Analysis The Rebuilds of Geelong and Richmond and their Future Prospects

[demondavey]

4 years out of the finals (14,15,16,17).

In fairness to them, crucified with injuries in most of those years, and Bucks genius coaching of course.

Picked up De Goey, Adams, Moore, Maynard, Crisp and away they went. Good clubs don't overcomplicate things.

Wonder if someone could have told Melbourne that in about 1965

 

[Mr Meow]

No Dangerfield, C.Guthrie, Rohan, Tuohy, Stanley today - no problem.

Bruhn and O.Henry were two of our best players. Leading the midfield and forward lines respectively.

Holmes needs to polish up his foot skills but otherwise is playing very well. Dempsey is already proving to be a good player.

Mullin and Clark showed a bit more than previously.

SDK a mixed bag again but his second half showed what he can bring.

When Conway builds his tank and gets senior experience he'll be a very good ruckman.

The mid rangers like Stengle, Miers, Zuthrie and Parfitt (a resurgence out of nowhere) are holding their own so that missing a handful of veterans isn't as harmful.

Plenty to like outside of the stalwart veterans.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Bruhn, Holmes, Dempsey, OHenry and Parfitt just casually amassing good game after good game....

 

[juss]

No Dangerfield, C.Guthrie, Rohan, Tuohy, Stanley today - no problem.

To be fair that would that be impressive against a team that isn't going to be bottom 3, maybe not so much against the winless Hawks though.

Where do you rank those players currently in Geelong's best 22?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Sydney and Geelong have points of difference from Melbourne based clubs.
Sydney have their academy and a non fishbowl environment for those looking for that lifestyle.
Geelong also offer an alternative lifestyle but still only an hour from town.
They also have the Falcons as a kind of academy with many of their players returning to Geelong after their initial drafting.
Both clubs have their own stadiums and are very well run, successful seasons are the norm for players at these clubs …

lets be real, this is 90% of why sydney consistently competes in finals. When you get access to that many first round picks for packets of chips it is easy to be a top side.

 

[Mr Meow]

To be fair that would that be impressive against a team that isn't going to be bottom 3, maybe not so much against the winless Hawks though.

Where do you rank those players currently in Geelong's best 22?

Can only beat who's in front of you. This is a side that finished 12th in 2023 and many expected to slide further - even if healthy.

All of the players missing have diminished importance/output compared to a few years ago. But it's still our primary ruckman, best two midfielders, reliable rebounding half back and forward pressure animal (who is also good at bringing ball to ground and snagging goals).

It's easier to break down who is filling the gaps for these absences/retirements rather than how important each missing player is.

O.Henry, Holmes and Dempsey between them are covering what Rohan, Tuohy (prime) and Smith gave us. Not perfectly, but as they develop.

Clark is too raw to replace even old man Selwood's level but get 20, 50 games into him and he'll find his feet. Parfitt/Atkins can bridge the gap.

Bruhn has sort of been forced to take over the reigns from Guthrie and is only about 25 games into his "permanent midfielder" career as opposed to sitting on a flank at GWS. He's improving game by game.

Plenty of good signs from the guys that are getting more responsibility.

 

[DanA]

We seem to be going alright as one of four teams still undefeated. It was encouraging to see Henry get the better of Sicily over the course of the night and Bruhn looked the best midfielder out there. For any sort of success this season we’ll need Danger and Guthrie to wind back time a bit in the finals (even then it’s a tall ask), and we’ll certainly face tougher tests in the next month. But if we can chalk up wins and get games into the likes of Conway, Clark, Dempsey, Mullin, and Holmes while some of the vets are out it’s only a good thing.

 

[Mr Meow]

Um hello we started our rebuild earlier mate we aren’t at the same stage. Like seriously we are 4 years out from our flag you are 2. Do you thinks it’s fair to analyse the clubs that way. F me you just have no integrity or spine for that matter do you.

So revisiting this. Your definition of the rebuild starting for Richmond was after the 2020 GF. So let's look at new players 26 and under.

Since then, in the weekend team Geelong had introduced:

-Bowes (26)
-Stengle (25)
-Z.Guthrie (25)
-Close (25)
-Mullin (24)
-SDK (23)
-Bruhn (22)
-Holmes (21)
-O.Henry (21)
-Dempsey (20)
-Conway (20)
-Clark (19)

12 players with a median age of 22.5.

Richmond introduced:

-Taranto (26)
-Lefau (26)
-Young (25)
-Miller (24)
-Mansell (23)
-Ross (23)
-Dow (22)
-MRJ (22)
-Sonsie (21)
-Banks (21)
-Brown (20)
-Campbell (19)

12 players with a median age of 22.5.

Are Geelong really two years behind in the rebuild?

Can you honestly say Richmond's group of 12 players there have outperformed Geelong's over the first 4 weeks this season?

 

[RichmondEshays]

So revisiting this. Your definition of the rebuild starting for Richmond was after the 2020 GF. So let's look at new players 26 and under.

Since then, in the weekend team Geelong had introduced:

-Bowes (26)
-Stengle (25)
-Z.Guthrie (25)
-Close (25)
-Mullin (24)
-SDK (23)
-Bruhn (22)
-Holmes (21)
-O.Henry (21)
-Dempsey (20)
-Conway (20)
-Clark (19)

12 players with a median age of 22.5.

Richmond introduced:

-Taranto (26)
-Lefau (26)
-Young (25)
-Miller (24)
-Mansell (23)
-Ross (23)
-Dow (22)
-MRJ (22)
-Sonsie (21)
-Banks (21)
-Brown (20)
-Campbell (19)

12 players with a median age of 22.5.

Are Geelong really two years behind in the rebuild?

Can you honestly say Richmond's group of 12 players there have outperformed Geelong's over the first 4 weeks this season?

Firstly, you have left out the likes of Trezise, Bauer, Koschitzke, Jud Clarke and Coulthard who have been taken post 2020. Moreover, Lefau is 25 not 26. Also, Zac Guthrie, Brad Close and SDK were picked up pre 2020 GF.

 

[Mr Meow]

Firstly, you have left out the likes of Trezise, Bauer, Koschitzke, Jud Clarke and Coulthard who have been taken post 2020. Moreover, Lefau is 25 not 26. Also, Zac Guthrie, Brad Close and SDK were picked up pre 2020 GF.

I specifically stated players introduced into the best 22 after the 2020 GF, from the weekend's teams. Unless you are intimating that Zuthrie, Close and SDK have not been a part of Geelong's post 2020 rebuild.

If you really want Trezise, Bauer, Kozzy, Clarke and Coulthard as your best 22 players for 2024 then currently you disagree with your coach.

So once again I will ask, rebuild wise, are Richmond actually two years ahead and does their cohort of introduced players have more runs on the board or potential than the Geelong ones?

Instead of the carry on about semantics, just answer me those two questions.

You DID get me on one point. Lefau turns 26 in a couple of months. I am deeply sorry for this mistake.

 

[Grrr]

He didn't make the top 20 of your B&F last year. The coaches couldn't be any clearer that he didn't do the job he was asked at all.

Our coaches last year voted almost entirely on defensive value. MacIntosh was 10th, and 90% of or board wanted him dropped, which he eventually was. Ross from the wing had 7 games over 20 possessions, and he uses it well in general. MacIntosh had one game over 20 (21) and uses it poorly. Forget last season, it was a dogs breakfast in so many ways.

 

[Mr Meow]

Our coaches last year voted almost entirely on defensive value. MacIntosh was 10th, and 90% of or board wanted him dropped, which he eventually was. Ross from the wing had 7 games over 20 possessions, and he uses it well in general. MacIntosh had one game over 20 (21) and uses it poorly. Forget last season, it was a dogs breakfast in so many ways.

Pickett shows some signs of quality here and there...but I just don't understand playing McIntosh.

You have enough half back flankers. Why not just have Short up on the wing, and Ross as a hybrid between wing and midfield to permanently replace McIntosh and Prestia (then bring in another kid)?

 

[Grrr]

Pickett shows some signs of quality here and there...but I just don't understand playing McIntosh.

You have enough half back flankers. Why not just have Short up on the wing, and Ross as a hybrid between wing and midfield to permanently replace McIntosh and Prestia (then bring in another kid)?

There's 100 pages of this on our board. Structures, structures, structures.....

You can't really blame the new coach, he can't just waltz in and overnight change everything. Fortunately injuries have opened doors for players that we supporters have been impatient to see get a decent crack. Watch with interest as established players come back from injuries, who should go through the VFL, but for some reason we know that won't happen. Probably why we have advocated for our youth being not so bad on this thread before the season started, because most were running around the VFL, who are undefeated I think by the way (including preseason matches).

 

[Footy Smarts]

Our coaches last year voted almost entirely on defensive value. MacIntosh was 10th, and 90% of or board wanted him dropped, which he eventually was. Ross from the wing had 7 games over 20 possessions, and he uses it well in general. MacIntosh had one game over 20 (21) and uses it poorly. Forget last season, it was a dogs breakfast in so many ways.

But that's exactly what I was saying.

You can think what the coaches are asking from him is BS. That's fine. But you can't pretend he's doing what the coaches want while he's not making the top 20 in the B&F in an ordinary side.

 

[Grrr]

But that's exactly what I was saying.

You can think what the coaches are asking from him is BS. That's fine. But you can't pretend he's doing what the coaches want while he's not making the top 20 in the B&F in an ordinary side.

That is true. And that is why we were so crap last year. It is not just me, the results are in the pudding. Average side, coach quit, a very average player coming 10th in the B&F... As good as he was Hardwick and McQualter who was cut from the same cloth, lost the players.

 

[PhatBoy]

Firstly, you have left out the likes of Trezise, Bauer, Koschitzke, Jud Clarke and Coulthard who have been taken post 2020. Moreover, Lefau is 25 not 26. Also, Zac Guthrie, Brad Close and SDK were picked up pre 2020 GF.

Whether they were introduced before then or not doesn’t really matter to where we are in our ‘rebuild’ does it? A rebuild is only relevant in terms of when your next tilt at a flag is. The only relevance it has to the past is how much shit you can hang on supporters of the team in question.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Wow, not sure I should contribute to this thread. Doesn't feel like a mentally healthy conversation. But anyway. Here's the coaches votes from the game against Hawks. Polling votes for us were 3x 21 year olds, a 25 yo, and a geriatric. 25 yo at Hawks the only one to poll votes, and though I've been critical of the worpedo in the past I'd have probably given him ten.

Geelong v Hawthorn
9 James Worpel

5

James Worpel

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.2

5star

HB

11.3

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.5

5star

CL

5.1

5star

No current season stats available

D

15.6

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

9.4

5star

M

1.0

1star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.8

4star

(Haw)
6 Oliver Henry (Geel)
5 Mitch Duncan (Geel)
4 Max Holmes (Geel)
3 Tanner Bruhn (Geel)
3 Tyson Stengle

18

Tyson Stengle

Age

26

Ht

175cm

Wt

71kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.3

2star

K

5.8

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

10.3

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.3

1star

T

2.0

3star

G

0.5

4star

D

8.8

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.6

4star

G

1.6

5star

(Geel)

 

[mattwa]

Really like Bruhn. Much better than I thought he was. Good get by the cats

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Wow, not sure I should contribute to this thread. Doesn't feel like a mentally healthy conversation. But anyway. Here's the coaches votes from the game against Hawks. Polling votes for us were 3x 21 year olds, a 25 yo, and a geriatric. 25 yo at Hawks the only one to poll votes, and though I've been critical of the worpedo in the past I'd have probably given him ten.

Geelong v Hawthorn
9 James Worpel (Haw)
6 Oliver Henry (Geel)
5 Mitch Duncan (Geel)
4 Max Holmes (Geel)
3 Tanner Bruhn (Geel)
3 Tyson Stengle (Geel)

You're expecting cogent analysis where we all get along on BigFooty?!? On the Main board no less?!?

 

[Grrr]

Wow, not sure I should contribute to this thread. Doesn't feel like a mentally healthy conversation. But anyway. Here's the coaches votes from the game against Hawks. Polling votes for us were 3x 21 year olds, a 25 yo, and a geriatric. 25 yo at Hawks the only one to poll votes, and though I've been critical of the worpedo in the past I'd have probably given him ten.

Geelong v Hawthorn
9 James Worpel (Haw)
6 Oliver Henry (Geel)
5 Mitch Duncan (Geel)
4 Max Holmes (Geel)
3 Tanner Bruhn (Geel)
3 Tyson Stengle (Geel)

Impressive, your top end young players are starting to get around that experience/age where they really feel at home.

Not saying Richmond was equivalent vs Swans, but some pretty good games by players almost unheard of or 'taking us nowhere', (including myself at times), Campbell, Mansell, Rioli Jnr, Dow, Ross, Miller and Young. Sonsie not bad for his first game back and playing out of position. Lefau was better.

Seems like both sides have some decent youth coming on. Injuries have hit Richmond pretty hard, so depth will be tested further but good signs in the VFL. 18 year old MacAuliffe, BOG in the middle 2 weeks in a row and a few others turning up.

 

[adammania9]

Don’t even know why Geelong supporters are bothering arguing with these nuffies. Just let the footy (and finals) do the talking

 

[Footy Smarts]

Don’t even know why Geelong supporters are bothering arguing with these nuffies. Just let the footy (and finals) do the talking

But how else are we supposed to hear about Richmond's VFL superstars?

 

[Grrr]

But how else are we supposed to hear about Richmond's VFL superstars?

We'll if a young kid playing his first two games gets 2 BOG's in his first two games (30 possessions in both games), I think it's relevant to kids coming through which is relevant to the argument. He won't be VFL next week.

 

[Footy Smarts]

We'll if a young kid playing his first two games gets 2 BOG's in his first two games (30 possessions in both games), I think it's relevant to kids coming through which is relevant to the argument. He won't be VFL next week.

It's alright I'm mainly just having a laugh. You do seem to like talking up Richmond kids based on VFL form.

But the link between a kid dominating at VFL level as a mid with little positional flexibility and having a good AFL career is thin. I remember how excited Geelong fans got when Dean Gore and Charlie Constable would rack up big numbers and were in the bests every week. Turns out it's an incredibly high bar to make it as an AFL mid. So it's the VFL guys with particular positional skills like Gryan Miers, Zach Guthrie and Jack Henry that become good long-term AFL players despite rarely if ever being BOG at VFL level.

I wish McAuliffe nothing but the best. I hope he can break the mould.

 

[Grrr]

It's alright I'm mainly just having a laugh. You do seem to like talking up Richmond kids based on VFL form.

But the link between a kid dominating at VFL level as a mid with little positional flexibility and having a good AFL career is thin. I remember how excited Geelong fans got when Dean Gore and Charlie Constable would rack up big numbers and were in the bests every week. Turns out it's an incredibly high bar to make it as an AFL mid. So it's the VFL guys with particular positional skills like Gryan Miers, Zach Guthrie and Jack Henry that become good long-term AFL players despite rarely if ever being BOG at VFL level.

I wish McAuliffe nothing but the best. I hope he can break the mould.

McAuliffe is 18 and has played 2 VFL games, so he's kid, but yes you have to translate it into AFL ability.