Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[boydsno1]

Look guys. It's all Gia and Higgins fault.

 

[TedDougChris]

So it's acceptable to be uncompetitive in 3 out of 7 games, a qtr or 2 of another?

I'd honestly prefer that we were fully competitive in every game and won by 8000 points. But that's slightly unrealistic and not reflective of where we are at as a side.

Given the nature of the list and where we are in the rebuild - I'm content that we are improving and our uncompetitive games will decrease with time and we'll see more and more sustained output. But that day is not today. It's just not.

 

[BIG_BONTS]

A concerned membership base is the sign of a healthy club.

 

[Interloper]

You guys really want the culprit for skill errors, look to the clubs sports psychologist. In charge of the panic/stress levels the players are feeling.

Further to this, having skill is one thing, being able to execute under AFL pressure is another. Eagleton was a classic. Under the intensity of finals football he couldn't execute under pressure and yet most acknowledge that he was a great kick technically. Even after 150+ games he would fall apart mentally when it counted. The younger ones have a bit latitude in allowing time to adjust and become accustomed to those pressures. Less so the older ones. Succumbing to finals pressure has been a hallmark of even our most successful recent sides.
The trick is to identify players at draft with skill and good coping skills.

 

[Trent85]

I think some have totally lost their shit on here... You know who you are...
Kind of like Nicolas Cage....

 

[Mutt]

No, You have just stumbled across people who are sick of our club been stuck on a treadmill since 54. And the other major difference is Tiger fans still buy memberships and turn up to games no matter the state of their club.

And the inane, unrelenting, boganish negativity by some on here really helps us all feel so good about being a Bulldogs supporter.

 

[the dog's kennel]

You know what I find hilarious?

The disjunction between the view that people have on this board and the view that people have in the media.

I know Lloyd has taken a few whacks at us. But Lloydy aside, there appears to be a fair amount of support in the media for where we are at. Tonight there was plenty of it - Mike and Gerard On the Couch both seemed to feel we were tracking well. "Playing well without finding a way to win" was how Gerard put it. And Mike also said we were playing well. And hilariously on 360 Robbo described us as being "in good form"! (And I'm discounting the positive comments on AFL Insider, cause David King was just sucking up after they showed the Dogs' training footage.)

Now even I find Robbo's comment laughable. But surely it's a sign that some people have a fairly warped perspective of the Dogs' position - and I'm not sure those with the warped view are the media (who usually show a real bias towards purely judging from W-L results).

 

[dcs84]

I guess the great question borne of this debate is do we think, in a parallel alternate reality, somebody is leading the Doggies to performances more promising than those delivered up by one Brendan McCartney? The answer has to be 'maybe', it can't be yes, it can't be no, it has to be maybe. Therefore with a season so grim and fruitless there are those amongst us who believe, if things were different, we might be performing better under different tutelage (or, for the sake of diplomacy, modified tutelage).

 

[immortalmike]

Look guys. It's all Gia and Higgins fault.

Personally I blame Eagleton.

 

[Fossie 32]

I think some have totally lost their shit on here... You know who you are...
Kind of like Nicolas Cage....

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...4294%2Fohjust-becausecool-nic-gifs%2F;320;173

 

[Werewolf]

I have said again and again that Macca is probably a brilliant assistant coach, one who can work with certain players, but in my opinion and I think a few here share that, is that perhaps he is not a Senior coach, the job appears beyond him at this stage, who right here can say with confidence that we will beat the Gold Coast this weekend?

You may be right about the first part. A lot of players have said Macca greatly helped their development. If his contract is not renewed, then (if nothing else) I hope he's (1) given Dalrymple a good understanding of what sort of players to recruit and (2) enhanced the individual capabilities of our young contingent, even if he can't get them to perform as a team.

And yes, I reckon we will beat Gold Coast this weekend. We're bloody well due for a win!

 

[Bulldog1954]

Personally I blame Eagleton.

I hope with our current sides incredible lack of speed and spread the Eagle bashers of the past can now see his value

 

[BIG_BONTS]

Further to this, having skill is one thing, being able to execute under AFL pressure is another. Eagleton was a classic. Under the intensity of finals football he couldn't execute under pressure and yet most acknowledge that he was a great kick technically. Even after 150+ games he would fall apart mentally when it counted. The younger ones have a bit latitude in allowing time to adjust and become accustomed to those pressures. Less so the older ones. Succumbing to finals pressure has been a hallmark of even our most successful recent sides.
The trick is to identify players at draft with skill and good coping skills.

I think that's nothing a good psych can't at least improve. Good old fashion CBT, resilience/coping skills training, mindfulness and some meditation. At MIT they make their college kids meditate to develop a cool head under pressure.

 

[immortalmike]

I hope with our current sides incredible lack of speed and spread the Eagle bashers of the past can now see his value

In all seriousness, Eagle's gut running would be very welcome in the current side.

 

[Bulldog1954]

In all seriousness, Eagle's gut running would be very welcome in the current side.

Agree fully, the type of player we need desperately at the moment. Guys like Tutty could learn a lot from Eagles work ethic

 

[DogDays]

Might get my team back playing half decent football.

And you'd still find a negative.

 

[DogDays]

Bugger me I've stumbled into the Richmond board......

And here i was thinking this was the bulldogs fb page.

 

[_Mike_]

I know Lloyd has taken a few whacks at us. But Lloydy aside, there appears to be a fair amount of support in the media for where we are at. Tonight there was plenty of it

I grew up playing kick to kick footy with Lloydy's older brother Simon.. God damn it, I knew I should have taken Matthew out when I had the chance..

 

[JJHunter]

You know what I find hilarious?

The disjunction between the view that people have on this board and the view that people have in the media.
I know Lloyd has taken a few whacks at us. But Lloydy aside, there appears to be a fair amount of support in the media for where we are at. Tonight there was plenty of it - Mike and Gerard On the Couch both seemed to feel we were tracking well. "Playing well without finding a way to win" was how Gerard put it. And Mike also said we were playing well. And hilariously on 360 Robbo described us as being "in good form"! (And I'm discounting the positive comments on AFL Insider, cause David King was just sucking up after they showed the Dogs' training footage.)

I grew up playing kick to kick footy with Lloydy's older brother Simon.. God damn it, I knew I should have taken Matthew out when I had the chance..

Why are we not allowed to be criticised ? Why do we bag anyone in the media who does. Lloyd has only ever provided fact and figures as to where our game is at at the moment. He produced facts that showed the difference between our contested and uncontested and said we need to develop an outside game - he also provided a list of guys with poor footy skills or one paced through our midfield and showed how poor our kicking efficiency % are - hardly anything ground breaking. Yet our fans get their knicker in a twist about it.

Its not his job to assess the future but to tell the footy public why we are not winning more games right now. And his observations on Footy Classified a couple of weeks ago were accurate and totally backed up by what McCartney has said in his interviews. McCartney himself on SEN mentioned last week that there was growing talk of our inefficiencies and he said fair enough to. I believe he was alluding to Lloyd on footy classified.

For every good comment I can find a bad. What about michael gleesons article in todays age ?
I think it explains alot and backs up some ealier comments in this thread asking why the demons got more scrutiny than the dogs.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ut-dogs-are-none-too-rosy-20130514-2jklt.html

 

[_Mike_]

Why are we not allowed to be criticised ?
For every good comment I can find a bad. What about michael gleesons article in todays age ?
I think it explains alot and backs up some ealier comments in this thread asking why the demons got more scrutiny than the dogs.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ut-dogs-are-none-too-rosy-20130514-2jklt.html

Some people simply lack the maturity to take citicism in a constructive way. When you look at those stats in Gleeson's article they are a telling fact.

IMO, the media is a lot harsher on Melbourne because they have been in the same rut for many years now, without showing any indication of improvement. We arent much better and given our more recent finals appearences the media seems more forgiving of the Dogs at the present. Should we end up down the Melbourne path and in the same position in 2 years time dont worry, the wolves will be out hunting us in packs..

Melbourne and the Doggies are at different points in their rebuilding

 

[ThirdLegUp]

Nothing wrong with the article, says it like it is, but leave 1 major factor out, like they all do. Everyone knows the dogs are at the start of a rebuild, and yet shows more heart then melbourne does...who after 6 years should be at the end of a rebuild and playing serious football. This is why the media personalities say things like, "good form" "showing something" "show promise" even when we get done by 54pts like on the weekend. because they understand to look at the details of the picture rather then the picture as a glaringly obvious whole (that we lost again) the W/L ledger is not an accurate guide. Unless you compare it honestly with the reality that our 1st year and a bit look like Melbournes 4th year and a bit....that's bad, very bad for them. expected from us, and thus the media ignores us...until next year.

 

[Tommycash]

For every good comment I can find a bad. What about michael gleesons article in todays age ?
I think it explains alot and backs up some ealier comments in this thread asking why the demons got more scrutiny than the dogs.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ut-dogs-are-none-too-rosy-20130514-2jklt.html

Well, that article. It initially sets up the idea that the two sides are on par, then acknowledges that the dogs look a lot more competitive side then Melbourne.


Then, incredibly, it goes on to say that Melbourne are suffering an injury plagued season when we "have had the bulk of their best side out there each week" before listing the players we've had missing and saying that doesn't matter because " Adam Cooney, Daniel Cross, Dale Morris and Luke Dahlhaus have played every game."that's a player who has struggled for 3-4 years with a knee complaint, one who hasn't played since 2011 and one who's 21.

Either he has a very skewed view of who the best players in our side are, or he's more optimistic about our players ability to recover from injuries and our young players abilities to step up then even the most die hard of fans. Surely we know that although Cooney and Morris are indeed getting back to their best, it would be a brave man who suggested they are, or should already be there.

He then writes "Melbourne's problem over the Bulldogs is that its issues are not restricted to the misery on the field. "For mine, I think Melbourne's bigger problem is to look at them shows little hope. It's hard to see where the future is taking them. We have a large group of very promising young players coming through the ranks, yet there's seem to struggle with the basics of footy and indeed the basics of effort.

He then lists the two clubs results since round 13 last year, failing to note that in that time we've had far tougher draw in that time, and indeed a far worse injury problem. For a chap who purports a want to illuminate the facts, he's not doing a very good job of it. This is not to say we've not been bad. Everyone acknowledges that as fact. But we should in no way be lumped with Melbourne.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

For every good comment I can find a bad. What about michael gleesons article in todays age ?
I think it explains alot and backs up some ealier comments in this thread asking why the demons got more scrutiny than the dogs.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ut-dogs-are-none-too-rosy-20130514-2jklt.html

Is he a Melbourne supporter?

He has gone to some length to make them look better.
He has chosen the last 18 games, which is immediately after our win over Port Adelaide and gets to include their win in round 13.

They have 4 games in that run with 3 of them against GWS and 1 against Gold Coast.

We have not even played those sides in that time.

He also suggests that we have had "the bulk of our best side", but in the loss to West Coast we were missing Griffen, Gia, Higgins, Williams, Murphy, Wood from our best side. That is comparable at least to Melbourne's outs against Gold Coast.
Against Adelaide, we were competitive to half time, and played effectively a man short when Griffen went down just after Gia was subbed off. We were also missing Murphy in that game as well.

While I don't believe we are immune from criticism, it is simply not justified to put us in the same basket as Melbourne.

 

[JJHunter]

Agree with all you guys and your points about that article - just showing and retorting an earlier post by someone that says Lloyd is the only one who has questioned us - there are plenty out there dont worry - they are just too busy reporting on the basket case issues happening at Melbourne.

I heard Terry Wallace and the ox I think it was the other night that mentioned all our short comings but then acknowledged we don't cop it in the media at the moment simply because of the competiveness we show and that they have a view to the future of what we will look like.

But my advice to everyone on this board - Is dont ignore the criticism from these people - take it on board like Macca did and does and use it to go forward - I cannot stand those who ignore everything that states facts on the negative side but always push and promote only the positives.

If you take a common sense approach at least those who comment on how bad we are at the moment have actual facts and evidence to work with - and I would say the majority of us here would agree with where we are at right at this moment.

Those pushing the absolute positives don't have facts to work with - the future is all speculative. We can say we are on the right track but who knows what is to happens - Injuries, lack of development, trades, better development of some players. No one knows, although many here like to think they do, what the future holds.

Lets not lambaste commentators who point out the things that are obviously wrong with us at the moment. They are in the most case correct and I haven't heard anyone judge us harshly or unfairly yet yet in the media.
This Michael Gleeson article comes to the closest given the selective way he has used game results and the omissions of who we have played in that time.

 

[Mofra]

I heard Terry Wallace and the ox I think it was the other night that mentioned all our short comings but then acknowledged we don't cop it in the media at the moment simply because of the competiveness we show and that they have a view to the future of what we will look like.

And that's part of the reason we attract less scrutiny than Melbourne.
B-Mac has a vision, a plan, and come hell or highwater he will implement it.
"Crack in" & "Build from the inside out" are terms alot of fans are sick of, but you know what? If he kept giving us different messages every month, that would be a far greater concern.
Phase 2 (run & spread, which he's already started to talk about/work on) will be interesting to see but at the very least it's part of an evolving plan.

We don't want to wander in the wilderness for a decade without real direction - and that's what changing the coach every 2 years does. Ask Richmond how that worked out for them - and how by giving Hardwick carte blanche to build the team from the ground up they have renewed hope and actually look a reasonable chance at playing finals for the first time since Noah's wife noticed the rain was getting "a little heavier".