The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

[Freshwater]

Populism does not always equal reality,
Even ignoring the fact that the Republicans voted down tougher border control measures because they want to make political headway over the issue, counter-intuitively closed borders can actually increase illegal immigration by forcing seasonal workers to stay put.

Circular migration - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As I mentioned I am no fan of the Republican’s, I actually despise them. But they are generally tougher on the border?? And even if they are the same the public thinks they are. It wouldn’t surprise me that like Australia we have both main parties overly lax on immigration whilst one makes out they are stronger on it.In Australia I’ve always thought Dick Smith had the smartest long term view on immigration, I think it was around the 50,000 mark? and the Greens were also on board with this policy.

 

[bresker]

Like I said above, I like to watch citizen journalism channels from the US on YouTube. This one is long, 55 mins, but if you start you might get hooked. I did.

You want to know about immigration, talk to the people on the border. Not politicians in Washington.

A guy with a GoPro follows a Texas border guard for the day. You find out why 'build a wall' isn't an easy fix. Patrolling the border is a dangerous and frustrating task. Trump had four years to sort it out. So has Biden.

 

[MrChristo]

If it is not relevant anymore it is only because of regression not progression.

This is the entire point.
You can say all you like about the 'legality' of it, but if either those in power, or the citizens (or both) blatantly disregard it's premise then it's nothing but a useless bit of old paper.

The very system/philosophy that the country has chosen to adopt ensures that all people are NOT born (or treated) equally.

Powerful words, written with good intentions, sure, but laughable in a practical sense in American society today.
(And let's be honest, MLK wouldn't have had to reference it if the majority of people espoused it's values/intent/legality).

(Also, randomly, why is Dick Smith's opinion worth more than anyone else's? )

 

[MrChristo]

I agree with old documents being chucked.

That Magna Carta needs to be binned too....

Given what Monarchs proceeded to do for the following 600 years or so...

Given how the law treats those in/with power v. those without...

Given what the SCOTUS have just decreed...

Pick a better example.

 

[Freshwater]

This is the entire point.
You can say all you like about the 'legality' of it, but if either those in power, or the citizens (or both) blatantly disregard it's premise then it's nothing but a useless bit of old paper.

The very system/philosophy that the country has chosen to adopt ensures that all people are NOT born (or treated) equally.

Powerful words, written with good intentions, sure, but laughable in a practical sense in American society today.
(And let's be honest, MLK wouldn't have had to reference it if the majority of people espoused it's values/intent/legality).

(Also, randomly, why is Dick Smith's opinion worth more than anyone else's? )

The best ideals are still worth striving for no matter the past or how cynical people get. Not only that they are also embedded in their constitution. So regardless how far that country drifts from them or loses their vision, there is still hope that enough people get it.
Dick Smith only spoke what many were thinking including the Greens. But the Labour/Liberal parties both want huge immigration to hide recessions and fuel the growth myth, like a big Ponzi scheme.

 

[Mofra]

The best ideals are still worth striving for no matter the past or how cynical people get. Not only that they are also embedded in their constitution. So regardless how far that country drifts from them or loses their vision, there is still hope that enough people get it.
Dick Smith only spoke what many were thinking including the Greens. But the Labour/Liberal parties both want huge immigration to hide recessions and fuel the growth myth, like a big Ponzi scheme.

We're in the middle of a labour shortage as well. There's a global fight for all forms of capital right now.

Ideology aside, crunching the numbers indicates we need to at the very least get to a replacement rate of population to avoid a massive recession which would make life a lot tougher for everybody.

 

[MrChristo]

fuel the growth myth, like a big Ponzi scheme.

We could argue all day about the [lack of ] virtues of the US, but this, this I agree with 100%.

[I should say not necessarily in an immigration sense, but population as a whole is certainly part of the picture/puzzle].

PS. Is striving for equality, no matter how unachievable all a bit woke?

 

[BrisDog]

We're in the middle of a labour shortage as well. There's a global fight for all forms of capital right now.

Ideology aside, crunching the numbers indicates we need to at the very least get to a replacement rate of population to avoid a massive recession which would make life a lot tougher for everybody.

Our country needs to legalise Viagra without prescription as a priority.

 

[LittleG]

We're in the middle of a labour shortage as well. There's a global fight for all forms of capital right now.

Ideology aside, crunching the numbers indicates we need to at the very least get to a replacement rate of population to avoid a massive recession which would make life a lot tougher for everybody.

The lack of birth rate due to there being little incentive for men to get married and very little incentive for women to stay married; that IS the issue. Solve that and we don’t need migration…. A separated family needs 2 houses…. A together family needs 1 house. Our housing crisis in my area is due to the massive number of separated families. Under the current marriage laws and family court; it isn’t worth it for the majority of men to get married and have kids.

As a man going through the Family Court system, I don’t recommend marriage unless there is a solid prenup. Prenup must including 50/50 with the kids and the cash.

I was a solid left wing voter but those policies have led to the end of my marriage…. I can see the issues in the US and I would vote for the old GOP but not the current lot.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Looking for help.
I'm trying to find data on the incaseration rates in America between Obama, Trump and Biden.
Also, the international death tolls where America has been involved between the 3 presidents.

The numbers were trending down under Obama and Trump, but have climbed by 2% under Biden.

However, the devil is in the detail due to them having prisons spread across Local, State and Federal jurisdictions and the effect that Covid had on early release programs.

One thing is certain, when your system is set up to extract maximum profit from every step of the process, then the system is rotten to its core. Regardless of whomever is Governor, President or which party they represent.

As for international deaths. I can only assume that you mean conflicts under their watch. One would think that Obamas numbers would be highest given he was still dealing with the legacy of the US' 30 years of wastefully idiotic foreign policy in the Middle East and Afghanistan. These are institutional issues, not party political given the number of administrations that oversaw the debacle.

P.s. I'm neither a Trump nor Biden supporter. I think the whole system is now a complete failure. That these two are the best candidate's on offer is proof that we are living in an age of madness.

It's a choice between the devil and the deep dull blue sea. One that I don't envy any American having to make.

Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.
——- Joseph Goebbels

To paraphrase Karl Marx: History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.

I have never defended Trump or endorsed him in any way. A few here think that any explanation as why people actually hate so much of what the Democrats are, and stand for, that they might reluctantly vote for him. I’m obviously not talking about the rusted on MAGA’s but those that will decide the election. For the 10th time I don’t like the neo cons, the Republicans or Trump. But if you or anyone who seems left of centre can’t understand where modern leftism is at the moment with open borders, critical race theory, Palistinian madness, climate catastrophism etc. Only Brisdog has the ability to answer and call out the obvious undergraduate nonsense now masquerading as either Democratic policy or not called out by them because of their alliances. If you or they hate Trump why do they keep giving him every chance to win?

Let's take a closer look at some of your usual culture war societal grievances. From my perspective.

Open borders: Joe Biden tried to introduce some of the most draconian border control measures in American History early this year. Measures that were pretty much a Republicans wet dream. Donald Trump of course had Republicans in congress put the kibosh on any reform. Because he doesn't care about the border or anything else, beyond being able to campaign on the issue. It's an issue beyond the control of any government given the mess that 100+ years of US meddling has created to its south. Something that explains why people feel compelled to leave the nations of their birth and head towards the bright lights of the so-called Land of the Free. But sure, believe a populist dangling out the implausibility of building a 3100km long wall. Coincidentally a 3 word easily digested slogan. Or the deportation of 10 million people to parts unknown.

That'll fix things.

Any demagogue selling a fix to this issue is lying.

CRT: Is an obscure post graduate academic study of the law that relies on narrative when it comes to addressing historical racial inequities in American Society. It's a right wing myth that its taught to children. Or that it has any real impact outside of this very narrow field of academic study.

Palestinian madness: You seem to imply that being Pro-Palestinian equates with being Pro-Homas. Nothing could be further from the truth. Or that Isreals disproportionate retaliation to Hamas' heinous act (A war crime) that has seen at least 35,000 people 50% of which are children and the elderly and that the collective punishment of Palestinians (A verifiable war crime) the decimation of Gaza's civic infrastructure should go without any pushback. No matter how feeble, in a corporate media landscape or in a world where the ECAJ rushes to blacklist and call anybody opposed to Israel's actions an anti-semite. The parallels the US response after 911 are there for anybody paying attention to see and the outcome will be the same.

Climate Catastrophism: You understand that both coasts of the United States are currently experiencing the highest temperatures on record. Right?

Wokeism, DEI and whatever else you prattle on about. Is little more than a non-definable political correctness gone mad narrative from days gone by, repackaged for the virality of the internet age. Its a confection designed to bring political and social conservatives to a boil. Its all just another in a long line of boogeymen that the right needs to terrify its followers into believing that their god given rights to stay on top of the pile is somehow being undermined. Typically by people of colour.

One mans undergraduate nonsense. Is another's 80+ years of progress towards a degree of social equality. In one of the planets least equitable countries. A country that has been given over completely to its corporate culture of Robber Baron Venture capitalist and tech Billionaire's. The 1800's are the new black.

 

[Bevoman]

The reason it isn't done now is Harris is only real plausible candidate at this stage and is highly unlikely she is winning either as she won't move the needle in swing states which is all that really counts.

I wouldn't say they were shunned, underperformed against expectations but they have a large amount of seats in parliament. France is basically ****ed for foreseeable future as they are now left with an ungovernable parliament, with central's now having no power with far left and far right in so many seats nothing will get done in years ahead for them likely means Macron will be gone come next election as the country will be in disarray.

Harris will not get the gig they will look for popular candidate like the Governor of California, Gavin Newsom

 

[Freshwater]

We could argue all day about the [lack of ] virtues of the US, but this, this I agree with 100%.

[I should say not necessarily in an immigration sense, but population as a whole is certainly part of the picture/puzzle].

PS. Is striving for equality, no matter how unachievable all a bit woke?

Equality of opportunity is the aim, of course. We must be equal before the law…not after it.
Equality of outcome is a completely different instinct and idea, that doesn’t and can’t work.
“Human beings are born with different capacities, if they are free they can’t be equal, if they are equal they can’t be free” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

 

[Freshwater]

The numbers were trending down under Obama and Trump, but have climbed by 2% under Biden.

However, the devil is in the detail due to them having prisons spread across Local, State and Federal jurisdictions and the effect that Covid had on early release programs.

One thing is certain, when your system is set up to extract maximum profit from every step of the process, then the system is rotten to its core. Regardless of whomever is Governor, President or which party they represent.

As for international deaths. I can only assume that you mean conflicts under their watch. One would think that Obamas numbers would be highest given he was still dealing with the legacy of the US' 30 years of wastefully idiotic foreign policy in the Middle East and Afghanistan. These are institutional issues, not party political given the number of administrations that oversaw the debacle.

It's a choice between the devil and the deep dull blue sea. One that I don't envy any American having to make.



To paraphrase Karl Marx: History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.




Let's take a closer look at some of your usual culture war societal grievances. From my perspective.

Open borders: Joe Biden tried to introduce some of the most draconian border control measures in American History early this year. Measures that were pretty much a Republicans wet dream. Donald Trump of course had Republicans in congress put the kibosh on any reform. Because he doesn't care about the border or anything else, beyond being able to campaign on the issue. It's an issue beyond the control of any government given the mess that 100+ years of US meddling has created to its south. Something that explains why people feel compelled to leave the nations of their birth and head towards the bright lights of the so-called Land of the Free. But sure, believe a populist dangling out the implausibility of building a 3100km long wall. Coincidentally a 3 word easily digested slogan. Or the deportation of 10 million people to parts unknown.

That'll fix things.

Any demagogue selling a fix to this issue is lying.

CRT: Is an obscure post graduate academic study of the law that relies on narrative when it comes to addressing historical racial inequities in American Society. It's a right wing myth that its taught to children. Or that it has any real impact outside of this very narrow field of academic study.

Palestinian madness: You seem to imply that being Pro-Palestinian equates with being Pro-Homas. Nothing could be further from the truth. Or that Isreals disproportionate retaliation to Hamas' heinous act (A war crime) that has seen at least 35,000 people 50% of which are children and the elderly and that the collective punishment of Palestinians (A verifiable war crime) the decimation of Gaza's civic infrastructure should go without any pushback. No matter how feeble, in a corporate media landscape or in a world where the ECAJ rushes to blacklist and call anybody opposed to Israel's actions an anti-semite. The parallels the US response after 911 are there for anybody paying attention to see and the outcome will be the same.

Climate Catastrophism: You understand that both coasts of the United States are currently experiencing the highest temperatures on record. Right?

Wokeism, DEI and whatever else you prattle on about. Is little more than a non-definable political correctness gone mad narrative from days gone by, repacked for the virality of the internet age. Its a confection designed to bring political and social conservatives to a boil. Its all just another in a long line of boogeymen that the right needs to terrify its followers into believing that their god given rights to stay on top of the pile is somehow being undermined. Typically by people of colour.

One mans undergraduate nonsense. Is another's 80+ years of progress towards a degree of social equality. In one of the planets least equitable countries. A country that has been given over completely to its corporate culture of Robber Baron Venture capitalist and tech Billionaire's. The 1800's are the new black.

I disagree about CRT and DEI just being undergraduate rubbish. It is now creeping into the corporate world even the trades. I’ve seen good old workers been discarded because the company had quotas it needed to fulfill. And those that took their place were far from qualified for the role, but these blokes were not only devastated but are now struggling financially and with their families. This is having real impact and problems.
When Laura Kane was hired, and has shown she is doing a pretty poor job at her role, the discussion online was about her being a ‘diversity hire’. She may have got the job legitimately? And if this is the case we need to allow her time. If she was a ‘diversity hire’ I’d get rid a her straight away. How would we know? She’s so privileged anyway why wouldn’t the hire go to a public school kid from Broady Tech? WH doesn’t public school trump gender on the hierarchy? Middleclass wanting to feel good about themselves?
There are black students on American university campus’s, who are there legitimately, complaining because no one is respecting them because everyone looks at them as ‘diversity hires’.
This stuff is paternalistic and often worse, meddling and authoritarian. It is regressive and against the principles of progress and liberalism. I find it morally and ethically wrong, it’s also against the spirit of democracy and the American ideals of liberty and equality BEFORE the law.

 

[BrisDog]

The lack of birth rate due to there being little incentive for men to get married and very little incentive for women to stay married; that IS the issue. Solve that and we don’t need migration…. A separated family needs 2 houses…. A together family needs 1 house. Our housing crisis in my area is due to the massive number of separated families. Under the current marriage laws and family court; it isn’t worth it for the majority of men to get married and have kids.

As a man going through the Family Court system, I don’t recommend marriage unless there is a solid prenup. Prenup must including 50/50 with the kids and the cash.

I was a solid left wing voter but those policies have led to the end of my marriage…. I can see the issues in the US and I would vote for the old GOP but not the current lot.

Sorry to hear about your plight LittleG. No doubt a horrible experience you are
going through right now

You’re right - marriage is a load of sh*t -
a status symbol for those in their late 20’s or early 30’s. The hard part begins when both parties become fat and ugly. However a child growing up with Mum & Dad under the same roof is obviously ideal…..unless one is an absolute campaigner. That is why I stick around with my Missus. I could upgrade to any Thai or Ukrainian bird in her early 20’s but I choose to stick it out for the little one (not the little Asian).

Similarly, I have moved to the centre, maybe even centre right. No, I don’t listen to Jordan Peterson or Joe Rogan. Sam Harris and Bill Maher is where I am at. Atheist’s who despise Trump, but could see a year ago that change was required. I am going to have a very hard decision to make this year in our own Federal Election.

 

[BrisDog]

Harris will not get the gig they will look for popular candidate like the Governor of California, Gavin Newsom

Unlikely, I think he is a great candidate but if they overlook Harris they would be very unlikely to replace her with another Californian. They have California sewn up obviously. Gretchen Whitmer (Michigan), Josh Sharipo (Penn) etc would give you one of the swing states. A combination of the two may give you both states that they need to win.

John Fetterman would make a great VP pick and invigorate the youth vote. Have a look at his for those who haven’t seen him.

 

[LittleG]

Sorry to hear about your plight LittleG. No doubt a horrible experience you are
going through right now

You’re right - marriage is a load of sh*t -
a status symbol for those in their late 20’s or early 30’s. The hard part begins when both parties become fat and ugly. However a child growing up with Mum & Dad under the same roof is obviously ideal…..unless one is an absolute campaigner. That is why I stick around with my Missus. I could upgrade to any Thai or Ukrainian bird in her early 20’s but I choose to stick it out for the little one (not the little Asian).

Similarly, I have moved to the centre, maybe even centre right. No, I don’t listen to Jordan Peterson or Joe Rogan. Sam Harris and Bill Maher is where I am at. Atheist’s who despise Trump, but could see a year ago that change was required. I am going to have a very hard decision to make this year in our own Federal Election.

I chose to try and work to improve the marriage but ….. she chose not to.

I am probably going to end up with a young wife from overseas and start again. I am not against marriage but I am solidly against the feminism that is promoting women’s rights over children’s rights.

Kids should come first. They deserve better.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Unlikely, I think he is a great candidate but if they overlook Harris they would be very unlikely to replace her with another Californian. They have California sewn up obviously. Gretchen Whitmer (Michigan), Josh Sharipo (Penn) etc would give you one of the swing states. A combination of the two may give you both states that they need to win.

John Fetterman would make a great VP pick and invigorate the youth vote. Have a look at his for those who haven’t seen him.

The electoral college joke means the whole election will swing on Pennsylvania and maybe Michigan.

They only really have to win those two - so I like the strategy.

 

[BEaston]

I chose to try and work to improve the marriage but ….. she chose not to.

I am probably going to end up with a young wife from overseas and start again. I am not against marriage but I am solidly against the feminism that is promoting women’s rights over children’s rights.

Kids should come first. They deserve better.

What feminism promotes women's rights over children's? Any examples? Feel free not to answer if it's too personal.

Mostly what I see in parent circles are women somewhat discarding their feminist ideals in support of their children, so that comment just piqued my interest.

 

[Mofra]

Unlikely, I think he is a great candidate but if they overlook Harris they would be very unlikely to replace her with another Californian. They have California sewn up obviously. Gretchen Whitmer (Michigan), Josh Sharipo (Penn) etc would give you one of the swing states. A combination of the two may give you both states that they need to win.

John Fetterman would make a great VP pick and invigorate the youth vote. Have a look at his for those who haven’t seen him.

Unfortunately that is correct. They'll go for a swing state candidate regardless of whether it's the best person.
Not that it lets the GOP off the hook for their behaviour either.

 

[LittleG]

What feminism promotes women's rights over children's? Any examples? Feel free not to answer if it's too personal.

Mostly what I see in parent circles are women somewhat discarding their feminist ideals in support of their children, so that comment just piqued my interest.

Career before family.

I wish my ex-wife had got into the parent circles that you are in, rather than the career and misandry crowd she is in.

 

[MrChristo]

Career before family.

I wish my ex-wife had got into the parent circles that you are in, rather than the career and misandry crowd she is in.

This is going to sound absolutely sh1t, and I apologise profusely...
...but did you discuss this while you were discussing having a child?

Surely the point of having a life partner is discussing how you want life to play out?

 

[MrChristo]

1) I disagree about CRT and DEI just being undergraduate rubbish. It is now creeping into the corporate world...
2)When Laura Kane was hired, and has shown she is doing a pretty poor job at her role, the discussion online was about her being a ‘diversity hire’. She may have got the job legitimately? And if this is the case we need to allow her time. If she was a ‘diversity hire’ I’d get rid a her straight away. How would we know? She’s so privileged anyway why wouldn’t the hire go to a public school kid from Broady Tech? WH doesn’t public school trump gender on the hierarchy? Middleclass wanting to feel good about themselves?
3) I find it morally and ethically wrong, it’s also against the spirit of democracy and the American ideals of liberty and equality BEFORE the law.

1. The corporate world, where females have been underpaid and deliberately mistreated for ever?
Where minorities have been consistently discriminated against for ever?

2. That is essentially a rant from you with no meaning at all.
"She may have got the job legitimately".

What a terrible path to go down.
It's entirely possible for a person to get a job on merit and then not be good at it (in your eyes), or in fact be filling the role entirely as intended, without having to explain their decisions/actions to you personally.

3. You keep saying it, but it's rubbish. Of course people are judged prior to any law proceedings.

Canberra man accuses police of racial profiling after arrest for trespassing at his own home - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

An obvious recent case here. There'd be dozens per week [yeah, citation needed].

How's the 'investigation' into Trump's involvement with Epstein coming along?
Multiple provable mentions in flight logs, multiple accusations, multiple million dollar pay outs/settlements...

Liberty oh, ho yes!
Equality, not one fark1ng chance.

 

[BrisDog]

This is going to sound absolutely sh1t, and I apologise profusely...
...but did you discuss this while you were discussing having a child?

Surely the point of having a life partner is discussing how you want life to play out?

Not the kind of thing we discussed when my partner had a bundle of joy in her belly. Just the the joy of what fun we had ahead with a little one.

 

[LittleG]

This is going to sound absolutely sh1t, and I apologise profusely...
...but did you discuss this while you were discussing having a child?

Surely the point of having a life partner is discussing how you want life to play out?

Yes. You can only be accountable for your own actions. I learnt that the key attribute to look for in a woman is accountability. Nothing else matters as much as that. It was my fault for not testing her enough prior to agreeing to marry her.

No one should take offence to your question.

 

[H Dolphin]

The lack of birth rate due to there being little incentive for men to get married and very little incentive for women to stay married; that IS the issue. Solve that and we don’t need migration…. A separated family needs 2 houses…. A together family needs 1 house. Our housing crisis in my area is due to the massive number of separated families. Under the current marriage laws and family court; it isn’t worth it for the majority of men to get married and have kids.

As a man going through the Family Court system, I don’t recommend marriage unless there is a solid prenup. Prenup must including 50/50 with the kids and the cash.

I was a solid left wing voter but those policies have led to the end of my marriage…. I can see thei issues in the US and I would vote for the old GOP but not the current lot.

Declining birthrates is a worldwide phenomenon, western feminism contributes but isn’t one of the major reasons, urbanisation and industrialisation. Look up Peter Zeihan on YouTube. Sympathies, you wouldn’t wish family breakup on your worst enemy.