List Mgmt. The Kelly and All Draft and Trades Discussion Thread- #freetim #ITSHAPPENING

[Biggie]

Really was hoping to land at least one of robertson,rivers or sharp this year,not going to happen is it..

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

No mate

It’s a no show for us at the draft this season me thinks

 

[twotooto]

Just spoke to my guy ITK. Reckons our 2nd round pick in the 30's with something coming back should get it done.

 

[Cuzz09]

Unless we just say stuff it about Kelly and use our picks.

On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Dark Sharks]

Wasn't he the kid who let it be known he wouldn't leave Melbourne? I'm sure there were mutterings of draft tampering.
Or I could be completely wrong.

Yeah, it's kind of ironic that it's EXACTLY what the Cats have now seen with Kelly.

We 'supposedly' passed on Worpel due to him potentially kicking up a fuss about leaving Victoria and wanting to go home...

Just like Geelong SHOULD have done their homework with Kelly. And if they did and decided to take him anyway, then they should just be happy they got 2 good years out of him at a cheap price and pick.

I'd have been happy with Worpels output for 2 seasons then losing him to Victoria over what Ainsworth has provided. Worpel is worth much more than pick 45.



It's not Ainworths fault obviously, he didn't dupe the West Coast recruiters. He was probably regarded a 3rd/4th round pick at best and we used our 2nd on him when it clearly should've been Constable or Worpel, who were snapped up 4 and 13 picks later.

 

[Shadow89]

The wording wasn't strange, it was intentionally misleading and misrepresentative of the facts. And it was done so on purpose, to gain upper hand in media cycle and in trade negotiations with West Coast.

Not to mention the allegation that Geelong leaked the information before the Best & Fairest against Tim Kelly's wishes.

There is nothing to suggest that Tim Kelly has kept this door open to go to Fremantle.

I love how Geelong supporters are very keen to act as though this trade has been conducted in the same manner as all the others in recent trade history. It hasn't and Geelong has put on display the values and inner workings of the Geelong Football Club, and it is an ugly thing to see.

It's also been said that Geelong 'got ahead' of things because his manager leaked it to a journo at the combine. His statement was first, don't forget.

Except for the fact that the very ITK you all trust, has said as much in his breakdown of info re: Fremantle being a option.

You're just spouting rhetoric now without any substantiation to back it up. You've been reasonable on both boards up until this point, not sure why this is turning verbose now.

I don't know how many trades you've seen take place, but the whole reason this BS of Freo being 'in the frame' came up, is because last year Kelly's manager tried to force us into trading him - on compassionate grounds - but on the proviso that he will only go to West Coast...a year after being drafted...and chased all year by West Coast. We weren't happy about that, and we found it reasonable for him to go to either club, if he 'absolutely had to leave to get home.' Which, if you'll remember, is the exact same thing GC said about Ablett, and the exact same thing said about Gibbs at Carlton. Neither were traded the first time they tried. Ablett's sister died in the interim (his need to get home), and you don't see them copping the abuse that we have for something far more serious.

Yet this Kelly scenario somehow turned into a public scene, where we were being 'unfair' and not offering enough public support to Caitlin (even though we had a soft cap that we couldn't just go outside). However, the narrative didn't line up because he was only going to go to 1 club, despite us being the ones who had to lose a good player we had just drafted. Not since Buckley, when the rules were changed surrounding the draft around draft tampering, has there been a 1st year player who was a gun, who then broke his contract, and then would only head to 1 club. It gave us no lee way, and we were left with no option but to entertain the trade. We entertained it, but ultimately it never came to fruition. Tim rocked up the next year, he played even better, became AA and finished Top 5 in the Brownlow. This is despite some WC posters saying that he was so disgruntled and hated Geelong so much that he would sit out the year. He then started his own column, we offered more support, and there was even talk he might stay, such was the positive situation at the club.

Scott has then come out and made an idiot out of himself, and probably pissed off Kelly (I'm not doubting that). Since then, there's been bits and pieces that have been floating around, but the only concrete things I've seen are how Kelly behaved at the Carji - him and Caitlin had many photos with their friendship group on instagram - and how he responded in his media interview yesterday - that he's important to us as a player, and we deserve a good deal.

That's where we're at now. We haven't treated him like a 'commodity.' A lot of WC supporters seem to think that he's been your player since day 1, and that we had no right to draft him. That's draft tampering. A player goes where he is drafted, which he agreed to, to get his shot. He can't then say 'I need to go home...but I'll only go here, less than 1 year after we drafted him. There'd be no point in the draft then. Despite all the rhetoric, even Shiel was happy to go to Carlton last year, if the Essendon deal couldn't be worked out.

He absolutely has every right to nominate his preference this year, but we have every right to receive apt compensation for losing his services. There's rarely been a player as good as Kelly in his first 2 years, so the situation is pretty unusual.

All of this hyperbole and rhetoric surrounding how we 'treated him' and all this BS, is just that. Read his Geelong Advertiser articles. Look at his wife's instagram and the 'Geelong family' photos. Look at how he speaks in pressers when he refers to us.

You guys can choose to believe this narrative, it's your prerogative. But remember, before this whole Kelly scenario, we were widely seen as fair traders and fair operators as an AFL organization. We are still the only team in history to give away premiership points to another team, because of tragic circumstances. We also abolished all gambling advertising on the ground, and got rid of all gaming machines. Throw in our commitment to special needs kids (one guy in particular who is just amazing), and our large group of Indigenous and non-Australian kids (7 now with Kelly gone) - and you can see we're not really that bad.

 

[Keys]

I feel that supporters of both clubs need to take a chill pill and wait for the two clubs to sort this out in due course.

Tim Kelly is indisputably a very good player and instantly makes us a better side so it’s only natural that Geelong will want to maximise their trade return. Conversely West Coast will want to minimise the price they pay - a low initial offer is not an indication that they don’t rate Kelly but just a normal negotiating strategy. They’ll know what price they’re willing to pay before walking away but won’t open with that just as Geelong will ask for more initially than they’re prepared to trade him for

Despite a deal not being struck last year there was no animosity between the clubs and that appears to still be the case. They are both well run clubs and will keep it professional without the tantrum throwing that supporters carry on with. As much as we can be disappointed Geelong didn’t trade Kelly last year they were within their rights to retain him and the year he had in 2019 justified that position

Both clubs will have prepared for this trade as they will have, if not expected it outright, known it was a possibility. I won’t be done on day one or even during the first week but I think a deal will eventually be agreed upon. West coast supporters will complain we gave away too much, Geelong supporters will be unhappy with what they get but Kelly will be in the wings and both clubs will move on. I doubt sections of each supporter base will and the name calling will continue on unabated

And nothing we say here or elsewhere will make a jot of difference

 

[Shadow89]

Contracted versus uncontracted.

Treloar.

 

[Shadow89]

I feel that supporters of both clubs need to take a chill pill and wait for the two clubs to sort this out in due course.

Tim Kelly is indisputably a very good player and instantly makes us a better side so it’s only natural that Geelong will want to maximise their trade return. Conversely West Coast will want to minimise the price they pay - a low initial offer is not an indication that they don’t rate Kelly but just a normal negotiating strategy. They’ll know what price they’re willing to pay before walking away but won’t open with that just as Geelong will ask for more initially than they’re prepared to trade him for

Despite a deal not being struck last year there was no animosity between the clubs and that appears to still be the case. They are both well run clubs and will keep it professional without the tantrum throwing that supporters carry on with. As much as we can be disappointed Geelong didn’t trade Kelly last year they were within their rights to retain him and the year he had in 2019 justified that position

Both clubs will have prepared for this trade as they will have, if not expected it outright, known it was a possibility. I won’t be done on day one or even during the first week but I think a deal will eventually be agreed upon. West coast supporters will complain we gave away too much, Geelong supporters will be unhappy with what they get but Kelly will be in the wings and both clubs will move on. I doubt sections of each supporter base will and the name calling will continue on unabated

And nothing we say here or elsewhere will make a jot of difference

Solid post. Well said.

 

[Obeanie1]

This is funny - think Papley wants out due to lifestyle reasons.

Papely is struggling with mental health with family and girlfriend in Melbourne. So compassionate grounds wants a trade whilst in contract.

But that's ok. It's weakening the Swans to strengthen the Blues. Vic media all happy with this one.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Can't let Ellis go to Fold Coast gaiz, it will just make a contender stronger.

 

[FreeTK]

It's also been said that Geelong 'got ahead' of things because his manager leaked it to a journo at the combine. His statement was first, don't forget.

Except for the fact that the very ITK you all trust, has said as much in his breakdown of info.

You're just spouting rhetoric now without any substantiation to back it up. You've been reasonable on both boards up until this point, not sure why this is turning verbose now.

I don't know how many trades you've seen take place, but the whole reason this BS of Freo being 'in the frame' came up, is because last year Kelly's manager tried to force us into trading him - on compassionate grounds - but on the proviso that he will only go to West Coast...a year after being drafted...and chased all year by West Coast. We weren't happy about that, and we found it reasonable for him to go to either club, if he 'absolutely had to leave to get home.' Which, if you'll remember, is the exact same thing GC said about Ablett, and the exact same thing said about Gibbs at Carlton. Neither were traded the first time they tried.

Yet this was turned into a public scene, where we were being 'unfair' and not offering enough public support to Caitlin (even though we had a soft cap that we couldn't just go outside). However, the narrative didn't line up because he was only going to go to 1 club, despite us being the ones who had to lose a good player we had just drafted. Not since Buckley, when the rules were changed surrounding the draft around draft tampering, has there been a 1st year player who was a gun, who then broke his contract, and then would only head to 1 club. It gave us no lee way, and we were left with no option but to entertain the trade. We entertained it, but ultimately it never came to fruition. Tim rocked up the next year, he played even better, and became AA and finished Top 5 in the Brownlow. This is despite some WC posters saying that he was so disgruntled and hated Geelong so much that he would sit out the year. He then started his own column, we offered more support, and there was even talk he might stay, such was the positive situation at the club.

Scott has then come out and made an idiot out of himself, and probably pi**ed off Kelly (I'm not doubting that). Since then, there's been bits and pieces that have been floating around, but the only concrete things I've seen are how Kelly behaved at the Carji - him and Caitlin had many photos with their friendship group on instagram - and how he responded in his media interview yesterday - that he's important to us as a player, and we deserve a good deal.

That's where we're at now. We haven't treated him like a 'commodity.' A lot of WC supporters seem to think that he's been your player since day 1, and that we had no right to draft him. That's draft tampering. A player goes where he is drafted, which he agreed to, to get his shot. He can't then say 'I need to go home...but I'll only go here, less than 1 year after we drafted him. There'd be no point in the draft then. Despite all the rhetoric, even Shiel was happy to go to Carlton last year, if the Essendon deal couldn't be worked out.

He absolutely has every right to nominate his preference this year, but we have every right to receive apt compensation for losing his services. There's rarely been a player as good as Kelly in his first 2 years, so the situation is pretty unusual.

All of this hyperbole and rhetoric surrounding how we 'treated him' and all this BS, is just that. Read his Geelong Advertiser articles. Look at his wife's instagram and the 'Geelong family' photos. Look at how he speaks in pressers when he refers to us.

You guys can choose to believe this narrative, it's your prerogative. But remember, before this whole Kelly scenario, we were widely seen as fair traders and fair operators as an AFL organization. We are still the only team in history to give away premiership points to another team, because of tragic circumstances.

This whole long ass post.........

I'll make my response quick.

1) It is common practice these days that players nominate a club. I have never seen a club say " we will speak to x club who player a has not nominated". It simply doesn't happen.
2) I have no doubt that Tim has enjoyed playing with his team mates at Geelong. Whether that is extended to your coach/football department is very likely a different story.
3) Whether Kelly's personal circumstances are unique, and the amount of time he has served are of no relevance. An out of contract player has exercised his right to request a trade.
4) Geelong was seen as fair traders. Which is why this is all so confusing. I can't help but think that it is panic stations at Geelong about their window. Chris Scott reeks of desperation.
5) You should be very careful about using the Phil Walsh situation as a demonstration of how fair you are. Trying to get brownie points off the back of a club tragedy is about as crass as it comes. Reality is, if Geelong did anything other than what they did, it would have been heartless, and the media would have covered it as Geelong heartless move. Geelong football club didn't do anything other than show basic common decency in that situation. You do not get a pat on the back for that.

 

[Obeanie1]

Q. If keely was a Victorian and asked to be traded to carlton what would the eagle supporters want in return

Close to the Neale trade is fair.

 

[Obeanie1]

Edwards is our only Key defender coming through? Rotham? Add to that Watson for the Jetta/Hurn roles. Finally Mcgovern and Barrass are not exactly old (27 and 23). We got a bit of time.

And Brander.

Read the Depth list.

Such crap journalism. Half on here can do better.

 

[twadds]

Contracted versus uncontracted.

This point seems to be lost on Geelong fans here.

 

[Shadow89]

This whole long ass post.........

I'll make my response quick.

1) It is common practice these days that players nominate a club. I have never seen a club say " we will speak to x club who player a has not nominated". It simply doesn't happen.
2) I have no doubt that Tim has enjoyed playing with his team mates at Geelong. Whether that is extended to your coach/football department is very likely a different story.
3) Whether Kelly's personal circumstances are unique, and his time serve are of no relevance. An out of contract player has exercised his right to request a trade.
4) Geelong was seen as fair traders. Which is why this is all so confusing. I can't help but think that it is panic stations at Geelong about their window. Chris Scott reeks of desperation.
5) You should be very careful about using the Phil Walsh situation as a demonstration of how fair you are. Trying to get brownie points off the back of a club tragedy is about as crass as it comes. Reality is, if Geelong did anything other than what they did, it would have been heartless, and the media would have covered it as Geelong heartless move.

Kelly's time served was quoted in reference to his first year, where he was in contract, which plays a part. Not this year. I only referenced the short time in which he rose to his current status in the game, as it is unusual and has affected trade value. Same could be said for Worpel too tbh.

Re: Phil Walsh, absolutely not using it as 'brownie points' per se, more a demonstration of something that we did, whilst Hawthorn and Collingwood played off the night before (there was talk the entire round should be scrapped but no consensus could be reached). I honestly don't think that a club like say Collingwood, would have forfeited their right to premiership points, given the option. I'm not saying it to put us 'up' I'm just mentioning it as pointing out that we're not the worst, lol. It was the decent moral thing to do, and we did it. I would expect nothing less from my club.

Chris Scott does reek of desperation, you're not wrong there. Re: your 'I've never seen a club say we will speak to x club who player a has not nominated', it has happened here and there. It's not commonplace, but clubs will talk to other clubs if they don't think they're getting fair value from the nominated club. Perfect example is again Dodo screwing around until the last hour, and GWS getting in contact with Carlton to see if they're interested in the Shiel deal if it can't be done. Bell himself has said that they're interested and that they're not 'ruling themselves out.'

All of it is posturing, designed to create leverage and probably (most likely) to create sensationalist media headlines, lol. Caddy didn't originally want to come to us btw, and Deledio DID want to come to us, but went to GWS. There's another couple of examples. It does happen, and it's not as insidious as you might think.

I'll leave it there though, because I don't think this discussion is going to go any further, without it becoming cyclical.

 

[FatPizza]

And Brander.

Read the Depth list.

Such crap journalism. Half on here can do better.

I reckon half the Geelong board could do better. They seem to have a pretty intimate knowledge of our list since apparently all of our players are involved in the Kelly trade.

 

[Shadow89]

This point seems to be lost on Geelong fans here.

Contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on anymore. He won't go to the draft, and he doesn't want to go to Fremantle. Treloar (a similar elite mid) was uncontracted, and garnered 7 and a future 1st (14-18 for arguments sake re: Collingwood's conceived finishing position).

 

[Shadow89]

I'll just give you guys what you want -

Kelly, Pick 36 + Jordan Clark for Pick 14 + 34

There, now have your celebration. Peace

 

[Max zero]

I feel that supporters of both clubs need to take a chill pill and wait for the two clubs to sort this out in due course.

Tim Kelly is indisputably a very good player and instantly makes us a better side so it’s only natural that Geelong will want to maximise their trade return. Conversely West Coast will want to minimise the price they pay - a low initial offer is not an indication that they don’t rate Kelly but just a normal negotiating strategy. They’ll know what price they’re willing to pay before walking away but won’t open with that just as Geelong will ask for more initially than they’re prepared to trade him for

Despite a deal not being struck last year there was no animosity between the clubs and that appears to still be the case. They are both well run clubs and will keep it professional without the tantrum throwing that supporters carry on with. As much as we can be disappointed Geelong didn’t trade Kelly last year they were within their rights to retain him and the year he had in 2019 justified that position

Both clubs will have prepared for this trade as they will have, if not expected it outright, known it was a possibility. I won’t be done on day one or even during the first week but I think a deal will eventually be agreed upon. West coast supporters will complain we gave away too much, Geelong supporters will be unhappy with what they get but Kelly will be in the wings and both clubs will move on. I doubt sections of each supporter base will and the name calling will continue on unabated

And nothing we say here or elsewhere will make a jot of difference

But thats boring.

Need more baseless speculation, emotive language and personal attacks if we want to add another 50 pages to this thread.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Incorrect. I'm comparing the DVI (academy points). 14, 34 and 34 for Kelly and 55 and 49 back (based on draft positions this year), means 1711 points on the DVI scale. Last year, the three second rounders on offer, was 2299 points on the academy scale. If you extrapolate the difference, you'll see that the difference between 2299 and 1711, is around 500 academy points, or Pick 36 (Future 2nd). That means 1711 (the proposed offer this year), is only the points equal of Pick 20 + 22 (1750 points or so).

Ok now I understand where you're coming from. Your original post could have been better phrased as it made no sense.

Draft pick points are only really relevant in father son and academy bidding.

Using Dylan's proposed trade, the clubs may rationalise it that Geelong will not use those late picks anyway, as they will have sufficient early picks to satisfy their list turnover. Meanwhile West Coast have effectively traded themselves out of the draft, so those picks become important. While Geelong can argue "it's not our problem", they choose to hand over those late picks. Those 3rd rd picks make no difference to Geelong but it expedites the trade when otherwise the Eagles might be reluctant to sign off without first getting a feel for what options they have with other clubs/trades.

 

[Obeanie1]

Really was hoping to land at least one of robertson,rivers or sharp this year,not going to happen is it..

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Not unless we somehow land 36 from the Cats and trade that plus our retained 31 for a pick in the low 20's.

Or a player moves.

 

[Godfather32]

I'll just give you guys what you want -

Kelly, Pick 36 + Jordan Clark for Pick 14 + 34

There, now have your celebration. Peace

I think most people have said something like this years 1st and next years 1st for Kelly + maybe a later pick coming back is fair.
Personally I'd go as high as this years 1st and next years 1st straight up for Kelly and I think that's still a reasonably fair trade.
But when all you hear back from 90% of Geelong fans is herp derp Gaff + a 1st rounder as a starting point the conversation tends to break down.

 

[Avalor]

It's also been said that Geelong 'got ahead' of things because his manager leaked it to a journo at the combine. His statement was first, don't forget.

Except for the fact that the very ITK you all trust, has said as much in his breakdown of info re: Fremantle being a option.

You're just spouting rhetoric now without any substantiation to back it up. You've been reasonable on both boards up until this point, not sure why this is turning verbose now.

I don't know how many trades you've seen take place, but the whole reason this BS of Freo being 'in the frame' came up, is because last year Kelly's manager tried to force us into trading him - on compassionate grounds - but on the proviso that he will only go to West Coast...a year after being drafted...and chased all year by West Coast. We weren't happy about that, and we found it reasonable for him to go to either club, if he 'absolutely had to leave to get home.' Which, if you'll remember, is the exact same thing GC said about Ablett, and the exact same thing said about Gibbs at Carlton. Neither were traded the first time they tried. Ablett's sister died in the interim (his need to get home), and you don't see them copping the abuse that we have for something far more serious.

Yet this Kelly scenario somehow turned into a public scene, where we were being 'unfair' and not offering enough public support to Caitlin (even though we had a soft cap that we couldn't just go outside). However, the narrative didn't line up because he was only going to go to 1 club, despite us being the ones who had to lose a good player we had just drafted. Not since Buckley, when the rules were changed surrounding the draft around draft tampering, has there been a 1st year player who was a gun, who then broke his contract, and then would only head to 1 club. It gave us no lee way, and we were left with no option but to entertain the trade. We entertained it, but ultimately it never came to fruition. Tim rocked up the next year, he played even better, became AA and finished Top 5 in the Brownlow. This is despite some WC posters saying that he was so disgruntled and hated Geelong so much that he would sit out the year. He then started his own column, we offered more support, and there was even talk he might stay, such was the positive situation at the club.

Scott has then come out and made an idiot out of himself, and probably pi**ed off Kelly (I'm not doubting that). Since then, there's been bits and pieces that have been floating around, but the only concrete things I've seen are how Kelly behaved at the Carji - him and Caitlin had many photos with their friendship group on instagram - and how he responded in his media interview yesterday - that he's important to us as a player, and we deserve a good deal.

That's where we're at now. We haven't treated him like a 'commodity.' A lot of WC supporters seem to think that he's been your player since day 1, and that we had no right to draft him. That's draft tampering. A player goes where he is drafted, which he agreed to, to get his shot. He can't then say 'I need to go home...but I'll only go here, less than 1 year after we drafted him. There'd be no point in the draft then. Despite all the rhetoric, even Shiel was happy to go to Carlton last year, if the Essendon deal couldn't be worked out.

He absolutely has every right to nominate his preference this year, but we have every right to receive apt compensation for losing his services. There's rarely been a player as good as Kelly in his first 2 years, so the situation is pretty unusual.

All of this hyperbole and rhetoric surrounding how we 'treated him' and all this BS, is just that. Read his Geelong Advertiser articles. Look at his wife's instagram and the 'Geelong family' photos. Look at how he speaks in pressers when he refers to us.

You guys can choose to believe this narrative, it's your prerogative. But remember, before this whole Kelly scenario, we were widely seen as fair traders and fair operators as an AFL organization. We are still the only team in history to give away premiership points to another team, because of tragic circumstances. We also abolished all gambling advertising on the ground, and got rid of all gaming machines. Throw in our commitment to special needs kids (one guy in particular who is just amazing), and our large group of Indigenous and non-Australian kids (7 now with Kelly gone) - and you can see we're not really that bad.

Did someone mention the word, verbose?

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

I'll just give you guys what you want -

Kelly, Pick 36 + Jordan Clark for Pick 14 + 34

There, now have your celebration. Peace

Eagles posters have suggested 2 first rounders with Geelongs 2nd rounder coming back. Geelong posters lose their shit about the returning 2nd rounder.
We give ground and suggest 2 first rounders with nothing back is still fair, Geelong demand both be top 10.
We suggest a pick-swap with a third party to give Geelong a top 10 pick + 14, they demand Brander & Edwards as well.
Eagles posters give up and sarcastically agree to Gaff, Darling, Yeo & 14 and your lot demand TK only be traded to Freo.

There's just no rationality from your lot, no considered responses. Just arguing, badgering, banning and hyperventilating.
And then there's the behaviour of your coach and the social media harrassment of TK's partner (2 years in a row).

So for you to suggest we're trying to rip-off Geelong is just bizarre.

 

[wraglesweb]

Would be good if we got Zurhaar.
Not sure we could get it done though.