Toast Thoughts On The West Coast Game

[King Elvis]

Shaw is already ahead of Doughty.

Seems like when Doughty is beaten, it doesn't matter or there is an excuse; Hams beat him, Milne beat him; but no matter, because we still won. What happens when his player beats him and we lose because of it?

If we're picking Doughty because he can spoil, we're kidding ourselves; nobody will question his intensity at the contest, but we've already got other options who can not only spoil, they can actually use the ball as well. He's not playing loose, that's Reilly's role. I don't believe we can have both of them in the same side, not when we have other options.

People saying Smith had a shocker yesterday; based on what?

He had a couple of bad kicks; who didn't? There was a passage of play where Doughty made 3 poor decisions in a row as well, that I believe ended with an OOF. Every player makes mistakes; it's the how/where and frequency that's the concern. Smith is a reliable user of the footy, good decision maker and fantastic kick - Doughty isn't.

He's a hell of a lot better than Doughty with the ball in hand, he's a better lock down player - not quite as good a spoiler though, but, seriously, is that the key quality that we're picking on?

Shaw and Smith have both overtaken Doughty; and if they haven't, at least they're trending upwards, Doughty is on the decline; in another 6 games time, Shaw/Smith will both improve further - can't say the same for Doughty.

 

[King Elvis]

Not 100% sold on Otten again either; he was good yesterday, but still looked lethargic/nonchalant at times.

 

[Smoooothy]

Not 100% sold on Otten again either; he was good yesterday, but still looked lethargic/nonchalant at times.

i am seriously concerned for andy. every time he gets the ball I am worried it will be either turned over, or his movement will be too slow

 

[spexau]

i am seriously concerned for andy. every time he gets the ball I am worried it will be either turned over, or his movement will be too slow

100% DE on the weekend. He looked the best has has in 2 years.

 

[Smoooothy]

100% DE on the weekend. He looked the best has has in 2 years.

granted yes, this was the best game he's played since he did his knee IMO, but it's still a fear

 

[spexau]

granted yes, this was the best game he's played since he did his knee IMO, but it's still a fear

Of course but everyone knows how good his best is so it's a good opportunity to see how well he's recovered. He did enough on the weekend to retain his spot and show us that 2009 form.

 

[Cap]

Doughty won't be playing next year.

but I'd still back his experience in for the remainder of this year.

 

[Elite Crow]

Interesting to see how Hams scored his last two goals.

1st one started with I think it was Schofield breaking from about 55 out from goal. Symes had Schofield covered and was about to tackle him, Doughty ran over left Hams to receive the handball and goal. Firstly, why did Doughty go to the contest when Symes was there and why did he think leaving Hams on his own was a good thing?

The second goal was very poor and again highlighted poor decision making. The ball is kicked to Nic Nat who is covered by Rutten. Doughty approaches the contest not worrying that he's leaving Hams 5 meters behind him alone. Nic Nat handballs the ball forward, Doughty thumps the ball to the inside directly to Cox. Whereas if he went boundary line he had about 3 free Crows players. Cox kicks to a loose Hams who goals.

Now if the call to have Doughty in the team is his experience, surely his experience would have helped him make better choices and not cost two goals? These errors are becoming more frequent. Sorry but the call he is performing far far better than our younger options and we need his experience is bullshit.

 

[beartoo]

I left the ground thinking Smith had played well. After some of the comments on this thread I watched the replay and took particular notice of what this bloke did during the game. In the 1st half he had one out of bounds on the full in a situation where he had more time than he thought to weigh up his options, one helicopter special on the wing that went up a long way and into the centre and got caught holding the ball once in one of those puzzling decisions when the other 21 players fell on top of him.
He didn't set the world on fire yesterday, but he played okay for mine.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Doughty also had 1 kicked on him by Kerr. They lined up against each other on the edge of the square for a centre bounce.

The Eagles broke forward, big pack, ball contested, Kerr led Doughty to contest, Kerr gets ball, Kerr goal. Was down the northern end.

Look, we cannot expect perfection in our defenders. They are under immense pressure. They are playing AFL forwards. So yes there will be the occasional error defensively and there will be the odd clanger/turnover.

That's fine, but to suggest Doughty is playing well and doing enough to put his spot beyond doubt is crap. The only reason he won't be dropped is his name is Michael Doughty, it is an emotional bridge too far for the selectors and the club. Who knows, maybe the players as well, he is revered apparently. But on performance, if it were 26yo Johnny Blogs putting in barely par performances as a dour defensive small specialist then I'm pretty sure we would move on.

 

[spexau]

To be fair to Dogga the goal that Kerr kicked was pretty bloody brilliant. He had next to no time, managed to scoop the ball up with his left, guide it down to his right foot and kick it on the outside of his boot all on the run.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

To be fair to Dogga the goal that Kerr kicked was pretty bloody brilliant. He had next to no time, managed to scoop the ball up with his left, guide it down to his right foot and kick it on the outside of his boot all on the run.

Totally, was freakish...but he still had to get to the contest first to do the subsequent flashy stuff

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Oh by the way, I was being sarcastic.

With the three spoils praise?

Sorry, didn't pick up on it

In hindsight I guess it is a pretty meagre return to be trumpeting about.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Shaw is already ahead of Doughty.

Shaw and Smith have both overtaken Doughty; and if they haven't, at least they're trending upwards, Doughty is on the decline; in another 6 games time, Shaw/Smith will both improve further - can't say the same for Doughty.

Yes i agree Shaw has passed Doughty in terms of quality of footy .....I'd say Smith & Doughty on a par ....but it's pointing out the obvious that Smith and Shaw are trending upwards and Doughty trending down

But Doughty (who had a horrid game Sat) is in the side to add experience .......now everyone can debate the merit of this but club if they didn't want him on that basis would have asked him to retire end of last season.

How many times do people need to be told that Doughty will not be dropped !!! .......

Next year landscape changes completely and Doughty WOULD BE a liability

 

[Elite Crow]

You just said it yourself, he was horrid on the weekend and it wasnt the first time. He is a liability now.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You just said it yourself, he was horrid on the weekend and it wasnt the first time. He is a liability now.

This is not my "want" with Doughty .......he has always been a "15 -25" level player in the sqaud

So lets not pretend he was a great player ......but you have to read between the lines of the match committee .......and i think their thoughts are pretty clear

Shaw, Jeansch, Brown, Smith, Otten, Talia .........needed some experience in Rutten, Johncock, & Doughty
That experience becomes more critical in finals

not my thoughts, just how i see club thinking ......Shaw, Smith, Talia are going to be exceptional players !!

 

[Tex200]

I would not usually doubt doggas selection but its become such a competitve squeeze for spots. Surely anyone is a couple of poor game s from being under the microscope

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I would not usually doubt doggas selection but its become such a competitve squeeze for spots. Surely anyone is a couple of poor game s from being under the microscope

based on Saturdays game ......most players would be dropped on that form

However the club is 2nd and IMO will carry Doughty for his experience going into the finals UNLESS his form of Saturday continues

He really hasn't been all that bad ....its just the Doughty hunters who find fault with every disposal / decision that dissect his game more than younger players who make more mistakes

The young players mistakes are overlooked as they have the title of "developing stars" ...... the older players don't get the same leeway

 

[Elite Crow]

Ok, watch the replay and tell me which kids mistakes cost goals and which experienced defenders mistakes cost goals.

And when a player is in the side for his experience ahead of kids who offer more then it's only natural their performances should be more closely scrutinized because he's in the side to reduce mistakes not contribute to them.

 

[Paladin]

I watched the replay - Smith and Otten were brilliant. Smith's first quarter other than one shanked kick was out of the box. He used his pace to mop up everything. Hard as nails as well. Otten 19 touches at 100% was back to his very best. With Mackay and Radar as well as our twin towers im feeling better and better about our defence. Would like to see Stiffy given a full game down back to see if he is up to it.

 

[Elite Crow]

We don't we switch Stiffy and Dogga? Imagine Dogga spoiling to centre the ball in our forward line instead? He would really straighten us up.

 

[rocket18]

Doughty thumps the ball to the inside directly to Cox. Whereas if he went boundary line he had about 3 free Crows players.

This is one glaring weakness Dogga has, he consistantly spoils to the wrong spot, he can't seem to direct the spoils that well.

I think he and Shaw are fairly lineball, I would bring in Shaw as his upside is greater (obviously as Dogga is at the end of his career).

Also with Stiffy back and improving his match fitness this gives us that experience in defense if we need it.

A fit and in form Stiffy is a better option than a fit and in form Dogga.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Ok, watch the replay and tell me which kids mistakes cost goals and which experienced defenders mistakes cost goals.

And when a player is in the side for his experience ahead of kids who offer more then it's only natural their performances should be more closely scrutinized because he's in the side to reduce mistakes not contribute to them.

That's fair enough .......just that the Doughty call is not a week to week call

And yes if you want to call it a "Golden Ticket" then i think in Doughty's case it's probably an apt description .....but no amount of BF posters calls are going to change the match committee thinking this year

UNLESS he really stinks it up consistently ......which he really hasn't to the degree BF people believe

 

[Elite Crow]

Obviously we aren't posting for the sake of the selectors, it's to share our opinion. As others do with theirs, but mine is right

 

[King Elvis]

I would not usually doubt doggas selection but its become such a competitve squeeze for spots. Surely anyone is a couple of poor game s from being under the microscope

That's the other factor.

It's great to be able to trumpet about how many of our players are carving up in the SANFL - but SANFL form is irrelevant if they aren't rewarded for it when they're demanding a spot; and somebody incumbent is struggling.