List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 4

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.
GhostofJimJess said:
I was never a big fan of the Yarran trade even in the lead up - thought he was flakey and a bit soft tbh. But it was only made into a real shocker with the benefit of hindsight. It's fine for people to criticise the Richmond list management team with not doing due diligence, but the sort of intelligence required on Yarran simply wasn't available. It'd be like us recruiting Docherty 12 months ago without demanding a look at his oncologist's report.
Click to expand...

I really like your posting but this one has me scratching my head. I could hear the concerns from up here in Qld - Yarran was doing stuff, drinking, unstable etc. If we could hear it up here, why not down there. The Yarran deal reeked trouble from the outset - somehow, somewhere, someone dropped the ball - free kick Carlton - and didn't they give it to us!
 
Last edited:
tigerdan said:
Carlton repeating the mistakes we made when overpaying for Kane Johnson. 15 years or so until they get their sh*t together. Hopefully longer.

It's almost worth st Kilda winning the flag just so Carlton take the mantle of longest drought. fu** em.
Click to expand...
If he’s not on 700 then it’s 695 , they got bigger herrings on their list that are still years off being delisted , eg mcluvin
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Stevi_Tigers said:
Apparently the breakthrough in negotiations came when blair gave luff a pie
Click to expand...

You sure about this - I thought it was a tart! I guess the way to a man's heart is though his stomach (and what hangs from it)
 
I made a bet with a Carlspoon fan in 2018 that they will overtake the 37 year premiership drought. Looks a safe bet.
tigerdan said:
Carlton repeating the mistakes we made when overpaying for Kane Johnson. 15 years or so until they get their sh*t together. Hopefully longer.

It's almost worth st Kilda winning the flag just so Carlton take the mantle of longest drought. fu** em.
Click to expand...
 
GhostofJimJess said:
I was never a big fan of the Yarran trade even in the lead up - thought he was flakey and a bit soft tbh. But it was only made into a real shocker with the benefit of hindsight. It's fine for people to criticise the Richmond list management team with not doing due diligence, but the sort of intelligence required on Yarran simply wasn't available. It'd be like us recruiting Docherty 12 months ago without demanding a look at his oncologist's report.


Very understandable from player and manager pov. You could imagine that they'd have wanted some degree of certainty about where he's playing in 2022 and beyond. He can now start his official training with the Roos and not miss nearly two months of preparation. There's also that little skerrick of risk involved if he waits eg. would a serious knee injury possibly derail his potential $2M contract. No, just lock it in now while the Roos are keen.


On the flipside, there's nothing to suggest that the Crows won't be vying for the spoon in 2022. I'm struggling to find any more than a couple of teams that are worse than them.

And then there's Melbourne. In the last five years, two premiers have slipped out of the 8 the following year. The Bulldogs just seemed to lose their way immediately after an epoch-drought-ending flag, and the Tigers were struck down with a raft of extended and extensive injuries to critical players after 2020.

How might the Dees respond psychologically to their flag? What would an injury to any three of Gawn, Oliver, Petracca, May and Lever look like for them? They are as dependent on their top handful of players as any other team in the comp. And yes, they're also a system-based team as well, but so were we until we got punched in the face in 2021. West Coast finished 5th in 2019, and they were a monster team in 2018. The Dees could just as easily finish outside the top 4 if recent history is anything to go by.

I'm not 100% certain I'd do the North-Crows deal either, but the Roos could just as easily be knocking back Picks #1-ish, #4 and #14-ish for Horne-Francis. But then again, so could Adelaide.
Click to expand...

The Yarran part is a little revisionist. While we weren’t aware of the meth we knew he had mental health concerns and yet we pushed ahead anyway. We learnt a lot from that trade and if Balme was at the club at the time I doubt the trade would of gone ahead. One of his first acts was to cut Yarran free quickly and relatively painlessly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
sregit said:
I am not saying Mitchell isn’t worth getting just not with a first rounder. Pick 28+40. Which I doubt they’d accept. But I’d offer no more. Hawthorn are the ones wanting to move him on. Pay minimal price.
Click to expand...
Agreed. No club should do any favours for Hawthorn. It would be so good to see them as a struggling bottom team for many years. Highlight Kennett as being the short-sided bully that he is.
 
Phar Ace said:
I really like your posting but this one has me scratching my head. I could hear the concerns fro up here in Qld - Yarran was doing stuff, drinking, unstable etc. If we could hear it up here, why not down there. The Yarran deal reeked trouble from the outset - somehow, somewhere, someone dropped the ball - free kick Carlton - and didn't they give it to us!
Click to expand...
Yea they’re certainly didn’t appear to be much due diligence, I wonder how he got past the lie detector test or indeed what questions were even asked , that recruiting decision was a blight on those involved , hopefully a lot of learnings
 
Maurice Mitchell said:
Look at all the teams around us on that list. All bottom four or five. Not a strong club anywhere near us.

We are showing the league how you run a club; how you can always be successful - just don’t get greedy and sell out the future.

Unlike a lot of other clubs, we can afford to drop down, we can take that risk. The supporter base will still be there.

I don’t believe that will happen and I’m sure nor do the club, but if it did, we wouldn’t fear financial disaster like Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney.

I love that we don’t keep topping up and also that we don’t ship out loyal, respected servants. Unlike other clubs, the draft picks keep coming without us having to tear up the fabric of our club.
Click to expand...
Yep.
How would you feel being a hawk premiership player right now.
They marched Hodge/Lewis & Mitchell out the door quick smart.
Now 5yrs down the track they're doing exactly the samething.
Family club.Pffffffffffffffffttttttttttttttt.
'
 
4tune8 said:
The main reason that North were foolish to knock back the bid is that they had an opportunity to add 4 quality kids to their list in one fell swoop, the heart of any successful team is having a core group of players hitting their straps at about the same time in their careers.

North have added quite a bit of quality to their list over the last 5 seasons.
Phillips
Powell
Thomas
LDU
Simpkin

I have no idea what they were thinking when they traded for Polec and Pittard, maybe Scott had something to with that ballsup. Nonetheless, they could have added picks:
4-1-2-14 over the next 2 years and used those picks for more needs based choices (bit like the Dees did with Luke Jackson) and built that core of solid players.

I think the cost of missing out on JHF is outweighed by the benefit of that immediate core rebuild.
Click to expand...

I love this observation. That's why I'm really wary of suggestions that effective wipe out our draft hand or mortgage next years draft to try and get a pick 2 or 3 or 4 etc. Firstly whilst there might be slightly higher probability that the player that you draft through that method will be a gun there is no guarantee. Also one bad ACL and it could be effectively game over. Unless we are talking a generational talent like a Dustin Martin, I much rather multiple selections at drafting a wide spread of talent from the first and early 2 round etc.

Nail the draft, you cover multiple positions, they are all come through together, you establish an esprit de corps and there is always a good chance that at least one of them will be as good as that lone player that you would have sold the farm to get. Transformative drafts like that can win you premierships. And yeah I would have taken Adelaide's offer in a heartbeat.
 
Last edited:
richoatthedisco said:
The difference being Hawthorn traded out of the draft when winning flags while we have continued to bring kids in and have a stacked draft hand this year.

We are in the business of winning premierships. We won't be winning one for a while once Dusty and co are gone. We can win another one or two while we still have the GOAT and his mates. If we get them some help.

Don't trade the farm. Bring in one or two quality, experienced farm hands to extract the absolute most from a historic crop, while seeding the top paddock.

When caps are tight and picks are scarce and the coach is ringing around trying to flog off his stars, it's a buyer's market.
Click to expand...
Say we do bring Mitchell in, who does he replace in our centre square set up?

Martin
Prestia
Cotchin
Bolton
Edwards
Graham

Secondly given he replaces one of them, where do they now line up in the 22?

Thirdly, what happens to the development of RCD Dow Ross & Martyn plus picks 7 & 15 in terms of them getting opportunity in the senior side?

Finally, what happens when Mitchell coming in means that the likes of RCD or Dow decide that because they aren't getting opportunities they decide to request trades next year? Unlike a 200cm 100kg ruck/forward who draws a bit of a premium at the trade table, unproven midfielders aren't going to get us a good deal when they leave, see Corey Ellis.

This is why I mentioned about looking at the bigger picture rather than people getting seduced by the short term gain bringing in Mitchell can give us.

I recall this time in 2016 when we were coming off a year worse than this one and people were suggesting we were never going to win a flag with this group and should begin rebuilding. Fast forward 12 months and we'd win the flag as it clicked due to unproven types stepping up, plus the smart recruiting of Prestia Nankervis and Caddy, who all had 7+ years left in their careers, coming in and filling big gaps in our line up.

IMO Mitchell doesn't fill a gap in our line up, as we don't have a game plan that revolves around midfielders racking up big possession numbers. We've been beating teams through a different weight of numbers. We'd win the turnover battle, we'd win the time in forward half battle, we'd win the intercept battle and then counter attack before teams could get back and stop us by moving the ball forwards in any way necessary. Mitchell is a stat padder once the ball leaves the centre square with his around the back handballs and little 1-2s. That was how Cotchin played at the beginning of the 2010s and he was criticised for not having big impacts on games despite getting big possession numbers. As soon as that changed and he became a player who had big impact with fewer touches we went from a finals contender to a premiership contender and winner.

So for mine Mitchell is a hard pass as I think we'll gain more over the long term from the 5 kids we take in the draft this year.
 
Aristotle Pickett said:
Looks like Sam Mitchell is already trying to micro-manage everything.
Looks a recepie for disaster imo.
He has already sidelined the leadership group.
Click to expand...
Early days, but sounds very "Crazy Vossy" from his Lions coaching stint. Got the team to finals, got ahead of himself (themselves) and he was given too much say in trade and list management processes and it backfired. No matter how much they're "a champion of the club", "the next great coach" etc, if they're given too much scope and too little support and oversight, it can go pear shaped very quickly!

Sent from my CPH1951 using Tapatalk
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

GoTigers2015 said:
BLUES’ PAY CUTS FOR CERRA REVEALED

Up to six of Carlton’s “biggest stars” took pay cuts to fit Adam Cerra into the club’s salary cap, reports Seven.

Cerra has joined the club on a four-year deal worth around $2.6 to $2.8 million, while George Hewett joined as a free agent signing a contract worth closer to $1.8 million across four years.


The moves surprised many, given the Blues’ recent trade activity, leading to questions about how they had enough cap room.

But the report claims as many as six players accepted less money to open up space for Cerra.

“I don’t think it’s much more than he would’ve got at Fremantle; this is more about him moving home as opposed to accepting a bigger deal at the Blues,” Seven’s Mitch Cleary said.

“This is the first buy-in to this selflessness the club’s talked about; Melbourne’s done it in the roots of their premiership.”

View attachment 1256446


This is the same sort of sugar coating from the media when Pies players sacrificed salary to fit in Beams. The reality is the players would have back-ended their deals and just makes the problem worse later on when they have to re-sign Walsh.

Carlspoon are not going to get anywhere near a flag with the average players that they have overpaid for. Love drinking their own bath water
Click to expand...

Carlton list management : Boys we need some good PR and with the new players coming and new coach we want to let the world know we are now different. Can we get some players to take pay cuts ..... Paddy Dow , LOB , Plowman , Marchbank , McGovern , Docherty all taking $5000 a year less

Headlines. 6 Carlton players tke pay cuts to fit Cerra = New Culture like Richmond
 
4tune8 said:
The main reason that North were foolish to knock back the bid is that they had an opportunity to add 4 quality kids to their list in one fell swoop, the heart of any successful team is having a core group of players hitting their straps at about the same time in their careers.

North have added quite a bit of quality to their list over the last 5 seasons.
Phillips
Powell
Thomas
LDU
Simpkin

I have no idea what they were thinking when they traded for Polec and Pittard, maybe Scott had something to with that ballsup. Nonetheless, they could have added picks:
4-1-2-14 over the next 2 years and used those picks for more needs based choices (bit like the Dees did with Luke Jackson) and built that core of solid players.

I think the cost of missing out on JHF is outweighed by the benefit of that immediate core rebuild.
Click to expand...

Surely you look at the deal in net terms using credible projections for where the picks end up being taken in the draft.

North would have been giving up a genuine pick 1 + a pick expected to be taken in the low 20’s.

They would receive in return a known pick. Crows 2021 first rounder is actually pick 6. Then two 2022 picks currently with realistic expected values of around 7th and 18th selections int he draft.

So in reality the net gain in terms of quantity of players would be +1. Are you really giving up Horne to add one extra top 10 pick to your playing list?
 
Azzleberry said:
Where did I say if had?
Just don't see any reason why a previously delisted Egg who again didn't meet the level required would still be on our list at this point in time
Click to expand...
Egg & Garth still on the list is Baffling

Astbury retire Garth still not good enough and we get a 33 year old tarrant so why keep Garth
 
Phar Ace said:
I really like your posting but this one has me scratching my head. I could hear the concerns from up here in Qld - Yarran was doing stuff, drinking, unstable etc. If we could hear it up here, why not down there. The Yarran deal reeked trouble from the outset - somehow, somewhere, someone dropped the ball - free kick Carlton - and didn't they give it to us!
Click to expand...

I remember at the time i thought it was not a bad deal apart from SoS bing a F witt and trying to be the hero
We never heard a thing here and i am member of 3 internet forum's like BF / PRE / OET etc and nothing was ever posted or mentioned in any Yarran threads about any issue's with drugs but only he needed a change
 
_RT_ said:
Say we do bring Mitchell in, who does he replace in our centre square set up?

Martin
Prestia
Cotchin
Bolton
Edwards
Graham

Secondly given he replaces one of them, where do they now line up in the 22?

Thirdly, what happens to the development of RCD Dow Ross & Martyn plus picks 7 & 15 in terms of them getting opportunity in the senior side?

Finally, what happens when Mitchell coming in means that the likes of RCD or Dow decide that because they aren't getting opportunities they decide to request trades next year? Unlike a 200cm 100kg ruck/forward who draws a bit of a premium at the trade table, unproven midfielders aren't going to get us a good deal when they leave, see Corey Ellis.

This is why I mentioned about looking at the bigger picture rather than people getting seduced by the short term gain bringing in Mitchell can give us.

I recall this time in 2016 when we were coming off a year worse than this one and people were suggesting we were never going to win a flag with this group and should begin rebuilding. Fast forward 12 months and we'd win the flag as it clicked due to unproven types stepping up, plus the smart recruiting of Prestia Nankervis and Caddy, who all had 7+ years left in their careers, coming in and filling big gaps in our line up.

IMO Mitchell doesn't fill a gap in our line up, as we don't have a game plan that revolves around midfielders racking up big possession numbers. We've been beating teams through a different weight of numbers. We'd win the turnover battle, we'd win the time in forward half battle, we'd win the intercept battle and then counter attack before teams could get back and stop us by moving the ball forwards in any way necessary. Mitchell is a stat padder once the ball leaves the centre square with his around the back handballs and little 1-2s. That was how Cotchin played at the beginning of the 2010s and he was criticised for not having big impacts on games despite getting big possession numbers. As soon as that changed and he became a player who had big impact with fewer touches we went from a finals contender to a premiership contender and winner.

So for mine Mitchell is a hard pass as I think we'll gain more over the long term from the 5 kids we take in the draft this year.
Click to expand...
Did you watch us this year??
Got absolutely smashed out of the middle and that is what Mitchell does best.
Stop talking dribble.
 
_RT_ said:
Say we do bring Mitchell in, who does he replace in our centre square set up?

Martin
Prestia
Cotchin
Bolton
Edwards
Graham

Secondly given he replaces one of them, where do they now line up in the 22?

Thirdly, what happens to the development of RCD Dow Ross & Martyn plus picks 7 & 15 in terms of them getting opportunity in the senior side?

Finally, what happens when Mitchell coming in means that the likes of RCD or Dow decide that because they aren't getting opportunities they decide to request trades next year? Unlike a 200cm 100kg ruck/forward who draws a bit of a premium at the trade table, unproven midfielders aren't going to get us a good deal when they leave, see Corey Ellis.

This is why I mentioned about looking at the bigger picture rather than people getting seduced by the short term gain bringing in Mitchell can give us.

I recall this time in 2016 when we were coming off a year worse than this one and people were suggesting we were never going to win a flag with this group and should begin rebuilding. Fast forward 12 months and we'd win the flag as it clicked due to unproven types stepping up, plus the smart recruiting of Prestia Nankervis and Caddy, who all had 7+ years left in their careers, coming in and filling big gaps in our line up.

IMO Mitchell doesn't fill a gap in our line up, as we don't have a game plan that revolves around midfielders racking up big possession numbers. We've been beating teams through a different weight of numbers. We'd win the turnover battle, we'd win the time in forward half battle, we'd win the intercept battle and then counter attack before teams could get back and stop us by moving the ball forwards in any way necessary. Mitchell is a stat padder once the ball leaves the centre square with his around the back handballs and little 1-2s. That was how Cotchin played at the beginning of the 2010s and he was criticised for not having big impacts on games despite getting big possession numbers. As soon as that changed and he became a player who had big impact with fewer touches we went from a finals contender to a premiership contender and winner.

So for mine Mitchell is a hard pass as I think we'll gain more over the long term from the 5 kids we take in the draft this year.
Click to expand...

He’d supersede all of them as a clearance player. If ,and I’d agree it won’t happen but saying it did, we’d build our stoppages around him. It’s irrelevant what we do with the others, best 22 will play.

As for the kids. I wouldn’t worry, if they are any good they will earn a spot. No point making list decisions around kids who may never make it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Sol23 said:
Did you watch us this year??
Got absolutely smashed out of the middle and that is what Mitchell does best.
Stop talking dribble.
Click to expand...
How do you suggest Richmond pay for Mitchell and if he is this clearance beast, why are no clubs in talks with him?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Remove this Banner Ad

Similar threads

_RT_
  • Locked
  • Poll
List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency Part 10
295 296 297 298 299
Replies
7K
Views
243K
_RT_
_RT_
_RT_
  • Poll
List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency - Fred 11
273 274 275 276 277
Replies
7K
Views
210K
docko911
D
Truetiger
  • Locked
List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 7
447 448 449 450 451
Replies
11K
Views
432K
_RT_
_RT_
Truetiger
  • Locked
List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 8
223 224 225 226 227
Replies
6K
Views
214K
Spanish_Fly
Spanish_Fly
_RT_
  • Locked
  • Poll
List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency Part 9
254 255 256 257 258
Replies
6K
Views
217K
richoatthedisco
richoatthedisco
Lsta062
List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Period/Draft News
Replies
2
Views
547
Lsta062
Lsta062
_RT_
  • Locked
  • Poll
List Mgmt. 2024 Draft - Post Trade Period Edition
353 354 355 356 357
Replies
9K
Views
299K
_RT_
_RT_

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top