List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency Part 10

[_RT_]

Trade & Free Agency Dates

Free Agency Period - Friday October 4th 9am to Friday October 11th 5pm

Trade Period - Monday 7th October 9am to Wednesday October 16th 7.30pm

Richmond have been linked to the following players:
Elijah Tsatas
Jai Culley
Jacob Konstanty

 

[GoTigers2015]

Nick Stevens was a pick 1, Jade Rawlings was a 3 i think. not sure if there has been another once since then

Jack Martin to Carlton with pick 1 in the 2020 PSD and Jackson Hately to the Crows, pick 1 in 2021 PSD

 

[RJK Tiger]

Jack Martin to Carlton with pick 1 in the 2020 PSD and Jackson Hately to the Crows, pick 1 in 2021 PSD

Yeah both those guys wanted to go there from memory - we are talking about players ending up at a club they didn't want to play for

 

[Noidnadroj]

Let me summarise

You want us to pay a portion of boltons contract to get a deal done.

Im arguing we don’t need to.

That’s about it right?

Don’t pay salary and trade gets done. We get 11 and 18.

Pay a little bit of salary and trade gets done. We get 10 and 18.

Pay a decent chunk of salary and deal gets done. We get 10 and 11.

Pay a sh*t load of his salary and deal gets done. We get 10, 11 and 18.

That’s how it would work. Of course we don’t pay salary if it doesn’t change the draft capital we get …. but logically it will.


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[SumTingWong]

Pick 25 is the compo for Jack Graham according to a inside info guy at Richmond on the tigercast

Said Richmond knows

Is he the same person that said we want FOS, Lalor and Smith in this draft?

 

[Roksman]

That’s more than Geelong gave for Dangerfield or Cameron. It’s more than Port gave for JHF. It’s more than Freo gave for Luke Jackson.

Bolton is an excitement machine who can do anything. He’s also a pretty terrible kick.

Don’t get me wrong, he will be a great asset for Freo and we should drive a hard bargain, but we are not trading Dustin Martin circa 2017.


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Dangerfield - out of contract free agent
Cameron - out of contract free agent
Jackson - out of contract

Context is very important and this is why the media (and the cesspool that is social media) are insufferable, because they compare apples with oranges.

If you think 3-4 years in contract doesn't matter than you are objectively wrong.

I don't know what we'll get but will never use those as comparable trades.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Don’t pay salary and trade gets done. We get 11 and 18.

Pay a little bit of salary and trade gets done. We get 10 and 18.

Pay a decent chunk of salary and deal gets done. We get 10 and 11.

Pay a sh*t load of his salary and deal gets done. We get 10, 11 and 18.

That’s how it would work. Of course we don’t pay salary if it doesn’t change the draft capital we get …. but logically it will.


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We hold the cards. He’s contracted. It’s that simple. I’m sure the brains trust has war gamed it and thought about a salary dump but that should be the furthest thing from our mind right now. We may still need to bring players in.

 

[Azzleberry]

30 odd pages day 1.

Im gonna be taking 10 pretend toilet breaks a day at this rate, ease up campaigners

 

[Sir_Loin]

30 odd pages day 1.

Im gonna be taking 10 pretend toilet breaks a day at this rate, ease up campaigners

10 pretend salary dumps more like it

 

[Maurice Mitchell]

The agenda is as clear as day. Look at the commission. Goyer should be in jail, instead he's on the board of Qantas and the AFL commission. Watch the shit that comes out about that carnt.......

Reminds of one of my favourite posts.

 

[RJK Tiger]

You do realise the soft cap and the hard cap are totally different? So comparing paying Rance to paying Dusty or a fringe player has 2 fiths of **** all to do with each other.
The suns aren’t short of cash , far from it.
Now you’re just trying to be a smart campaigner. When your actually only coming across as a campaigner

Yes but you do realise they actually have to pay these people with real money - not just cap space right?

Suns are not loaded with cash mate. They registered a statutory loss of $1.7m in 2023 alone, I dare say they have a few players that would likely be starting 18 for us that they would happily part with to save the cash/player cap.

You do realise i have been following footy a long time now? I am well aware that coaches don't count in your player cap yeah?

 

[Azzleberry]

10 pretend salary dumps more like it

They only happen in the Lexus centre

 

[Noidnadroj]

Dangerfield - out of contract free agent
Cameron - out of contract free agent
Jackson - out of contract

Context is very important and this is why the media (and the cesspool that is social media) are insufferable, because they compare apples with oranges.

If you think 3-4 years in contract doesn't matter than you are objectively wrong.

I don't know what we'll get but will never use those as comparable trades.

Just making the point we are not trading a player the quality of Danger or Cameron. And trading a quality player in contract is very rare, so not many good comparisons I can think of.

Papley was in contract when Carlton wanted him. A single pick around 10 was gonna get it done.

Houston is contracted. Dual AA. He won’t get traded for anything remotely as good as pick 10 and 11 in this super strong draft.

We might get 10 and 11 if we pay some salary. Or 10 and 11 if we give back a F2 or F3 perhaps.

Just because he’s contracted it doesn’t mean it makes sense for us to reject trade value that makes sense, even if it’s not seen as ‘massive overs’. And just because he’s contracted it doesn’t mean Freo will offer something ridiculous. It certainly makes it harder for Freo, but from Freo’s point of view his value to them is the same whether he’s contracted or not, so they’ll pay a little more but will still only offer a trade that makes sense to them.

So for some here we seem to think - he’s contracted so we will get massive overs in a trade. Not realising teams won’t pay massive overs when they can get other players in trades or save the money for free agents they get for nothing.

But I agree, there are not many comparisons, but if we get 10 and 11 with us giving back a little something that’s a great deal and I’d take it and run rather than keep Bolton and get less in the future in likely weaker drafts.


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[Sir_Loin]

Just making the point we are not trading a player the quality of Danger or Cameron. And trading a quality player in contract is very rare, so not many good comparisons I can think of.

Papley was in contract when Carlton wanted him. A single pick around 10 was gonna get it done.

Houston is contracted. Dual AA. He won’t get traded for anything remotely as good as pick 10 and 11 in this super strong draft.

We might get 10 and 11 if we pay some salary. Or 10 and 11 if we give back a F2 or F3 perhaps.

Just because he’s contracted it doesn’t mean it makes sense for us to reject trade value that makes sense, even if it’s not seen as ‘massive overs’. And just because he’s contracted it doesn’t mean Freo will offer something ridiculous. It certainly makes it harder for Freo, but from Freo’s point of view his value to them is the same whether he’s contracted or not, so they’ll pay a little more but will still only offer a trade that makes sense to them.

So for some here we seem to think - he’s contracted so we will get massive overs in a trade. Not realising teams won’t pay massive overs when they can get other players in trades or save the money for free agents they get for nothing.

But I agree, there are not many comparisons, but if we get 10 and 11 with us giving back a little something that’s a great deal and I’d take it and run rather than keep Bolton and get less in the future in likely weaker drafts.


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Shai is absolutely up there with those players. What did Dangerfield and Cameron achieve before those trades. F’all comparatively.

We know Freo’s position. They need to win one now they’re not going to do it with draft picks unless they trade them for match winners. If they went back to their supporter base and said they’re hitting the draft again after building for years they’d be furious

 

[Michaels]

Pick 25 is the compo for Jack Graham according to a inside info guy at Richmond on the tigercast

Said Richmond knows

Hopefully he is bang on!!

He has typically been very clued in on a lot of stuff I’ve noticed.

 

[Dragonss]

Freo is such a dumpster club they really need to get Walls a negotiation coach because he's taking a dump on the couch like a mutt.

Shai has 50 brownlow votes over his 135 games. The picks 10 and 11 (which will blow out to likely 13 and 14 after Ashcroft, Lombard and Kako bids), the only superstar to be taken with pick 13 over the last 10 years is Cripps, the 2 good players taken with pick 14 over the last 10 years is Lever and Hipwood. That's 3 players out of 20. We're letting go of a superstar premiership player who has averaged 1.5 goals a game in a down year, 5.5 score involvements, 3 clearances in a year where we only won 2 games. At the height of his game he was averaging 7+ score involvements in 2022 and 2023, in the top dozen players.

Maybe Freo are salty because he could have kicked 7 on them in round 18 but instead only kicked 4.3.

They're afraid of giving up a 100% chance of landing a superstar for a 15% chance to land a good player with both of their picks. No wonder they've never won a premiership whereas i've seen a dynasty of 3 in my lifetime.

 

[kuhni]

Freo is such a dumpster club they really need to get Walls a negotiation coach because he's taking a dump on the couch like a mutt.

Shai has 50 brownlow votes over his 135 games. The picks 10 and 11 (which will blow out to likely 13 and 14 after Ashcroft, Lombard and Kako bids), the only superstar to be taken with pick 13 over the last 10 years is Cripps, the 2 good players taken with pick 14 over the last 10 years is Lever and Hipwood. That's 3 players out of 20. We're letting go of a superstar premiership player who has averaged 1.5 goals a game in a down year, 5.5 score involvements, 3 clearances in a year where we only won 2 games. At the height of his game he was averaging 7+ score involvements in 2022 and 2023, in the top dozen players.

Maybe Freo are salty because he could have kicked 7 on them in round 18 but instead only kicked 4.3.

They're afraid of giving up a 100% chance of landing a superstar for a 15% chance to land a good player with both of their picks. No wonder they've never won a premiership whereas i've seen a dynasty of 3 in my lifetime.

View attachment 2134739

Kozzi was Pick 12 just a few years back, basically as like-for-like as you can get.
It´s been mentioned that this draft compared to others is quite even near the top so I´d hazard a guess that your pick 9-16 players to be of a better standard than usual.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

The campaigner absolutely hates Richmond.

Was a judge for the rising star and refused to watch Richmond games.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

tomorrow is the day

the day the teddy bears have their picnic

 

[Roksman]

So for some here we seem to think - he’s contracted so we will get massive overs in a trade. Not realising teams won’t pay massive overs when they can get other players in trades or save the money for free agents they get for nothing.


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Just wanted to address this part.

To be honest, normally I would agree but I think we just simply find ourselves in a lucky situation and rare one.

That being, the two clubs interested are both:

1. Already stacked with high end draftees and therefore aren't so hellbent on picks
2. In a hurry / ready to push for a flag (for different reasons). Dimma will be effectively demanding they get Rioli and he doesn't give a **** what it costs in picks.

The narrative of "they can just get other players" is completely false. These clubs spend months/ years courting players and their reputations will take a huge hit even they can't close a deal they effectively promised the player they would. Player agents in future will tell clients how they should think twice about committing to X club as they pulled out of the deal.

Time will tell though.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Just making the point we are not trading a player the quality of Danger or Cameron. And trading a quality player in contract is very rare, so not many good comparisons I can think of.

Papley was in contract when Carlton wanted him. A single pick around 10 was gonna get it done.

Houston is contracted. Dual AA. He won’t get traded for anything remotely as good as pick 10 and 11 in this super strong draft.

We might get 10 and 11 if we pay some salary. Or 10 and 11 if we give back a F2 or F3 perhaps.

Just because he’s contracted it doesn’t mean it makes sense for us to reject trade value that makes sense, even if it’s not seen as ‘massive overs’. And just because he’s contracted it doesn’t mean Freo will offer something ridiculous. It certainly makes it harder for Freo, but from Freo’s point of view his value to them is the same whether he’s contracted or not, so they’ll pay a little more but will still only offer a trade that makes sense to them.

So for some here we seem to think - he’s contracted so we will get massive overs in a trade. Not realising teams won’t pay massive overs when they can get other players in trades or save the money for free agents they get for nothing.

But I agree, there are not many comparisons, but if we get 10 and 11 with us giving back a little something that’s a great deal and I’d take it and run rather than keep Bolton and get less in the future in likely weaker drafts.


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Dangerfield if we are honest has been regarded as at least equal to any player in the competition over a whole season, probably multiple seasons. Even with all his obvious flaws. Geelong were able to offer something better than FA compensation for him and the Crows were realistic enough to know that though they could match and retain him, they needed to yield. So he was traded for picks that ended up at 11 at 33 and a player Gore who turned out no good, but the Crows must have thought held some promise. Crows sent back a pick that I think ended up at 53. This was really a compromise deal, half way between what would have been the FA compo, pick 18, and Dangerfield's real trade value at the time, probably a top 5 pick + a late first rounder. I always half suspect the Crows were not exactly dragged kicking and screaming to hand over Dangerfield, who is not what you would ever call a total team player. They lost him and improved to win 17 games in each of the next 2 seasons, including 3 finals. Very high level player who doesn't necessarily make your team function better.

Cameron is nowhere near that level of player. He is a very skilful player, tall and a great runner, but has to play like a glorified wingman because he is relatively a very weak contested player. Giants rightly dug their heals right in with him and gouged something around the net value of pick 2 out of Geelong to hand him over at 28 years of age.

Bolton as a talent is somewhere around the level of the average of this pair. He doesn't have Dangerfield's ability to win hard ball gets in the middle and break away. But Dangerfield does not have anywhere near Bolton's cleverness aorund goals. Bolton doesn't have Cameron's finishing skills, but Cameron does not have anywhere near Bolton's ability to win high tariff contests. Bolton will be just turned 26 when he plays his first game in 2025. Cameron was just turning 28 around the start of his first season at Geelong.

Picks 10 & 11 this year will become 12 & 13 if not worse. That is roughly the value of what Cameron traded for, uncontracted and almost 2 years older, and probably on a pretty similar contract relative to the salary cap. Cameron's highest ever player rating, despite being fed at every possible turn by Geelong and to some extent Giants prior, is below Bolton's best level. And Bolton has proven he can play in a successful team prior to the trade. If Richmond don't get at least 12 & 13 without paying one cent of Bolton's salary they are doing something wrong. Richmond will want a 3rd valuable pick, maybe the later rd 1 pick or a good 2nd round pick, and given the cap position at Richmond they may be prepared to cough up some salary to get the 3rd pick. The expected strength in this draft may discount Bolton's price slightly, or mean they pay a little more in salary for a 3rd pick, but there should not be a world in which Richmond don't get Freo's best 2 picks in this trade. All the argy bargy should be what comes on top of that and how much, if any, Richmond pays for that.

On top of all else the position of the two clubs going into the trade tells you that. Fremantle are desperate for this type and level of player, and Richmond are sitting in total ownership with the very player they want contracted for 4 more years. Clearly Richmond are open to the trade on realistic terms, but that will be way down the Richmond end of the realistic spectrum.

 

[THE_GUN]

Mate don’t take the bat and ball home. Stand by what you posted. You also went on to make a point that we’ve paid players to play for other clubs.

What’s the problem?


I’d be shocked if he asked for a trade

I can only play ball with another person that understands the game, You im afraid need more lessons to even learn how its played . Again go home study read and learn

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Just wanted to address this part.

To be honest, normally I would agree but I think we just simply find ourselves in a lucky situation and rare one.

That being, the two clubs interested are both:

1. Already stacked with high end draftees and therefore aren't so hellbent on picks
2. In a hurry / ready to push for a flag (for different reasons). Dimma will be effectively demanding they get Rioli and he doesn't give a **** what it costs in picks.

The narrative of "they can just get other players" is completely false. These clubs spend months/ years courting players and their reputations will take a huge hit even they can't close a deal they effectively promised the player they would. Player agents in future will tell clients how they should think twice about committing to X club as they pulled out of the deal.

Time will tell though.

Also, there isn't just another Rioli or Bolton out there available.

Rioli is a proper 2 way running half back with the full gamut of skills and intent required to play the position. He is probably the most inspirational half back in the competition.

Bolton is a total one off, there aren't other players who can do what he can do(damaging clearances on the burst, plus win big contests ahead of the ball both on the ground and in the air, plus cannot be tackled.) If Freo missed the chance to get him, it doesn't come again, possibly ever, and defiitely not from within the current cohort of players.

We should fully expect a very high trade value for both of these long contracted players.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

That’s more than Geelong gave for Dangerfield or Cameron. It’s more than Port gave for JHF. It’s more than Freo gave for Luke Jackson.

Bolton is an excitement machine who can do anything. He’s also a pretty terrible kick.

Don’t get me wrong, he will be a great asset for Freo and we should drive a hard bargain, but we are not trading Dustin Martin circa 2017.


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Bolton is not a terrible kick. He is just not a great kick.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

That’s more than Geelong gave for Dangerfield or Cameron. It’s more than Port gave for JHF. It’s more than Freo gave for Luke Jackson.

Bolton is an excitement machine who can do anything. He’s also a pretty terrible kick.

Don’t get me wrong, he will be a great asset for Freo and we should drive a hard bargain, but we are not trading Dustin Martin circa 2017.


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Also the Horne-Francis deal from the North perspective...

They gave up pick 1, JHF and an F3 expected value high 40's.

They got back, picks 2, 3, Port's f1(ev around pick 13) picks 40, 43.

So let's just say the f3 and pick 43 cancel each other out.

North gave up 3000 draft points, and got back around 6400 value in draft points. The trade was probably even slightly more favourable to North than that, so let's say it works out to around 3500 draft points they got for JHF.

If Richmond got the top 3 Freo picks, and took them all to the draft, they will be 12, 13, 21 or similar. Just over 3,300 points which is not more than North got for JHF. And the deal you were respondng to had a pick in the 30's going back to Freo, meaning it would be about 2,800 points value to Richmond. This is actually appreciably less than North got for JHF.

 

[THE_GUN]

Fremantle will pay #10 + #11

They have an opportunity to actually win a flag and they have this missing piece in their team which is exactly what Shai Bolton

15

Shai Bolton

Age

26

Ht

176cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.3

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

12.7

3star

K

9.2

4star

HB

3.5

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

4star

CL

1.8

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.6

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.0

1star

is and they know it. Not only that but they need salary contribution with Shai Bolton

15

Shai Bolton

Age

26

Ht

176cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.3

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

12.7

3star

K

9.2

4star

HB

3.5

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

4star

CL

1.8

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.6

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.0

1star

on $1 million plus a year contracted for 4 years which will be extended to 5 years. 5 years is the important part as they is the exact time their window will remain open as their salary cap will be bursting in 3 years time once " This young team they are so proud of start demanding huge salary increases"

Blair knows exactly where this deal sits and will extract maximum draft capital Freo can pay as they know their draft picks are not that great #12 , #13 , #21 is the number these picks will be on draft night and thats why Walls has said there are 1st rounders then there are 1st rounder. They are not holding picks #3 , #4 & #10

The Games have began and i know we will all miss Shai Boltons magic for the next 7 years but we will be very well rewarded
I have no doubt Blair has told Walls we want all 3 of their 1st rounders before the conversation starts

We will end up with #10 + #11