Analysis The Rebuilds of Geelong and Richmond and their Future Prospects

[Cleansweep17]

You just listed a few of the greatest eras in the 150+ years history of footy as an apparent claim as to why 4 flags 6 grand finals and once missing the finals is unimpressive across 16 years. Which makes zero sense.

Again, incredibly stupid

I said isn’t “that impressive” still good but there has been better. You guys are treating it like the biggest flex in the world for some weird reason.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Look at how much of our 2022 premiership side consisted of rookie picks, late picks and FA. Nothing is set in stone.

Our likely round 1 side, with ages in brackets, is:

FB: J.Henry(25) De Koning(23) Z.Guthrie(25)
HB: Duncan(32) Kolo(28) Stewart(31)

C: Holmes(21) Bruhn(22) Blicavs(33)
FOL: Stanley(33) Bowes(26) Dangerfield(34)

HF: Miers(25) Cameron(31) Dempsey(20)
FF: O.Henry(21) Hawkins(35) Stengle(25)

IC: Close(25) Clark(19) Atkins(28) O'Connor(27)

7 veterans, 9 in their prime and 6 in their first few seasons. So a couple of veterans on each line and then a fairly young/prime aged bench.

If Richmond had Lynch and Martin available you'd have even more veterans in the side. Martin, Lynch, Prestia, Grimes, Vlastuin, Pickett, Broad, Naismith (Nank when he's back) and McIntosh. That's 9.

Ok we’ll wait until you prove it then. If you win a final this year then I’ll eat my words.

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

I said isn’t “that impressive” still good but there has been better. You guys are treating it like the biggest flex in the world for some weird reason.

Nice back-pedaling!

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

Ok we’ll wait until you prove it then. If you win a final this year then I’ll eat my words.

Didn’t you say something similar in 22? Did you eat your words then?

 

[Cleansweep17]

Nice back-pedaling!

Read his reply where he quoted my comment. It had the words “that impressive” not my fault none of you can read.

 

[Mr Meow]

Ok we’ll wait until you prove it then. If you win a final this year then I’ll eat my words.

But you avoided the point of my post. Once Lynch and Martin come back in Richmond will be playing two more veterans than "old" Geelong. And Geelong veterans tend to perform more like Rolls Royces; Richmond's are a bit iffy. Then if you look at the 25 and unders for Geelong, there's more depth and class overall coming through.

So from a list perspective, I'm struggling to see what gets you more excited about Richmond in the short, medium or long term. You just have to hope to finish bottom 4 for a few years and nail the picks, then assess how things might look in a decade. Not a very joyous experience as a supporter, I'd imagine.

Who are your most exciting few players under 22 years old, and what have they shown at AFL level?

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

Success is winning flags. 4 in 16 isn’t that impressive.

This you?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I said isn’t “that impressive” still good but there has been better. You guys are treating it like the biggest flex in the world for some weird reason.

It is incredibly impressive. Only team to achieve such an amazing run this century. No other team has been able to achieve such a dynasty this century thus far.

Most of the eras you listed before were during amateur vfl days as well.

 

[Footy Smarts]

We had some shocking performances today. Ryan, Dow, and Koschitzke playing fairly key roles just got smashed.

I think it'll be a really tough review for Yze. Not the loss as much as some of those individual performances.

Ryan and Koschitzke 6 touches and 0 score involvements between them.
Dow 6 touches as a full time mid.
Young toweled up, looked lost once the ball hit the deck and turned it over the rare times he got it.

The problem is these guys aren't kids. They're all 22-25 and played 50+ games across VFL and AFL. They weren't just poor they were completely uncompetitive.

A sub 5 gamer you forgive. But at 22+ with a few full seasons of VFL or AFL under their belt they have to be better than that. They're the types of performances that end careers.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Richmond are about 2 years ahead of Geelong in the rebuild stage.

The delusion is strong.

Top 25 picks in the last 5 drafts currently on their list:

Richmond - 3. Gibcus, Dow and Brown.
Geelong - 8. De Koning, Holmes, Bruhn, O Henry, Knevitt, Conway, Clark, O'Sullivan.

Richmond's trio have combined for 38 games. Dow is into his 5th season having managed only 18 games and just chalked up 6 touches in a match as a full time mid. Brown isn't in the side and has played 1 AFL game and 26 VFL games. That 1 game was gifted to him in the last round dead rubber last year.

Geelong's 8 players have combined for 202 games.

Geelong's rebuild is pretty obvious. Richmond's hasn't started.

 

[Cleansweep17]

But you avoided the point of my post. Once Lynch and Martin come back in Richmond will be playing two more veterans than "old" Geelong. And Geelong veterans tend to perform more like Rolls Royces; Richmond's are a bit iffy. Then if you look at the 25 and unders for Geelong, there's more depth and class overall coming through.

So from a list perspective, I'm struggling to see what gets you more excited about Richmond in the short, medium or long term. You just have to hope to finish bottom 4 for a few years and nail the picks, then assess how things might look in a decade. Not a very joyous experience as a supporter, I'd imagine.

Who are your most exciting few players under 22 years old, and what have they shown at AFL level?

The ladder position will show us the results. There is no point in arguing in circles about nothing again.

If what you are saying is true and you have better depth essentially everywhere you should have no trouble winning a final and doing one better than us in 2022 right?

 

[Mr Meow]

The ladder position will show us the results. There is no point in arguing in circles about nothing again.

If what you are saying is true and you have better depth essentially everywhere you should have no trouble winning a final and doing one better than us in 2022 right?

So you're conceding that Richmond are playing more veterans than the side you call "really old" and that Geelong side has more established quality youth as well.

It seems you really aren't confident about Richmond's list in the short, medium or long term.

 

[Cleansweep17]

It is incredibly impressive. Only team to achieve such an amazing run this century. No other team has been able to achieve such a dynasty this century thus far.

Most of the eras you listed before were during amateur vfl days as well.

Wait hang on NOW you want to devalue the VFL era after giving me so much crap for doing it.

 

[Cleansweep17]

So you're conceding that Richmond are playing more veterans than the side you call "really old" and that Geelong side has more established quality youth as well.

It seems you really aren't confident about Richmond's list in the short, medium or long term.

I know they are all average/poor apart from Lynch and Dusty like you said and we have been shedding them. We aren’t relying on them as much as you. I’m not sure what your point is.

And no I’m not confident nobody from any club entering a rebuild should be, I’m a realist. It’s so easy to stuff up a list that only people with the biggest egos like Geelong supporters will assume it’s all going to be good and cherry ripe like last time. It’s quite frankly delusion of the highest level.

So I say prove it with your ladder position this year and we’ll see who has the egg on their face. Win a final and come back to me.

 

[RUNVS]

Old Mate Chrissy Scott doesn't want any rebuilds. Making a big offer for Bailey Smith. He is clearly driven to take the Cats down the same path as Clarko took the Hawks in 2016, trading the farm for Tom Mitchell and Jaeger O'Meara. One-way ticket to no-man's land.

Baily Smith feels very overrated to me. He isn't a bad player by any means, he is a quality player, but he isn't the sort of player to lead a club. Smith wouldn't even be a top 3 player at the Bulldogs, and I doubt he is ever going to be a top 10 player of the competition.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Old Mate Chrissy Scott doesn't want any rebuilds. Making a big offer for Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

. He is clearly driven to take the Cats down the same path as Clarko took the Hawks in 2016, trading the farm for Tom Mitchell and Jaeger O'Meara

2

Jaeger O'meara

Age

30

Ht

184cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.9

5star

K

12.4

5star

HB

10.6

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

5.5

5star

CL

4.8

5star

D

20.9

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

7.9

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.0

5star

D

19.4

5star

K

11.4

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

4.6

5star

. One-way ticket to no-man's land.

Great news.

I’m starting to like Chris Scott

 

[Mr Meow]

I know they are all average/poor apart from Lynch and Dusty like you said and we have been shedding them. We aren’t relying on them as much as you. I’m not sure what your point is.

And no I’m not confident nobody from any club entering a rebuild should be, I’m a realist. It’s so easy to stuff up a list that only people with the biggest egos like Geelong supporters will assume it’s all going to be good and cherry ripe like last time. It’s quite frankly delusion of the highest level.

So I say prove it with your ladder position this year and we’ll see who has the egg on their face. Win a final and come back to me.

You're convinced Geelong will be bottom 4 or barely above it.

Get back to me when Geelong finish bottom 4 and have a less impressive batch of kids than Richmond.

We'll probably be waiting 40 years.

 

[Mr Meow]

Old Mate Chrissy Scott doesn't want any rebuilds. Making a big offer for Bailey Smith. He is clearly driven to take the Cats down the same path as Clarko took the Hawks in 2016, trading the farm for Tom Mitchell and Jaeger O'Meara. One-way ticket to no-man's land.

The same was said in 2011, 2015 and even 2020. Same old tune.

 

[STPer18]

Hawthorn did when they picked up O'Meara

Haha yeah imagine recruiting O'Meara. I heard the Hawks managed to offload him to some poor suckers too.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Wait hang on NOW you want to devalue the VFL era after giving me so much crap for doing it.

Im not devaluing it. It was an era of zoning and less teams in it without equalization measures. A lot easier to sustain a successful period during VFL. Not saying the standard waa bad or devaluing it. Just different dynamics back then. Some incredibly strong successful teams, with reasons to it.

 

[Catastrophe!]

Lol if any of you idiots actually paid attention, Scott himself said he had literally no idea where these rumours were coming from and had not spoken to Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

at all.

There's a recent interview and everything.

 

[STPer18]

No need to deflect. The fact is your list demographics are in a rather bad state, and now would be the worst time to attempt to top up. Alas, Chrissy Scott will keep desperately trying. Maybe all of Dangerfield, Hawkins, Tuohy, Duncan and Blicavs can still compete for flags in their late 30s... lol

Yeah that'd be great. Regardless you created a potential scenario where Geelong trade in a player for season 2025 when we haven't even played a minute of 2024 and are arguing purely based on your hypothetical. Most blokes we trade in end up becoming premiership players so if young Bailey takes that Cotton-On cash he'll be a very lucky boy.

 

[Catastrophe!]

You mean back when you still had a strong core of players?
Is signing the equivalent of Dangerfield and Jeremy Cameron on unders with the lure of moggs creek on the agenda again?

Your age 23-29 demographic looks like this:
View attachment 1923962

That is probably the worst in the whole AFL.
You're not even close to contending mate. Topping up now is going down the exact same path as Hawthorn did when they picked up O'Meara and Mitchell.

We won our 4th flag in 15 years, 18 months ago, dipsh!t - when have you won a flag in your entire existence?

Absolute hilarity that you would try and denigrate our side when you haven't achieved sh*t since you entered the AFL.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

We won our 4th flag in 15 years, 18 months ago, dipsh!t - when have you won a flag in your entire existence?

Absolute hilarity that you would try and denigrate our side when you haven't achieved sh*t since you entered the AFL.

It's Falcons umpteenth alt account, don't even bother.

The dude's life really is arguing over Geelong on BigFooty. It's seriously concerning.

They say obsession should be flattering, but the reality is pretty weird.

 

[Mr Meow]

I know they are all average/poor apart from Lynch and Dusty like you said and we have been shedding them. We aren’t relying on them as much as you. I’m not sure what your point is.

And no I’m not confident nobody from any club entering a rebuild should be, I’m a realist. It’s so easy to stuff up a list that only people with the biggest egos like Geelong supporters will assume it’s all going to be good and cherry ripe like last time. It’s quite frankly delusion of the highest level.

So I say prove it with your ladder position this year and we’ll see who has the egg on their face. Win a final and come back to me.

When 9 of them are in your best 22, and only 2 players aged 25 or under are in your best 12-15 players, then yes you are reliant on your veterans.

It's just that they can only carry your to 12th-14th when the sensible aim would be 17th-18th.