The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

[Norm De Guerre]

My bad. They're both genocide. One being opposed by the Biden administration and one being supported by the Biden administration.

Genocide is bad.

US foreign policy is always self serving and bad.

Who said this board can't reach consensus.

/thread.

 

[Freshwater]

Wow.



There you go then, from November 10, 2016. Hillarys full concession speech.

Show me Trumps......Oh thats right, he still hasnt "Stolen election" lies "stolen election" more lies "stolen election", same lies, riot, deaths.....

Yeah, yeah, totally comparable.

Btw if I was Hillary Id be blaming Comey. Totally unethical and baseless last minute announcement that threw a spanner in her election campaign. And, wasnt he a Republican?? Talk about potential conspiracies.....

Anyway, you be you. Keep denying the facts, just believe whatever you choose, and then spout nonsense online.

I get it, Trump is a baby, sore loser, sounds like Sydney Swans supporters. Hillary was gracious there, no doubt. But then she went around the world complaining afterwards and really helped delegitimise the electoral system with all sorts of conspiracy theories. She did a lot of damage that someone even sookier like Trump took to another level, and maybe then some more.

 

[Freshwater]

Freshwater, some news on your ‘Independent’:

RFK Jr reportedly held Trump talks about endorsement and possible job

Independent candidate said to have discussed potential role if Trump were to win White House in November

www.theguardian.com

I don’t mind this. I suppose it’s like Peter Garret joining the Labor party, when he didn’t agree with much in the Labor party but felt he could do better inside the tent rather than outside? Peter was ultimately burnt by Kevin Rudd and partly regrets that decision. Kennedy’s career fighting against big corporate polluters and pharmaceutical companies and his general anti war stance is admirable to me. A cabinet with diversity of opinions hopefully is better if Trump wins?

 

[Norm De Guerre]

So Trump and his sycophants want to litigate to get Biden back

Trump over 4000 litigations and growing by the minute.
this is the bloke people are arguing for on here, fmd

This is why Harris was the only viable alternative when Biden stood aside.

Any state that had already drawn up the ballot was liable to face an avalanche of Republican and Right wing interest groups legal challenges. The party that tried to stage a coup will huff and puff about this undermining democracy, but the mechanism for handing down power through the executive is long established.

I get it, Trump is a baby, sore loser, sounds like Sydney Swans supporters. Hillary was gracious there, no doubt. But then she went around the world complaining afterwards and really helped delegitimise the electoral system with all sorts of conspiracy theories. She did a lot of damage that someone even sookier like Trump took to another level, and maybe then some more.

Trump didnt take it to another level. He invented and mastered the game of delegitimising the electoral process.

He's...

A man who's second reflex after breathing is to lie.

A candidate who said the result was rigged before the election.

A President who said the result was rigged after his election.

A President who said the result was rigged when he oversaw the loss of the mid terms.

A President who said the result was rigged when he oversaw the loss of the Senate.

A President who said it was rigged before the election. Thus driving down his own turnout.

A President who said it was rigged after his election defeat.

A candidate who campaigns everyday that the coming election is being rigged.

But sure, Hillary a person so irrelevant to the subject at hand that it's laughable to summon her name from the political grave is the one responsible for undermining the electoral process.

You're not even trying to hide your disingenuousness anymore.

 

[Freshwater]

This is why Harris was the only viable alternative when Biden stood aside.

Any state that had already drawn up the ballot was liable to face an avalanche of Republican and Right wing interest groups legal challenges. The party that tried to stage a coup will huff and puff about this undermining democracy, but the mechanism for handing down power through the executive is long established.


Trump didnt take it to another level. He invented and mastered the game of delegitimising the electoral process.

He's...

A man who's second reflex after breathing is to lie.

A candidate who said the result was rigged before the election.

A President who said the result was rigged after his election.

A President who said the result was rigged when he oversaw the loss of the mid terms.

A President who said the result was rigged when he oversaw the loss of the Senate.

A President who said it was rigged before the election. Thus driving down his own turnout.

A President who said it was rigged after his election defeat.

A candidate who campaigns everyday that the coming election is being rigged.

But sure, Hillary a person so irrelevant to the subject at hand that it's laughable to summon her name from the political grave is the one responsible for undermining the electoral process.

You're not even trying to hide your disingenuousness anymore.

The question was about Hilary.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

The question was about Hilary.

And it's been pointed out ad nauseam that she conceded.

Then of course you pivoted to her undermining the electoral process.

Im merely pointing out the actually underminer.

 

[Freshwater]

And it's been pointed out ad nauseam that she conceded.

Then of course you pivoted to her undermining the electoral process.

Im merely pointing out the actually underminer.

Did she not go around for a long period of time telling the world it was the Russians and Donald Trump who cheated her out of the election?

 

[BrisDog]

Did she not go around for a long period of time telling the world it was the Russians and Donald Trump who cheated her out of the election?

Hillary was before her time calling out Tulsi Gabbard as a right-wing, Russian sponsored shill. Kudo’s for Hillary on that one.

As pointed out earlier by KH, James Comey gave us Donald Trump, he completely hosed over Hillary, and that is why we are where we are.

 

[bobs head soup]

Did she not go around for a long period of time telling the world it was the Russians and Donald Trump who cheated her out of the election?

What she claimed was that Russian based online bots saturated the internet with pro-Trump posts.

The FBI investigated this and found it to be true.

She never queried the voting process itself or the system. She conceded losing.

Saying external actors impacted people's choices (found to be true) is a world of difference to claiming the system itself defrauded you (without evidence) and inciting supporters to riot and violence.

 

[BrisDog]

Did you even read the article? He's pretty damming of both Trump & and the Biden administration.

First paragraph of the article:

The independent presidential candidate Robert F Kennedy Jr reportedly held recent talks with Donald Trump about endorsing his campaign for a second presidency and – if successful – taking a job in his administration.

That does not sound terribly independent to me.

 

[Freshwater]

What she claimed was that Russian based online bots saturated the internet with pro-Trump posts.

The FBI investigated this and found it to be true.

She never queried the voting process itself or the system. She conceded losing.

Saying external actors impacted people's choices (found to be true) is a world of difference to claiming the system itself defrauded you (without evidence) and inciting supporters to riot and vio

Oh the Russians influenced the result. It was petulant, it was a diversion from her own failings. Trump did the same but much much worse. The questioning the results groundwork had been laid down, bad precedents. She called half the country deplorables, which showed she was never going to represent them because she didn’t know them.
To a lot of you on here, Trump is horrible, and I can say, you are correct. But you guys seem so blinded to any failings in the Democrats. It’s almost like you barrack for the left wing view of everything. Left is no more moral than right, never has been. On some issues yes and some issues no, this is obviously where the disputes are, but the pull of the two views create the relative harmonious, rich democratic society we have that is better than nearly any in history.
If you guys can’t see why good decent people are prepared to vote for a prick like Trump you must be blind to what the Dem’s stand for these days.

 

[bobs head soup]

Oh the Russians influenced the result. It was petulant, it was a diversion from her own failings. Trump did the same but much much worse. The questioning the results groundwork had been laid down, bad precedents. She called half the country deplorables, which showed she was never going to represent them because she didn’t know them.
To a lot of you on here, Trump is horrible, and I can say, you are correct. But you guys seem so blinded to any failings in the Democrats. It’s almost like you barrack for the left wing view of everything. Left is no more moral than right, never has been. On some issues yes and some issues no, this is obviously where the disputes are, but the pull of the two views create the relative harmonious, rich democratic society we have that is better than nearly any in history.
If you guys can’t see why good decent people are prepared to vote for a prick like Trump you must be blind to what the Dem’s stand for these days.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.reuters.com/article/world/factbox-key-findings-from-senate-inquiry-into-russian-interference-in-2016-us-idUSKCN25E2OY/&ved=2ahUKEwj7msDnkbyHAxVds1YBHQEIIV4QFnoECBwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3sVjARGhTPX6rpAX8mH-7q

 

[H Dolphin]

Biden says he rang Trump after the shooting incident and the 2 had a conversation. Did Biden ring because
(a) he's a good bloke and it's the decent thing to do; or
(b) he wanted to find out what Trump's intentions are so as to assess his (Biden's) prospects for the election ?
What's the reason for your choice ?

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Did she not go around for a long period of time telling the world it was the Russians and Donald Trump who cheated her out of the election?

You mean what she has said was is in line with the findings of the Mueller report then?

The same report that found.

That Russia tried to hack Hillary Clintons office five hours after Trump called on Moscow to find her deleted emails.

Two Trump campaign officials — Paul Manafort and Rick Gates — provided polling information to a Russian oligarch Gates believed was a “spy” for the Kremlin

Trump foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos, with Trump’s approval, tried to arrange meetings between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin

The report makes it clear that: 1) the Russian government tried to help Trump win; 2) the Trump campaign was eager to benefit from hackings targeting Democrats; and 3) Trump’s campaign advisers had a lot of troubling ties to Russia.

You really are bad at this.

 

[Freshwater]

You mean what she has said was is in line with the findings of the Mueller report then?

The same report that found.

That Russia tried to hack Hillary Clintons office five hours after Trump called on Moscow to find her deleted emails.

Two Trump campaign officials — Paul Manafort and Rick Gates — provided polling information to a Russian oligarch Gates believed was a “spy” for the Kremlin

Trump foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos, with Trump’s approval, tried to arrange meetings between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin

The report makes it clear that: 1) the Russian government tried to help Trump win; 2) the Trump campaign was eager to benefit from hackings targeting Democrats; and 3) Trump’s campaign advisers had a lot of troubling ties to Russia.

You really are bad at this.

Maybe? It did not affect the results one iota. To keep complaining about it was, again, not looking in the mirror. It cast doubts on future elections. Just so conspiratorial.

 

[King Harold]

Someone on here hasn’t read the Muller findings, or has any understanding of his final report.

We are trying to deal with someone who is deaf to anything that resembles reality. It’s just sad.

Tucker Carlson will do that to you !

 

[Freshwater]

If someone hasn’t read the Twitter files and not understood their significance then how do we debate.
What Elon found after he bought Twitter and looked under the ‘hood’ was very significant. He basically said to non partisan journalists go for see what you can find and it showed how the Democrats block many stories from surfacing, amongst many other things.
But again, to many on here one side demons the other side saints.

 

[King Harold]

Lost cause
Cool aid messes with your brain

 

[stefcep]

If someone hasn’t read the Twitter files and not understood their significance then how do we debate.
What Elon found after he bought Twitter and looked under the ‘hood’ was very significant. He basically said to non partisan journalists go for see what you can find and it showed how the Democrats block many stories from surfacing, amongst many other things.
But again, to many on here one side demons the other side saints.

The left loved Twitter when their people on he inside were able to control the flow of information. Then Musk buys it and says enough of this shit, you're all fired, they then started to cry in their cornflakes and started to hate him and the platform. But he's too rich to cancel, so they can do nothing about it but cry in their cornflakes.

 

[Outback Footy]

The question was about Hilary.

No, you distracted the conversation to Hillary when the original discussion was that Trump and Biden were equally bad men. That was an easily disproven lie so the reflex reaction was to change the subject. And then your claim that she didnt concede was even easier to disprove.

Even Biden is now irrelevant. Its now Trump (evil convicted lying narcissist) v Kamala.

As she beautifully puts it " I prosecuted sex offenders and fraudsters. He is one"

 

[Outback Footy]

You won’t get a coherent response.
Best you will get some vague history lesson that argues they are all the same.

Good faith debate is good, healthy ect

I don’t mind people having a different view to me , even on Trump , but don’t try telling me I need to suspend all reality to participate in that debate.

Yeah I know. Its sad. But Ive got a quiet day at work.

Debate ends when the issue at hand suddenly becomes something entirely different. in this case "Biden and Trump equally bad". "Not so". "Well Hillary didnt concede either". "Yes she did". "Well ok maybe but then she bitched about it....she started it".

I hate to generalise but it seems the right wing of politics constantly uses this tactic. In the USA we have on party that wants to govern and debate, and the other which wants to point score, enflame emotion and will do absolutely anything to hold onto power.

 

[Outback Footy]

Oh the Russians influenced the result. It was petulant, it was a diversion from her own failings. Trump did the same but much much worse. The questioning the results groundwork had been laid down, bad precedents. She called half the country deplorables, which showed she was never going to represent them because she didn’t know them.
To a lot of you on here, Trump is horrible, and I can say, you are correct. But you guys seem so blinded to any failings in the Democrats. It’s almost like you barrack for the left wing view of everything. Left is no more moral than right, never has been. On some issues yes and some issues no, this is obviously where the disputes are, but the pull of the two views create the relative harmonious, rich democratic society we have that is better than nearly any in history.
If you guys can’t see why good decent people are prepared to vote for a prick like Trump you must be blind to what the Dem’s stand for these days.

And if you cant see that the publicans have given up on governing and simply want to fight culture war BS youre blind. One side of american politics wants to govern, one doesnt. They are simply not comparable any more. Its comparing a political party with an MMA cage fight.

 

[Bulldog1954]

And if you cant see that the publicans have given up on governing and simply want to fight culture war BS youre blind. One side of american politics wants to govern, one doesnt. They are simply not comparable any more. Its comparing a political party with an MMA cage fight.

Exactly. In Trumps last term he kept on promising a health plan and never delivered, one of numerous lies he told.

He is good at campaigning though and scaring his base about the horrible brown people apparently pouring in to the country, the horrible trans people and the devastating war on Christmas.

 

[Freshwater]

And if you cant see that the publicans have given up on governing and simply want to fight culture war BS youre blind. One side of american politics wants to govern, one doesnt. They are simply not comparable any more. Its comparing a political party with an MMA cage fight.

This reply shows 100% what I’m trying to say, you barrack for one side. You really actually think one side is better than the other? Half the country are conservative, they are mostly good people just like the progressives are mostly good too. Sure the Republicans have a dickhead in Trump, but he is a bully, the Dems have many dickheads too maybe not quite as big as Trump but up there. Left is NOT better than Right!! Right is not better than left! Barrack for the bulldogs not a side of politics, because you’ll never be left enough or right enough for the next generation. Because eventually it turns right around on itself eg like we now have ‘left wingers’ not believing in Martin Luther King’s ideals judging someone by their character not their skin colour or right wingers believing in a twice divorced serial liar.

 

[Outback Footy]

This reply shows 100% what I’m trying to say, you barrack for one side. You really actually think one side is better than the other? Half the country are conservative, they are mostly good people just like the progressives are mostly good too. Sure the Republicans have a dickhead in Trump, but he is a bully, the Dems have many dickheads too maybe not quite as big as Trump but up there. Left is NOT better than Right!! Right is not better than left! Barrack for the bulldogs not a side of politics, because you’ll never be left enough or right enough for the next generation. Because eventually it turns right around on itself eg like we now have ‘left wingers’ not believing in Martin Luther King’s ideals judging someone by their character not their skin colour or right wingers believing in a twice divorced serial liar.

Theres your problem. You actually think they're the same. Or at least that rationale lets you excuse the publicans. The two sides of US politics are absolutely no longer comparable. Politicians v MMA cage fighters.

The publican pollies are very different to most conservatives in the states. Most conservatives are appalled by MAGA and Trumpism. I was comparing the performances in congress.

Dems "fixed" healthcare, pubs want to break it again
Dems fixed infrastructure, ppubs voted against it but are now opening the bridges etc.
Publicans lowered taxes, increased the deficit and now blame dems for the bill.

Remember Trumps almost daily promises of action on infrastructure? Never happened. Joe did it. Remember the furor around immigartion recently/currently. The dems met with some publicans who wanted to achieve a fix, compromised, found a fix to migration and Trump and his cohorts blocked it so they would have an issue to campaign on. The publicans dont want to fix things and havent since the advent of the tea party. Theyre not interested in equity and fairness and helping the people, purely in power and helping themselves and their mates.

Not dissimilar here in Oz. Duttons crazy nuclear dream is just an excuse to keep right on the fossil fuel path for another 30 years. Whos in bed with the ff industry? Thats right, the Libnat party. In the same way one side of Australian politics is and always will be better for the environment, the other side will always be on the side of big business. They are not the same.