Strategy Trade and List Management thread 3 (...The pining for the departed. Edition)

[jdz101]

If we didnt sign Campbell up again I'd be feeling far more dicey about the ruck situation. We did though, so I can deal with going into next year carrying the current crew and rookie drafting another project.

Its salivating to think what a veteran upgrade at ruck would do to supercharge our midfield considering how good they are already, but they're still awesome with roughhead and you get the feeling Beveridge prioritises round the ground stuff over hitouts anyway.

If we could swing a Mcevoy style trade next year I would not be against it thats for sure.

 

[jdz101]

He's kicked 20 goals in 19 games since the 2015 bye at AFL level.
That includes the 4 goals he kicked against GWS wearing an illegal glove.

See this is an interesting one.

Dogs get 4 more inside 50s a game than collingwood and a hell of a lot more possession. He'll have more bites of the cherry with us.

The other factor with cloke that you cant really quantify is the confidence thing. If he clunks one and kicks an early goal he seems to play a fairly good game. He's always been a guy that can look dominant one day when he's confident and look ghastly the next weekend when he's not. I think Bevo will do him a world of good and I think the extra footy coming in will always help too. I can see him kicking 25+ regular season next year.

 

[TedDougChris]

Cloke just needs to provide an option that reduces the double or triple teaming on Boyd/Stringer. Having Crameri back will also help this...

 

[Deadly Darcy]

Hope English falls through to 18 and I hope we take him. He's no Grundy but as a depth-developing ruck I'd be thrilled. If freo don't take him at 7 I rekon there's a chance as everyone else (bar GWS) needs mids way more than we do and GWS will be taking academy kids

 

[BEaston]

Disagree that TC couldn't be a main ruck. Think he's more than capable to play that role, just has never really had a proper run at it.

Happy to draft a project ruckman but don't think we need another mature backup with TC on the list. Push comes to shove, Boyd can also play as main ruck. Would be pretty unlucky to have all 3 go down at the same time.

As we now know Cordy is also capable depth as a KPF. Think we should look at drafting another KPF as well though.

 

[Dogsman16]

I'd take Darcy Cameron with pick 50 if he was available. Sure mobility is not his strength but he still averaged 20 plus hitouts a game and almost 2 goals a game. So he does fill the requirement of being able to play multiple positions.

Best available with our first 2 picks but I certainly think we can afford to take a 21 year old developing ruck with pick 50.

 

[Dav1d]

I want us to pick up Sam Draper as a rookie.

If he has a brother called Donald then sign him, sign him now.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

If we didnt sign Campbell up again I'd be feeling far more dicey about the ruck situation. We did though, so I can deal with going into next year carrying the current crew and rookie drafting another project.

Its salivating to think what a veteran upgrade at ruck would do to supercharge our midfield considering how good they are already, but they're still awesome with roughhead and you get the feeling Beveridge prioritises round the ground stuff over hitouts anyway.

If we could swing a Mcevoy style trade next year I would not be against it thats for sure.

I'm not confident with a Campbell/Boyd duo in the ruck should Roughy go down over an extended period of time. It makes our rucks too immobile and I think can get exposed.

Can you imagine Campbell or Roughy with the mobility to push back consistently in defence and fill space, intercept mark or spoil to the level that Roughy does?

Boyd and Campbell can do this in spurts, when they ruck 20-40% of the game time when Roughy was there rucking 60-80% of game time, but one of them has to ruck at least 50% of the match and I think once you get above 50% you'll see a decline in their mobility, that we don't see with players with better endurance in Roughy.

Boyd rucked his guts out against GWS. But there were significant times where he failed to push back in defence given he had no rest (completely understandable) which is why Lobb played a very good game in that match.

It was okay for a one-off game and he sufficiently recovered for the following week. But can you expect him to do 90% of that endurance requirement, week-in, week-out? It would destroy him.

And that's just Boyd. Campbell has worse endurance. We're in a poor situation - have Campbell play Roughy's role which he doesn't have the capability of doing so, or actually take Boyd away from the forward line for greater periods of the game, which given he's a better forward than Campbell, clearly isn't ideal.

I honestly think, that should Roughy get injured, Campbell isn't the player to replace him. He's the player to replace Boyd if he's not playing.

I will reiterate - Campbell played very well in the VFL finals only rucking 30-40% of the match, equivalent to what Boyd was rucking in the AFL. He actually didn't play that well at VFL level when he was asked to do 60+% of the rucking.

 

[54dreamsalive]

Hamilton contract would be around 325k while Stevens would be around 450k
(300k is the minimum)

Guys both where already commited to other clubs mid seasons

 

[54dreamsalive]

Do you think us picking up Cloke will be a master move?

Who at GWS is going to play on Boyd-Cloke-Stringer-Crameri-Dickson there weakness is going to be our strength next year with the retirement off there Full back they are very light on....

 

[Testekill]

Do you think us picking up Cloke will be a master move?

Who at GWS is going to play on Boyd-Cloke-Stringer-Crameri-Dickson there weakness is going to be our strength next year with the retirement off there Full back they are very light on....

Davis would take Boyd, Haynes on Cloke, Tomlinson on Crameri, Shaw on Stringer, Williams on Dickson and Wilson on whoever is resting forward.

Tomlinson on Crameri would suit us just fine because Tomlinson doesn't like physical forwards.

 

[dogzrule]

Disagree that TC couldn't be a main ruck. Think he's more than capable to play that role, just has never really had a proper run at it.

Happy to draft a project ruckman but don't think we need another mature backup with TC on the list. Push comes to shove, Boyd can also play as main ruck. Would be pretty unlucky to have all 3 go down at the same time.

As we now know Cordy is also capable depth as a KPF. Think we should look at drafting another KPF as well though.

TC just like Roughy prior to last year has been injury prone, look how Roughy improved when he got an injury free run. I remember a lot of negative comments on Roughead on BF this time last year

TC has a lot of upside and potential to be #1 ruck and is a year younger than Roughead he will be fine




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[54dreamsalive]

Davis would take Boyd, Haynes on Cloke, Tomlinson on Crameri, Shaw on Stringer, Williams on Dickson and Wilson on whoever is resting forward.

Tomlinson on Crameri would suit us just fine because Tomlinson doesn't like physical forwards.

Haynes is the weakness on cloke one out 7 this year

 

[jdz101]

I'm not confident with a Campbell/Boyd duo in the ruck should Roughy go down over an extended period of time. It makes our rucks too immobile and I think can get exposed.

Can you imagine Campbell or Roughy with the mobility to push back consistently in defence and fill space, intercept mark or spoil to the level that Roughy does?

Boyd and Campbell can do this in spurts, when they ruck 20-40% of the game time when Roughy was there rucking 60-80% of game time, but one of them has to ruck at least 50% of the match and I think once you get above 50% you'll see a decline in their mobility, that we don't see with players with better endurance in Roughy.

Boyd rucked his guts out against GWS. But there were significant times where he failed to push back in defence given he had no rest (completely understandable) which is why Lobb played a very good game in that match.

It was okay for a one-off game and he sufficiently recovered for the following week. But can you expect him to do 90% of that endurance requirement, week-in, week-out? It would destroy him.

And that's just Boyd. Campbell has worse endurance. We're in a poor situation - have Campbell play Roughy's role which he doesn't have the capability of doing so, or actually take Boyd away from the forward line for greater periods of the game, which given he's a better forward than Campbell, clearly isn't ideal.

I honestly think, that should Roughy get injured, Campbell isn't the player to replace him. He's the player to replace Boyd if he's not playing.

I will reiterate - Campbell played very well in the VFL finals only rucking 30-40% of the match, equivalent to what Boyd was rucking in the AFL. He actually didn't play that well at VFL level when he was asked to do 60+% of the rucking.

I hear you...but they're obviously expecting improvements in both Boyd and Campbell's motor. Both still young guys and both have the ability to be difference makers. (very clearly in boyd's case)

Big offseason for both to improve their endurance. Boyd himself made a note of focusing on trimming down and getting more running in instead of a more weights focused routine and getting bigger like he was in GWS. Might be on the cards for adams aswell. Hamling was pretty good at following his man all the way to the wing or the flanks step for step and not even allowing him that mark in the finals. If adams resumes that role it'd be great if he could provide the same.

 

[stefoid]

See this is an interesting one.

Dogs get 4 more inside 50s a game than collingwood and a hell of a lot more possession. He'll have more bites of the cherry with us.

The other factor with cloke that you cant really quantify is the confidence thing. If he clunks one and kicks an early goal he seems to play a fairly good game. He's always been a guy that can look dominant one day when he's confident and look ghastly the next weekend when he's not. I think Bevo will do him a world of good and I think the extra footy coming in will always help too. I can see him kicking 25+ regular season next year.

A lot of our I50s are kicking to a 12 dogs vs 16 opposition scrum though.

I guess as such, we just want someone to stand under the ball and make it a ground contest, and cloke should be as good as anyone on our ist for that at least.

 

[TedDougChris]

A lot of our I50s are kicking to a 12 dogs vs 16 opposition scrum though.

I guess as such, we just want someone to stand under the ball and make it a ground contest, and cloke should be as good as anyone on our ist for that at least.

Part of that is we often play an extra at or around the stoppage, which leaves extra opposition players elsewhere. The Lol Norf game at the early part of the year is a classic case. They had extras near the stoppage and prevented our escape with the ball.

Additionally, due to injury and suspension we didnt have our best F50 setup available, nor did we have many options available to us. We also had a fee of our better ball users either missing or playing poorly. Will be really keen to see our I50 delivery improve this yr

 

[Mofra]

Haynes is the weakness on cloke one out 7 this year

Or his rebound is a strength we can't match and he chops us up.

The whole "stretching the defence" is a myth at AFL level. We played with two undersized KPDs at times in 2016 (Adams and Morris) and won with the systems of mid-sized defenders giving a chop out (particularly Wood and Biggs).

The one player who played on an opposition ruckman from every team in the AFL during the 2008 season wasn't Hudson or Minson, it was Lindsay Gilbee and he killed teams on the rebound. Eade was ahead of the pack here.
You'd sacrifice one contested mark in the D50 per game for the amount of rebound a Gilbee (or JJ or Wood or Bailey Williams) would provide.

 

[Super Hans]

Jarrad Gartlett released from the Suns. Another Scotty Clayton special.

 

[Mofra]

Jarrad Gartlett released from the Suns. Another Scotty Clayton special.

He can't help himself Clayton. Even took Stinga back in lieu of swimming to Portsea Pub and back.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Jarrad Gartlett released from the Suns. Another Scotty Clayton special.

Sounds like a bit of a weird situation; the type that's tough for a recruiter to foresee:

Garlett, who signed a two-year extension in August, has returned home to Western Australia to deal with a private family matter.

The Suns have said he will not be able to play AFL for two years.

 

[VitalDread]

AFL doens't want W.A Teams to get him for free it appears

 

[compact72]

Hasn't been good trade for wa. Always wanting to go home

 

[lachy]

Hasn't been good trade for wa. Always wanting to go home

Could impact young WA players in the future, limiting their opportunity

 

[murphy2bedabest]

people seem to forget that we have Libba, he can ruck

 

[murphy2bedabest]

Just on our ruck situation, Tom Boyd will IMO become our number 1 ruckman in time, as his tank builds he will be up around the ball more controling the tempo of the game. Roughead started to gain in confidence in the backend of season. all we need from them is to make a contest, take a few contested marks around the ground and if the kick 2-4 goals between them, well thats a bonus.

I'm all on picking up English or Marshall at 18 if either slips, because i think we can allow them to develop and take their time better than we have ever in the past. not only do we have cloke and Crameri in the side now, but we have our VFL side as well, helping develop our bigger guys.