List Mgmt. The Kelly and All Draft and Trades Discussion Thread- #freetim #ITSHAPPENING

[Shadow89]

I have seen a few of your posts that suggest TK wants high draft picks as it demonstrates how WC rate him. I have replied to this statement from in the other thread. I just don't think that is how players see it. I think they recognise that many other factors contribute to the exchange of picks that take place, and player's don't infer the value and worth from draft picks. We offered 20+22 last year, and apparently walked away when Geelong asked for more, and yet once again, Tim Kelly has nominated us. If what you said was true, Tim Kelly would have said "I am worth more than that, I'm off to Freo".

So, I think we agree that the trade scenario suggested in Dylan's post is well and truly unders. Other than the actual picks, do you have any thoughts about the other points Dylan made. I.e. Tim Kelly being extremely unhappy with how this has played out?

Honestly, no I don't. I have no idea about the inner machinations of this whole scenario. I can only go on what he said at the airport to the media last night as my best guide. That he's 'a pretty important player to us...Geelong deserve a good deal...hopefully a trade can be done.' Also his comments regarding how he 'loves the club' and the photos from the Carji where he has a lot of mates - Miers, Narkle, Ratugolea, Parfitt, Cockatoo etc. I don't think it's the players per se, as much as it is Chris Scott that would probably have pissed him off, if anything. He's said a lot of things he shouldn't in recent times, and it hasn't helped anyone. Beyond that though, that's the extent of my knowledge.

 

[Godfather32]

Lets be honest. Everyone in the thread that day was delighted Worpel was still there and not 1of us wanted Ainsworth . He must have been a flight risk .

Even if he was we should have backed ourselves to change his mind or hope he plays well and we get a nice trade piece out of it. He was clearly a far better player than Ainsworth.

 

[twotooto]

So you're essentially only handing over Pick 20 and 22 from last year, without the extra 2nd rounder...a year after he becomes AA and finishes Top 5 in the Brownlow? Rates Kelly at 1711 DVI points on the academy scale. That's far, far less than last year, where the 3 second round picks we were offered = 2299 DVI points. So we're essentially only getting Pick 20 and 22 last year by that logic. And you believe this information? This is despite the fact that even Dangerfield netted Pick 9, 28 and a fringe player, and a less skilled (uncontracted) player in Treloar netted Pick 7 and a Future 1st with 27 coming back (14-18 for arguments sake instead of the 7 they ended up with).

I guarantee your club will be looked upon in a bad light if they pull that sort of move. You guys say all this stuff about us, but that would be an abject joke if you offered up that for a top shelf elite mid, who was AA, Top 5 in the Brownlow and 2 x Runner up B + F in his first 2 years. You'd be essentially viewed as using his autistic children to prise him away from the club that drafted him, without providing adequate compensation comparable with previous similar high-profile trades - Dangerfield, Neale, Treloar, Lever, Gibbs, Hogan, Shiel etc. Also looks like you're again playing with Kelly's future and not rating him, by playing games and offering significant unders. Won't look good if he ends up at Freo or has to take a chance on the draft, if you're not willing to deal fairly. We rate him as a Top 10 pick and a 1st and you guys rate him as a couple of 2nd rounders...don't think Kelly would take too kindly to that either.

Also, before you all pile in and say 'what about Jack Steven'...it's been heavily insinuated that we're not actually interested in him at all now, given risk/reward factor. I think there's too many issues there. I hope he stays with St Kilda, as it's best for all.

Maybe wait until trade week actually opens and potential deals become public before bursting a pooper valve.

 

[FreeTK]

Honestly, no I don't. I have no idea about the inner machinations of this whole scenario. I can only go and what he said at the airport to the media last night as my best guide. That he's 'a pretty important player to us...Geelong deserve a good deal...hopefully a trade can be done.' That's the extent of my knowledge.

The absence of niceties between Tim Kelly and Geelong Football Club has been a bit odd. You're right in that any animosity would be directed at the Football department and club administrators, not the players.

Geelong didn't thank Tim for his service in their statement, or talk about what he has achieved in his 2 seasons there. It was 3 lines. Two of which was misrepresenting what Tim had requested.

Tim also didn't say anything in the interview about how great Geelong had been about all of this or say he appreciated all the support from the club.

Sounds to me like he feels a bit like he is being treated as nothing but a commodity to be used to extract the most value, even if that means ignoring the particular club nominated in his trade request. That would cause some bad blood, don't you think?

 

[Dark Sharks]

Regardless of the quality of his teammates, Worpel is one of the best young midfielders in the competition.

The EXACT thing missing from our list is a young AFL quality midfielder. We could've had him.

We all wanted him in the trade thread, he was everything we needed with Priddis going. Tough, leader, mature bodied, explosive....

He was head and shoulders more appealing than Ainsworth, a different level. Even if he went back home after 2 years we'd get a big upgrade on that investment.



HE COULD HAVE BEEN THE BIG BODIED INSIDE BULL WE'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR.... for reals, not even joking

Instead we've got Brayden. Good thing we don't have to worry about him going home, just getting delisted in 12 months time.

 

[garlic munchers]

Suppose it’s a little off topic but saturation point reached for TK.

Any ideas whether a 3rd pick and a future 4th, would get us a really solid dietician for Gov?

Suppose I be open to upgrading the 4th if this brings a couple of kg’s trade out from NN at well.

P.S. apologies ( to your mother) if someone deems this fat shaming.

 

[Shadow89]

Your comprehension of what he suggested as the trade is wrong. You're missing a whole first round draft pick in your reply post.

Incorrect. I'm comparing the DVI (academy points). 14, 34 and 34 for Kelly and 55 and 49 back (based on draft positions this year), means 1711 points on the DVI scale. Last year, the three second rounders on offer, was 2299 points on the academy scale. If you extrapolate the difference, you'll see that the difference between 2299 and 1711, is around 500 academy points, or Pick 36 (Future 2nd). That means 1711 (the proposed offer this year), is only the points equal of Pick 20 + 22 (1750 points or so).

 

[ROO DOGG]

Maybe wait until trade week actually opens and potential deals become public before bursting a pooper valve.

ooooooooooor, that sounds painful.

 

[Seadog]

Lets be honest. Everyone in the thread that day was delighted Worpel was still there and not 1of us wanted Ainsworth . He must have been a flight risk .

Wasn't he the kid who let it be known he wouldn't leave Melbourne? I'm sure there were mutterings of draft tampering.
Or I could be completely wrong.

 

[Godfather32]

Regardless of the quality of his teammates, Worpel is one of the best young midfielders in the competition.

The EXACT thing missing from our list is a young AFL quality midfielder. We could've had him.

We all wanted him in the trade thread, he was everything we needed with Priddis going. Tough, leader, mature bodied, explosive....

He was head and shoulders more appealing that Ainsworth, a different level. Even if he went back home after 2 years we'd get a big upgrade on that investment.



HE COULD HAVE BEEN THE BIG BODIED INSIDE BULL WE'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR.... for reals, not even joking

Instead we've got Brayden. Good thing we don't have to worry about him going home, just getting delisted in 12 months time.

We surely have to be one of the worst teams out there at identifying and drafting young midfield talent.
But all you get from the supposed inside guy on here is we haven't missed anyone over the years, hindsight, we haven't had enough high picks, hard to get good midfielders without high picks blah blah blah. It's a load of crap, there are decent midfielders drafted later on in plenty of drafts, we're just really bad at working out who they are.

 

[Shadow89]

The absence of niceties between Tim Kelly and Geelong Football Club has been a bit odd. You're right in that any animosity would be directed at the Football department and club administrators, not the players.

Geelong didn't thank Tim for his service in their statement, or talk about what he has achieved in his 2 seasons there. It was 3 lines. Two of which was misrepresenting what Tim had requested.

Tim also didn't say anything in the interview about how great Geelong had been about all of this or say he appreciated all the support from the club.

Sounds to me like he feels a bit like he is being treated as nothing but a commodity to be used to extract the most value, even if that means ignoring the particular club nominated in his trade request. That would cause some bad blood, don't you think?

Why would we putting out a statement though, if he hasn't even left yet? Be a bit odd if we were like 'all the best Tim and thank you for your 2 years here' before the trade even happens. He could quit footy. He could stay in Geelong. Who knows all the permutations. Clubs don't say goodbye and thank you in their trade statements, ever. Hill, Daniher, Papley etc. are all in limbo, just like Kelly. He'll get his message once he's at his new club, just like every other player has in trade history.

I do think the wording is a little strange, but I do also think that Tim's side could have a part to play in that, given him (possibly) keeping Fremantle open as a last resort. Especially if everything goes to hell (unlikely).

Tim said like 4 words in that interview lol, and he's said his piece all year/last year. He's constantly said how 'if he could move Perth to Geelong he would.' He also had his own column he wrote in every second week for the Geelong Advertiser, where he expressed a lot of passion for the club and his teammates. I don't think he's as disgruntled as everyone thinks.

I honestly think he just wants it to get done. He's probably tired, happy to be home, a bit pissed off at Scott (who wouldn't be), the idiot supporters who harassed his family, and maybe some other senior members given all the BS that's played out the last 2 years. With this said, he's never once said a bad thing about Geelong in his entire tenure, and his articles and responses throughout the year reflect someone who wasn't that unhappy. I think Caitlin may have been unhappy and stressed, but even she had a better year as she formed a friendship group and became 'besties' with Miers' missus - Gemma. Also always hanging out with Narkle, Rata, Parf, Cockatoo etc.

I just think they're over all the media BS and speculation, and they just want to go back to a more laid back life with their family and friends and a real support system that takes the load off them both - with respect to being young parents with 3 kids and 2 who are autistic. Once the dust settles, and everyone is treated fairly, I think we'll find that most involved (probably not Scott) will be happy and keen to move on.

 

[FreeTK]

Why would we putting out a statement though, if he hasn't even left yet? Be a bit odd if we were like 'all the best Tim and thank you for your 2 years here' before the trade even happens. He could quit footy. He could stay in Geelong. Who knows all the permutations. Clubs don't say goodbye and thank you in their trade statements, ever. Hill, Daniher, Papley etc. are all in limbo, just like Kelly. He'll get his message once he's at his new club, just like every other player has in trade history.

I do think the wording is a little strange, but I do also think that Tim's side could have a part to play in that, given him (possibly) keeping Fremantle open as a last resort. Especially if everything goes to hell (unlikely).

Tim said like 4 words in that interview lol, and he's said his piece all year/last year. He's constantly said how 'if he could move Perth to Geelong he would.' He also had his own column he wrote in every second week for the Geelong Advertiser, where he expressed a lot of passion for the club and his teammates. I don't think he's as disgruntled as everyone thinks.

I honestly think he just wants it to get done. He's probably tired, happy to be home, a bit pi**ed off at Scott (who wouldn't be), the idiot supporters who harassed his family, and maybe some other senior members given all the BS that's played out the last 2 years. With this said, he's never once said a bad thing about Geelong in his entire tenure, and his articles and responses throughout the year reflect someone who wasn't that unhappy. I think Caitlin may have been unhappy and stressed, but even she had a better year as she formed a friendship group and became 'besties' with Miers' missus - Gemma. Also always hanging out with Narkle, Rata, Parf, Cockatoo etc.

I just think they're over all the media BS and speculation, and they just want to go back to a more laid back life with their family and friends and a real support system that takes the load off them both - with respect to being young parents with 3 kids and 2 who are autistic. Once the dust settles, and everyone is treated fairly, I think we'll find that most involved (probably not Scott) will be happy and keen to move on.

The wording wasn't strange, it was intentionally misleading and misrepresentative of the facts. And it was done so on purpose, to gain upper hand in media cycle and in trade negotiations with West Coast.

Not to mention the allegation that Geelong leaked the information before the Best & Fairest against Tim Kelly's wishes.

There is nothing to suggest that Tim Kelly has kept this door open to go to Fremantle.

I love how Geelong supporters are very keen to act as though this trade has been conducted in the same manner as all the others in recent trade history. It hasn't. Chris Scott and his ilk have put the inner workings of the Geelong Football Club and it's values on full display for the football community to see, and it is an ugly sight.

 

[Avalor]

Incorrect. I'm comparing the DVI (academy points). 14, 34 and 34 for Kelly and 55 and 49 back (based on draft positions this year), means 1711 points on the DVI scale. Last year, the three second rounders on offer, was 2299 points on the academy scale. If you extrapolate the difference, you'll see that the difference between 2299 and 1711, is around 500 academy points, or Pick 36 (Future 2nd). That means 1711 (the proposed offer this year), is only the points equal of Pick 20 + 22 (1750 points or so).

Contracted versus uncontracted.

 

[Gaffy Duck]

I ventured to their board just to see.

Now they are wanting to trade Kelly and Menegola for Gaff and a top 10 pick

Think it’s time to start drinking

 

[FreeTK]

I ventured to their board just to see.

Now they are wanting to trade Kelly and Menegola for Gaff and a top 10 pick

Think it’s time to start drinking

That's unders. Gaff is a B+ at most.

 

[Max zero]

Contracted versus uncontracted.

Indeed 2018 = "happy to play out my contract in 2019 with Geelong."

Now 2019 = move back into Perth the day after B&F. He ain't coming back.

 

[Biggie]

Think it’s time to start drinking

That board hasn’t stopped drinking it seems

 

[ziad]

We surely have to be one of the worst teams out there at identifying and drafting young midfield talent.
But all you get from the supposed inside guy on here is we haven't missed anyone over the years, hindsight, we haven't had enough high picks, hard to get good midfielders without high picks blah blah blah. It's a load of crap, there are decent midfielders drafted later on in plenty of drafts, we're just really bad at working out who they are.

Surely are, Judd, Kerr, Cuz, Priddis, Yoe, GF Hero #7 , Gaff, Schey, all rubbish

 

[Into The Black]

I ventured to their board just to see.

Now they are wanting to trade Kelly and Menegola for Gaff and a top 10 pick

Think it’s time to start drinking

Hang in there mate, it's a bit early for that, and pull your shorts down.

 

[Gaffy Duck]

That board hasn’t stopped drinking it seems

I didn’t realize Jonestown was so close to Corio Bay

.. sorry

 

[FreeTK]

Hang in there mate, it's a bit early for that, and pull your shorts down.

Everyday Tom Barrass must regret pulling his pants up that high.

 

[Cuzz09]

Isn't that kind of embarrassing for Hawthorn with a 2nd year player winning the B&F.

Yeah that was my first thought. Goid on him but the next few names on their B & F list dont scream "contenders Any time soon"



On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Godfather32]

Surely are, Judd, Kerr, Cuz, Priddis, Yoe, GF Hero #7 , Gaff, Schey, all rubbish

Yes, lets bring up a bunch of midfielders who were all drafted around 10+ years ago apart from one guy who's been very hot and cold and another guy who we traded in.
Look at our list, it's devoid of young midfield talent, there's one guy below the age of 24 who might (might) end up being a best 22 midfielder.
Given that most talent is drafted around the age of 18-19 that's a 5-6 year gap in our list we're going to need to fill somehow.

 

[3agles87]

So you're essentially only handing over Pick 20 and 22 from last year, without the extra 2nd rounder...a year after he becomes AA and finishes Top 5 in the Brownlow? Rates Kelly at 1711 DVI points on the academy scale. That's far, far less than last year, where the 3 second round picks we were offered = 2299 DVI points. So we're essentially only getting Pick 20 and 22 last year by that logic. And you believe this information? This is despite the fact that even Dangerfield netted Pick 9, 28 and a fringe player, and a less skilled (uncontracted) player in Treloar netted Pick 7 and a Future 1st with 27 coming back (14-18 for arguments sake instead of the 7 they ended up with).

I guarantee your club will be looked upon in a bad light if they pull that sort of move. You guys say all this stuff about us, but that would be an abject joke if you offered up that for a top shelf elite mid, who was AA, Top 5 in the Brownlow and 2 x Runner up B + F in his first 2 years. You'd be essentially viewed as using his autistic children to prise him away from the club that drafted him, without providing adequate compensation comparable with previous similar high-profile trades - Dangerfield, Neale, Treloar, Lever, Gibbs, Hogan, Shiel etc. Also looks like you're again playing with Kelly's future and not rating him, by playing games and offering significant unders. Won't look good if he ends up at Freo or has to take a chance on the draft, if you're not willing to deal fairly. We rate him as a Top 10 pick and a 1st and you guys rate him as a couple of 2nd rounders...don't think Kelly would take too kindly to that either.

Also, before you all pile in and say 'what about Jack Steven'...it's been heavily insinuated that we're not actually interested in him at all now, given risk/reward factor. I think there's too many issues there. I hope he stays with St Kilda, as it's best for all.

Funny sh.it. Would read again.

 

[mattyc75]

Really was hoping to land at least one of robertson,rivers or sharp this year,not going to happen is it..

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk