative - and that doesnt come from getting some porter to carry your bags

 

[caesar88]

It seems very, very different to how we appeared to be 10+ years ago.

I feel like no two generations of players are ever going to be the same. Demographics change, society changes etc.

But then I also think... well isn't that the point of the Bloods culture? Isn't that supposed to be the one constant, that every player who walks through the door adheres to?

There was always probably a mythological element to the Bloods culture that makes it seem more grandiose and all-encompassing than it actually is, but I still feel like too many at our club currently don't truly "get it."