List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 4

[richoatthedisco]

Say we do bring Mitchell in, who does he replace in our centre square set up?

Martin
Prestia
Cotchin
Bolton
Edwards
Graham

Secondly given he replaces one of them, where do they now line up in the 22?

Thirdly, what happens to the development of RCD Dow Ross & Martyn plus picks 7 & 15 in terms of them getting opportunity in the senior side?

Finally, what happens when Mitchell coming in means that the likes of RCD or Dow decide that because they aren't getting opportunities they decide to request trades next year? Unlike a 200cm 100kg ruck/forward who draws a bit of a premium at the trade table, unproven midfielders aren't going to get us a good deal when they leave, see Corey Ellis.

This is why I mentioned about looking at the bigger picture rather than people getting seduced by the short term gain bringing in Mitchell can give us.

I recall this time in 2016 when we were coming off a year worse than this one and people were suggesting we were never going to win a flag with this group and should begin rebuilding. Fast forward 12 months and we'd win the flag as it clicked due to unproven types stepping up, plus the smart recruiting of Prestia Nankervis and Caddy, who all had 7+ years left in their careers, coming in and filling big gaps in our line up.

IMO Mitchell doesn't fill a gap in our line up, as we don't have a game plan that revolves around midfielders racking up big possession numbers. We've been beating teams through a different weight of numbers. We'd win the turnover battle, we'd win the time in forward half battle, we'd win the intercept battle and then counter attack before teams could get back and stop us by moving the ball forwards in any way necessary. Mitchell is a stat padder once the ball leaves the centre square with his around the back handballs and little 1-2s. That was how Cotchin played at the beginning of the 2010s and he was criticised for not having big impacts on games despite getting big possession numbers. As soon as that changed and he became a player who had big impact with fewer touches we went from a finals contender to a premiership contender and winner.

So for mine Mitchell is a hard pass as I think we'll gain more over the long term from the 5 kids we take in the draft this year.

Lol, "let's not win a flag in case a 14-disposal mid with no spread or defensive run decides to leave".

 

[TheDyerLegacy]

This will be Blair when he trades for Mitchell...

"Hrmmm first round pick... and he only averages 35 disposals... wins clearances... well all I'll give you a future third round pick"



..An even better Simpsons reference would be when Flanders is have a garage sale and homer buys all his stuff for $1 but I couldn't find it!

 

[richoatthedisco]

Giants young gun Bobby Hill wants to be traded to Victorian-based AFL club

Giants young gun Bobby Hill wants to be traded to Victorian-based AFL club

Giant wants out: Star requests move to Victorian club - and two are open to a trade

www.foxsports.com.au

Hill was our second choice after RCD in 2018. Frank loved him. Would walk into our side.

 

[Stevi_Tigers]

Just 1?

Family pie

 

[Bojangles17]

Giants young gun Bobby Hill wants to be traded to Victorian-based AFL club

Giants young gun Bobby Hill wants to be traded to Victorian-based AFL club

Giant wants out: Star requests move to Victorian club - and two are open to a trade

www.foxsports.com.au

Would we be interested , has he done much yet , was highly fared at draft time. For mine I want to try Stacky in those small forward roles , not sure he offers anything we haven’t got , he still needs to improve some to make a reg impact at the level

 

[Barunga Bullet]

Pick 28 for bobby Hill?

 

[Sir_Loin]

For a pick in the 30s or so yes please

won’t happen. We don’t have any cap space apparently

 

[Sol23]

How do you suggest Richmond pay for Mitchell and if he is this clearance beast, why are no clubs in talks with him?

Never said we could afford him. I do
Hope the club is trying its best to make it happen though.
You don’t think other clubs are talking about getting him?? Give me a break.
Sick of people on here talking up blokes like Graham but then bag genuine guns of the comp like Mitchell.

 

[OhDustinMartin]

we must get into bobby hill. he is the answer to the aarts/castagna stagnation.

 

[OhDustinMartin]

Martin Lynch Bolton
B. Hill Riewoldt MRJ/Georgey

Make it ****ing happen RFC, round one, 'ere we go.

 

[Old M8]

Yeah Bobby Hill thanks. He was our second pick after RCD in his draft year, so our recruiters were keen

 

[Karp3_dm]

Castagna + Aarts for Bobby hill

 

[Vlastuin Space]

I reckon trading 38 and 40 for the Dogs pick 23 would round out a pretty solid trade period. Gives us the higher pick, gives the dogs extra points to match their bid and everyone is happy. 7, 15, 23, 26, 28 is a hell of a draft hand. Especially if the talent is apparently even from 5-30 as some experts are predicting.

 

[4tune8]

Surely you look at the deal in net terms using credible projections for where the picks end up being taken in the draft.

North would have been giving up a genuine pick 1 + a pick expected to be taken in the low 20’s.

They would receive in return a known pick. Crows 2021 first rounder is actually pick 6. Then two 2022 picks currently with realistic expected values of around 7th and 18th selections int he draft.

So in reality the net gain in terms of quantity of players would be +1. Are you really giving up Horne to add one extra top 10 pick to your playing list?

Those projections were from a post I was replying to, so it would be pertinent to use a projected range for all of those picks.

2021 Adelaide 1st: Pick 6 as a known pick

2022 Melb. 1st: Somewhere between say 14-18 and who knows, they might end up with injuries like we had or they might be premiers.

2022 North 1st: Realistically bottom 4 so a pick 1-4

2022 Adelaide 1st: Can't see too many teams below them, so 1-2

2022 North 2nd: 19-23

Best case = 6-14-1-2 cost 1 + 19
Worst case = 6-18-4-2 cost 1 + 23

Without trading:

Best case = 1-2-19
Worst case = 1-4-23

So the net benefit is gaining pick 6 this year and a 5 spot upgrade of the 2nd next year for the cost of passing on JHF. Obviously a gamble because JHF has looked good, the player taken at 6 could be nearly as good. I still think that by adding an extra player at pick 6 and the upgrade of the 2nd rnd pick is worth it to add that many players over the 2 years. Those who are risk averse would probably not see it that way.

 

[_RT_]

Lol, "let's not win a flag in case a 14-disposal mid with no spread or defensive run decides to leave".

Lol, thinking getting Mitchell guarantees a flag.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Can't help but chuckle at the fact Norf are consoling themselves over the CCJ deal with the fact they probably would have picked a dud anyway.

 

[_RT_]

Egg & Garth still on the list is Baffling

Astbury retire Garth still not good enough and we get a 33 year old tarrant so why keep Garth

Expecting that to change come Thursday once the trade period ends and we know what we've got.

 

[Tygrys]

Lol, thinking getting Mitchell guarantees a flag.

Yep next he'll be arguing 7 & 15 should be both on the table for him. I mean it's a guaranteed flag for christ sake!!!

 

[Rubber Hips]

It's a selfish move, but he's also been in the system 5 years and knows that 2022 he'd be at the back of the queue at tiger land. I think his reasons of wanting to play more senior footy are completely fair , no player owes a club imo as clubs trade and move players along when it suits them.

id agree with this for almost all players…for example I was fully supportive of Cholly leaving…he had the clubs blessing

with CJ …it was a the major **** up on his behalf and the impact it had on the club was significant and was very poor form for him to want to leave…timing was crap you have to agree….
club was pretty pissed off

…but now after Blair worked his magic…things worked out brilliantly for us

.I say good riddens cj….all the best in tassie

 

[richoatthedisco]

Lol, thinking getting Mitchell guarantees a flag.

Jesus ****ing Christ. I didn't say it guarantees anything. But it sure as shit increases our chances.

Lol at not wanting to give ourselves the best chance at making hay while the sun shines.

Yep next he'll be arguing 7 & 15 should be both on the table for him. I mean it's a guaranteed flag for christ sake!!!

Na, maybe read the posts where I said it's a fire sale so let's squeeze them and do it for pick 28.

 

[prodigy]

I'd 100% take Bobby Hill. Would only take a second rounder you'd imagine.
If we delist Garth and Egg it gives us two extra list spots which takes us up to six. One for Hill, 5 picks to take to the draft if need be.
I wouldn't be surprised if St Kilda get involved here as well.
Im not holding my breath on this one, but would be nice.
Plus he is only 21!!!

 

[Rubber Hips]

I dunno he could have gone in the PSD and we would have got nothing for him. Rumour is CCJ refused to do this ensuring we at least got something.

Norf didn’t want to go to psd…cj had no say in it

 

[_RT_]

Jesus ******* Christ. I didn't say it guarantees anything. But it sure as sh*t increases our chances.

Lol at not wanting to give ourselves the best chance at making hay while the sun shines.


Na, maybe read the posts where I said it's a fire sale so let's squeeze them and do it for pick 28.

I agree that Mitchell improves our chances, but at what cost, hence all the questions at the start.

Who does he replace in the centre square set up?

Where does the player he replace then line up?

What happens to the development of the kids like RCD Dow Ross & Martyn?

What happens if the likes of Dow and/or RCD then request a trade because they aren't getting opportunities?

 

[Hoos]

Looks like Sam Mitchell is already trying to micro-manage everything.
Looks a recepie for disaster imo.
He has already sidelined the leadership group.

Good.

I've seen quite enough of the mustard pots winning premierships thank you very much.

 

[Hoos]

It's almost worth st Kilda winning the flag just so Carlton take the mantle of longest drought. fu** em.

And that ain't happening anytime soon.