Analysis The Rebuilds of Geelong and Richmond and their Future Prospects

[Footy Smarts]

Noah Balta is 24 but I would say he is on the same level as Holmes talent wise. so not under 24 but talented it's hard to say we will be finding out a lot this year about Richmond's youth too early to tell.

I wouldn't call Balta youth. I'd personally have him a level below Holmes but he's a good player.

Let's not be picky and give you Holmes = Balta.

Who does Richmond have equivalent to Ollie Henry? Bruhn? De Koning? Dempsey? Clark? Conway?

 

[Grrr]

I wouldn't call Balta youth. I'd personally have him a level below Holmes but he's a good player.

Let's not be picky and give you Holmes = Balta.

Who does Richmond have equivalent to Ollie Henry? Bruhn? De Koning? Dempsey? Clark? Conway?

We will find out, as most have just started. The only one who we have really seen and has come out of the blue is Campbell, who in 4 games looks a class footballer. Missed pretty much the whole year last year with injuries.

But right now you those names are far in front of any young talent we have. But that gap will close a bit by the end of the year as the younger players get more exposure.

 

[Daka]

I wouldn't call Balta youth. I'd personally have him a level below Holmes but he's a good player.

Let's not be picky and give you Holmes = Balta.

Who does Richmond have equivalent to Ollie Henry? Bruhn? De Koning? Dempsey? Clark? Conway?

I mean talls take time & only a couple of years ago guys like Balta, Bolton would have been considered youth okay if their not anymore their still very young. it seems our best players all middle aged.
Where are Geelong's best players are all older no disrespect that's actually amazing that their still playing great footy, minus a couple of players like you mentioned.

 

[PhatBoy]

I mean talls take time & only a couple of years ago guys like Balta, Bolton would have been considered youth okay if their not anymore their still very young. it seems our best players all middle aged.
Where are Geelong's best players are all older no disrespect that's actually amazing that their still playing great footy, minus a couple of players like you mentioned.

Just remember when pointing out that ‘Geelong’s best players are all older.’
One of them was touted as the best player in the competition halfway through last year.
Another is a four-time post-30 AA power forward with 800 goals.
Another is a Brownlow medalist who is still getting best on grounds in wins and was a Gary Ayres medalist just over a season ago.

So yes it’s odd that our best players are older and over 30 - well over in two cases - but it would be a lot more worrying if ‘our kids were not as good as guys over 30 who were just mediocre.’

Like if your best batsmen in a cricket side were 40 year olds averaging 30, that would be a problem.
If you have a team where you’ve got three young guys averaging 40, and 3 older guys averaging 50, it’s not such an issue when people say ‘hey look, your best players are all old.’

 

[Daka]

I wanted McAuliffe at the draft. Reckon he'll go well

He is going to debut this week so I guess we will find out.

Edit: i hope he is not the sub!

 

[Andyy]

Not sure what exactly you mean by youth but I'd love to know which under 24 at Richmond you would compare to Max Holmes.

Jack Ross at 23 isn't doing too bad.

Even Bolton just turned 25 in December.

Balta still 24.

This Seth Campbell kid looks a player for sure.

Also very excited to see McAuliffe this weekend after a dominant start to the pre-season and VFL year, wonder if we've got a diamond in the rough here.

 

[Morro]

Really?

He's averaging 13 touches as a full time inside mid while having no defensive side to his game. This is his 5th season having played 20-odd AFL games and 50-odd VFL games so it's not like he's a kid just starting out.

Do you mean he looks like he belongs in the VFL?

He has played more good games than bad in the AFL since late 23, he will be fine but regardless, thats one player from a handy list

 

[Morro]

Not sure what exactly you mean by youth but I'd love to know which under 24 at Richmond you would compare to Max Holmes.

is under 24 your measurement for youth? why not 20? why not 25?
its easy to pick and choose with this stuff.

LIke many said, your kids might be better, but our middle tier (age wise) is better

 

[BF Tiger]

Were these Geelong fans writing off GAJ after his first 50 games averaging 12 possessions/game?

Point being development isn't linear.

 

[Mr Meow]

I mean talls take time & only a couple of years ago guys like Balta, Bolton would have been considered youth okay if their not anymore their still very young. it seems our best players all middle aged.
Where are Geelong's best players are all older no disrespect that's actually amazing that their still playing great footy, minus a couple of players like you mentioned.

I mean Miers is quite obviously one of our better players now.

Stengle is one of the few that has AA potential when he's in top form.

Our defence suffers badly when J.Henry is absent and Z.Guthrie has greater importance now too.

Holmes, Bruhn and O.Henry have quickly become key players for us as well.

None of these players are 26 or over.

 

[Mr Meow]

Were these Geelong fans writing off GAJ after his first 50 games averaging 12 possessions/game?

Point being development isn't linear.

The thread isn't "put a line through this player or not". It is tracking the rebuilds so what runs the younger players have on the board at AFL or even VFL level.

Of course that could change dramatically. But we've heard a few times Geelong are two years further back in the rebuild and it just doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Were these Geelong fans writing off GAJ after his first 50 games averaging 12 possessions/game?

Point being development isn't linear.

You mean when he finished 4th in the B&F as a teenager and then 8th in the B&F as a 20 year old in a top 4 team? I'll take a wild stab and say no Geelong fan was writing him off.

 

[Mr Meow]

You mean when he finished 4th in the B&F as a teenager and then 8th in the B&F as a 20 year old in a top 4 team? I'll take a wild stab and say no Geelong fan was writing him off.

Almost 50 coaches votes as a forward flanker in 2006 as well. GAJ was showing plenty before his move to midfield, just not delivering on his "best player in the comp" potential hence the kick up the backside. Consistency was an issue but the talent and output (for a young player) were always clearly of a high standard.

He was tracking maybe how Holmes has so far.

 

[BF Tiger]

You mean when he finished 4th in the B&F as a teenager and then 8th in the B&F as a 20 year old in a top 4 team? I'll take a wild stab and say no Geelong fan was writing him off.

In his first 50 games he did that? Obviously it wasn't 2002, so must have been 2003 or 2004 when he averaged under 15 disposals per game in each year.

I'd be interested to see the full voting if you could be so kind.

 

[BF Tiger]

Almost 50 coaches votes as a forward flanker in 2006 as well. GAJ was showing plenty before his move to midfield, just not delivering on his "best player in the comp" potential hence the kick up the backside. Consistency was an issue but the talent and output (for a young player) were always clearly of a high standard.

He was tracking maybe how Holmes has so far.

You mean when he was playing games 80-100 and not his first 50 games like I asked?

 

[Footy Smarts]

In his first 50 games he did that? Obviously it wasn't 2002, so must have been 2003 or 2004 when he averaged under 15 disposals per game in each year.

Yes he finished 4th in our B&F in 2003 and 8th in 2004 when we finished top 4. He was playing mainly as a small forward and was one of the best in the comp. This was from game 13-55.

But go ahead and tell us which Richmond youngster who has multiple top 10 B&F finishes these Geelong fans are writing off.

 

[Mr Meow]

You mean when he was playing games 80-100 and not his first 50 games like I asked?

His first 50 odd games were 2002-2004. Yes he showed plenty in that time, especially games 25-50. He scored multiple goals 19 times in a team that was only decent one of the three seasons. 6 bags of 3 or more in games 30-50 (2004).

15 touches for a small forward in that era was actually fairly prolific and he achieved that 21 times from his first 50 games too.

"Good small forward with potential to be a something special" was exactly what his output said over the first 50 AFL games of GAJ.

 

[Mr Meow]

Yes he finished 4th in our B&F in 2003 and 8th in 2004 when we finished top 4. He was playing mainly as a small forward and was one of the best in the comp. This was from game 13-55.

But go ahead and tell us which Richmond youngster who has multiple top 10 B&F finishes these Geelong fans are writing off.

Disposal counts in 2003 were not in line with what we see these days. Cracking 15 plus disposals almost half the time as a rookie forward pocket was actually a good sign of his prolific potential.

 

[BF Tiger]

Yes he finished 4th in our B&F in 2003 and 8th in 2004 when we finished top 4. He was playing mainly as a small forward and was one of the best in the comp. This was from game 13-55.

But go ahead and tell us which Richmond youngster who has multiple top 10 B&F finishes these Geelong fans are writing off.

Well I am surprised. So maybe no Geelong fans were writing him off, but my point still remains that development isn't linear.

I think most oppositions supporters recollections about GAJ from that period is that he got some honest feedback at the end of one season about him being a lazy trainer, and that is what led to him becoming the best player in the league. So maybe that gave me the wrong impression of how he was looked upon.

 

[Mr Meow]

Well I am surprised. So maybe no Geelong fans were writing him off, but my point still remains that development isn't linear.

I think most oppositions supporters recollections about GAJ from that period is that he got some honest feedback at the end of one season about him being a lazy trainer, and that is what led to him becoming the best player in the league. So maybe that gave me the wrong impression of how he was looked upon.

Early days GAJ was tracking to be a very good small forward who could offer some damaging bursts through the middle. He was obviously utilised better in 2004 as the Cats were a competitive unit and young small forwards benefit from that.

The Leading Teams driven discussions were that he could actually be better than what he was tracking to be, he could become a superstar of the team and the comp. Then he did that and 23 is still actually not that old to be the best player in the comp. A comp that had Franklin, Judd, Riewoldt, Pavlich, Goodes and co doing pretty crazy things.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Jack Ross at 23 isn't doing too bad.

Even Bolton just turned 25 in December.

Balta still 24.

This Seth Campbell kid looks a player for sure.

Also very excited to see McAuliffe this weekend after a dominant start to the pre-season and VFL year, wonder if we've got a diamond in the rough here.

Hard to think of a more anticipated AFL debut for a pick 40 with two VFL games under his belt!
Excluding mature age-types, really can't think of one. Just hope McAuliffe enjoys the day, may still be sub.

And how long till the Cats get into Tom Brown's ear? Any Catters know if they are looking to strike early? His kicking off HB is developing into a weapon, and had a couple of crucial reflex defensive interventions last week, late on. Hope we can lock him away.

Seth/Brown/McAuliffe/Maurice JNR/Miller/Ross all very exciting in different ways in the last week or two --

add that to the dan Rioli/Bolton/Balta/Baker/Graham mid-tier you mention...suddenly hope for Tiger fans!

Just need a KPF or two who can stay on the park, like the Cats have!

 

[Mr Meow]

Youngsters:

-Dempsey is already doing well as a creative linkman. Knows how to find the footy for a young forward flanker only a few games in. Cracks in with the defensive stuff when required and has those few special moments a game.

-Holmes very strong again off the wing/half back. He's giving us plenty of drive and is going hard at it.

-Bruhn was good before fading late. Quality over quantity for his involvements tonight - some very nice breakaway clearances and getting involved in our counterattack on the spread.

-SDK brought the form from his second half last week and was excellent - outside a couple of dicey moments with ball in hand. 9 intercepts, while Naughton had just 4 score involvements and went goalless.

-Clark looks to be tiring. He's doing alright but it's probably time for a rest.

We're continuing to get good contributions from the age group we are accused of lacking quality to take over from the veterans. Miers probably our best, Stengle super damaging, Parfitt a good honest scrapper as a contested midfielder, Z.Guthrie a prolific rebounder and Bowes full of class (9 score involvements, 2 goals and a goal assist from his 23 touches).

Some veterans had off games (Tuohy, Hawkins, Duncan, Blicavs), others were good (Cameron, Stewart, Stanley) and the rest were missing (Dangerfield, C.Guthrie, Rohan). Hard to say we were carried by them.

 

[Mr Meow]

Bolton, Martin, Nankervis, Taranto, Rioli and Short were all good to outstanding. Almost enough to drag Richmond to another victory. The upper end of the list is performing well really.

From the young-ish players, Brown was good in defence and Ross workmanlike between the arcs. Campbell showed plenty again. MRJ did a few nice things.

Unfortunately there was the injury to McAuliffe. Not a lot shown by Dow, Lefau, Kozzy, Miller, Mansell or Young. I'm guessing these would be the 6 or 7 spots (besides Young) where returning senior players would slot straight back in.

 

[Daka]

Bolton, Martin, Nankervis, Taranto, Rioli and Short were all good to outstanding. Almost enough to drag Richmond to another victory. The upper end of the list is performing well really.

From the young-ish players, Brown was good in defence and Ross workmanlike between the arcs. Campbell showed plenty again. MRJ did a few nice things.

Unfortunately there was the injury to McAuliffe. Not a lot shown by Dow, Lefau, Kozzy, Miller, Mansell or Young. I'm guessing these would be the 6 or 7 spots (besides Young) where returning senior players would slot straight back in.

I thought Young & Lefau were good obviously Lefau doesn't get much of the footy but Young kept King to 1 goal, I think that's a win.

Short was one of our worst senior players he hacked the footy all day.

 

[Mr Meow]

I thought Young & Lefau were good obviously Lefau doesn't get much of the footy but Young kept King to 1 goal, I think that's a win.

Short was one of our worst senior players he hacked the footy all day.

Short can be imprecise but he seems to get rated harshly by Tigers fans. I'd say he would be a bigger loss than a number of your current absentees.

Fair enough on Young. He doesn't really rebound or intercept - which is quite a gap in the modern game - the best Tigers defenders did that AND lockdown. His ceiling isn't that high, it looks like an okay lockdown player (remember, he's not Gibcus age, he's inexperienced but not that young).