List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 5

[Marcel Proust]

Agree pickett is just not much chop. Solid depth

Need two wingers potentially unless macca can step up

 

[tunksy]

Need two wingers potentially unless macca can step up

Get one or draft one then. If he plays 22 games he's either improved 100% or we have injuries again. His best game was his first. Gap between his best and worst is huge

 

[Tigers Time]

It's not about trying to beat the system, it's about doing what has proven successful for us in the lead up to the 3 premierships and doing it again. We built our team from the ground up starting from before Hardwick arrived and we took advantage of some poor years at the start of that process to get in some very good players, but the core of our team wasn't really built on top picks.

Vlastuin pick 9
Grimes PSD
Prestia pick 9
Martin pick 3
B.Ellis pick 15
Grigg pick 19
Baker rookie
Riewoldt pick 13
Cotchin pick 2
Edwards pick 26
Castagna R2 rookie
Astbury pick 35
Houli pick 42
Short R1 rookie
Rioli pick 15
Rance pick 18
Lynch pick 11
Soldo R4 rookie
Balta pick 25
Caddy pick 7
Lambert R3 rookie
Nankervis pikc 35
Bolton pick 29
McIntosh pick 31
Graham pick 53
Broad pick 67
Butler pick 67
Pickett MSD

We've had 2 top 5 picks in our premiership line ups, with most of our picks coming in the mid first round or later in the draft.

The key isn't having a host of top picks, the key is putting together a group, through smart trading and nailing the draft, so that it hits its peak at the same time and is able to maximise it's potential.

Very rarely do you you hit and go on a run like us & Hawthorn did, and to a lesser extent Geelong, but more times than not you fall short like the Pies Swans Eagles Dogs Fremantle & Saints have done.

As I said above we know what builds a dynasty and it wasn't taking shortcuts it was nailing the draft year after year and then when we were close nailing the trade/free agency period to get us over the hump. Where we're different from Hawthorn & Geelong, is that we've been able to continually hit the draft and add more talent for the next generation to get a good foundation, now is not the time to take a short cut to chase a possible 4th flag with aging players. Now is the time to nail the draft to secure a future and if we're fortunate enough pinch a 4th flag with those that got us there in the first place.

If it fails then as you said we go to the draft again next year or we can target a Green/Taranto type who can come in and give us 7+ years alongside our already established young players.

I agree. It’s why I’m more than happy to trade for a mid but only if that mid is <25 so that they help in the now as well as be there to form the next gen with Bolton, Balta, Baker, Graham, Soldo ect.

It’s also why I’m really hopeful some of the recently drafted guys can make the step up.

It’s why getting this draft right is so important imo.

These are the guys we need to start building on



Black are gone
Red should be gone imo
Yellow are out of contract still

 

[BruceTempany14]

Agree pickett is just not much chop. Solid depth

Pickett is always in my 22 . George no . Aarts no .
Pickett’s physical approach alone makes him worth it .
Every great side has that one player who makes opponents wonder . With stack and Pickett we’ve got 2 .



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[Noidnadroj]

Well done, tug. You've summed up in four lines what I've spent 48 posts trying to point out.

Ok, let’s say we get Mitchell for pick-26. And Hawks agree to pay $250k of his $800k salary for 2-seasons. Then let’s say we get bundled out in a PF or miss the finals again as we have another shocker like 2021.

What happens in 2-years when Mitchell comes out of contract? And we need to pay Balta, and Bolton and Baker and Stack etc…. Mitchell is 30yo. We can’t pay him $300k. And does his salary cost us a free agent or a big trade like Green, Lukocious or Ben King? We can’t trade him out. He can’t play anywhere else except midfield, but we are trying to develop a bunch of young mids. So he plays instead of Ross / Dow / Martyn…. one of our new draftees etc…..

If we had another 4-5 years in the ‘window’ I’d take the plunge. But we have 1-year at best. We have to be honest in saying we are not contending in 2023-25 as we lose over that time Edwards, Grimes, Cotchin, Riewoldt, Prestia, Lynch, Martin, Lambert and a few others ….

But then 2026 onwards we will have hopefully a great core of players drafted this year and next. Add to that a free agent and a trade, and we will hopefully be back in contention quickly. The last thing we want is a Hawks / Lions type falling off the cliff and a 10-15 year climb back. Even Geelong looked completely cooked 2023 onwards for a decade barring a miracle.



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[Calcium Man]

It's not about trying to beat the system, it's about doing what has proven successful for us in the lead up to the 3 premierships and doing it again. We built our team from the ground up starting from before Hardwick arrived and we took advantage of some poor years at the start of that process to get in some very good players, but the core of our team wasn't really built on top picks.

Vlastuin pick 9
Grimes PSD
Prestia pick 9
Martin pick 3
B.Ellis pick 15
Grigg pick 19
Baker rookie
Riewoldt pick 13
Cotchin pick 2
Edwards pick 26
Castagna R2 rookie
Astbury pick 35
Houli pick 42
Short R1 rookie
Rioli pick 15
Rance pick 18
Lynch pick 11
Soldo R4 rookie
Balta pick 25
Caddy pick 7
Lambert R3 rookie
Nankervis pikc 35
Bolton pick 29
McIntosh pick 31
Graham pick 53
Broad pick 67
Butler pick 67
Pickett MSD

I know what we’ve done, I laid it out in my post. You’ve just proved it, nail a bunch of drafts close together and wait 7-10 years and add your side pieces.

We've had 2 top 5 picks in our premiership line ups, with most of our picks coming in the mid first round or later in the draft.

Again exactly what I said, every premiership side has a bunch of top 5 picks who are hugely important.

cotchin our captain and cultural heart and Dusty the Goat. They are literally the two most important players in our dynasty.

Hawks had Hodge their captain and cultural heart, Buddy the best forward for 25 years and roughy a great forward.

melbourne have Oliver and Petracca their 2 most important midfielders.

like I said every premiership team has a few top 5 picks that are integral to winning a flag or 3.

The key isn't having a host of top picks, the key is putting together a group, through smart trading and nailing the draft, so that it hits its peak at the same time and is able to maximise it's potential.

Very rarely do you you hit and go on a run like us & Hawthorn did, and to a lesser extent Geelong, but more times than not you fall short like the Pies Swans Eagles Dogs Fremantle & Saints have done.

Again this is basically what I said, the only difference is you saying you don’t need a host of top picks. 100% you do, every premiership team since about 2007 has a bunch of high picks or cheap father sons that are their key players.

As I said above we know what builds a dynasty and it wasn't taking shortcuts it was nailing the draft year after year and then when we were close nailing the trade/free agency period to get us over the hump. Where we're different from Hawthorn & Geelong, is that we've been able to continually hit the draft and add more talent for the next generation to get a good foundation, now is not the time to take a short cut to chase a possible 4th flag with aging players. Now is the time to nail the draft to secure a future and if we're fortunate enough pinch a 4th flag with those that got us there in the first place.

mate we’re in this to win premierships. Theyre ****ing hard to win and we are not winning another for awhile once this group retires. They deserve every chance to win a fourth, and we should provide them with that chance.

If it fails then as you said we go to the draft again next year or we can target a Green/Taranto type who can come in and give us 7+ years alongside our already established young players.

If there is no concern over failing why would you sell us short in an attempt to win a premiership? that’s what this is all about.

 

[tigers12]

Grimes. Tarrant. Vlastuin.
Short. Broad. DRioli.
Pickett. Mitchell. Stack.
Lambert. Lynch. Graham.
Martin. Riewoldt. Baker.
Soldo. Edwards. Prestia.
Cotchin. Balta. Nankervis. Bolton.
+Rcd.

I dont think short is in best 22 he was horrible last season and should have been on the trade table maybe could have gotten us a first rounder

 

[prodigy]

Touk Miller

11

Touk Miller

Age

28

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.7

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

12.3

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

5.4

5star

CL

4.2

5star

D

22.0

5star

K

11.4

4star

HB

10.6

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.8

5star

CL

4.1

5star

D

17.8

5star

K

5.8

3star

HB

12.0

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.0

5star

will be a one club player unfortunately.

 

[Mr Magic]

Ok, let’s say we get Mitchell for pick-26. And Hawks agree to pay $250k of his $800k salary for 2-seasons. Then let’s say we get bundled out in a PF or miss the finals again as we have another shocker like 2021.

What happens in 2-years when Mitchell comes out of contract? And we need to pay Balta, and Bolton and Baker and Stack etc…. Mitchell is 30yo. We can’t pay him $300k. And does his salary cost us a free agent or a big trade like Green, Lukocious or Ben King? We can’t trade him out. He can’t play anywhere else except midfield, but we are trying to develop a bunch of young mids. So he plays instead of Ross / Dow / Martyn…. one of our new draftees etc…..

If we had another 4-5 years in the ‘window’ I’d take the plunge. But we have 1-year at best. We have to be honest in saying we are not contending in 2023-25 as we lose over that time Edwards, Grimes, Cotchin, Riewoldt, Prestia, Lynch, Martin, Lambert and a few others ….

But then 2026 onwards we will have hopefully a great core of players drafted this year and next. Add to that a free agent and a trade, and we will hopefully be back in contention quickly. The last thing we want is a Hawks / Lions type falling off the cliff and a 10-15 year climb back. Even Geelong looked completely cooked 2023 onwards for a decade barring a miracle.



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Actually I think we are contending in 2023-2025, more-so than 2022 because Melbourne will get weaker for starters

In 2023-2025 our youngsters and draftees would have developed more.

Martin, Lynch and the better ones might still be going around

 

[caddyshack]

Need two wingers potentially unless macca can step up

I think we'll see Ralphsmith lock down a wing position next season.
He's a good size and can run all day.

 

[Winter_Rose]

Actually I think we are contending in 2023-2025, more-so than 2022 because Melbourne will get weaker for starters

In 2023-2025 our youngsters and draftees would have developed more.

Martin and the better ones might still be going around

Would we have enough top-end talent to challenge in 2023-2025?

I'm anticipating that Cotch, Jack and Titch will have retired or be a shadow of their former selves. Which would leave us with Lynch, Bolton and Martin as our A graders (you could possibly include Grimes (dependent on how he ages) and Balta (depending on development).

 

[Oshka]

Grimes. Tarrant. Vlastuin.
Short. Broad. DRioli.
Pickett. Mitchell. Stack.
Lambert. Lynch. Graham.
Martin. Riewoldt. Baker.
Soldo. Edwards. Prestia.
Cotchin. Balta. Nankervis. Bolton.
+Rcd.

That’s actually a very good side floggo. Top four definitely. Don’t know if we’d stop the Melbourne juggernaut but we’d give it a shake. Glad you’ve dumped Kamdyn and Jason.

 

[Tuckster]

I heard yesterday on SEN that the belief is as of the 2023 season the salary cap will go up by 1mil

 

[beema limapep]

That’s actually a very good side floggo. Top four definitely. Don’t know if we’d stop the Melbourne juggernaut but we’d give it a shake. Glad you’ve dumped Kamdyn and Jason.

Pick 7 an 15 to replace the most injured, for energy and leg speed.

 

[Winter_Rose]

I’d argue that our team was built off top 3 talent. We lost lids before we got our act together but if we take out our pick 2&3 Geelong win 3 more flags. Dusty’s ability to rise in finals is unprecedented, without his efforts we don’t get close to a flag.


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I'd love to know what the consensus is on the idea that No Dusty = No Premierships.

Personally, I think that it is very hard (if not impossible) to determine because we don't know who would have taken Dusty's place in the team or how no Dusty would have changed our gameplay.

What are everyone's thoughts?

 

[Oshka]

Pick 7 an 15 to replace the most injured, for energy and leg speed.

If we keep pick 7 or 15 we aren’t getting Mitchell. If we aren’t getting Mitchell we aren’t doing much next season. Our midfield is mid tier/injury prone.

 

[Joey longshadow]

It is my fervent hope that we don't get Mitchell...we can't afford him . And I mean that in several ways

 

[docko911]

I'd love to know what the consensus is on the idea that No Dusty = No Premierships.

Personally, I think that it is very hard (if not impossible) to determine because we don't know who would have taken Dusty's place in the team or how no Dusty would have changed our gameplay.

What are everyone's thoughts?

Is Dusty the same player without Dimma and Cotch… black mirror that shit

 

[Mr Magic]

Would we have enough top-end talent to challenge in 2023-2025?

I'm anticipating that Cotch, Jack and Titch will have retired or be a shadow of their former selves. Which would leave us with Lynch, Bolton and Martin as our A graders (you could possibly include Grimes (dependent on how he ages) and Balta (depending on development).

Jack might still be going, he will be hardest to replace. Dunno with the others, but some are underestimating the youth and draftees coming through I think as well as additions

 

[Tigers Time]

I dont think short is in best 22 he was horrible last season and should have been on the trade table maybe could have gotten us a first rounder

You just said he was terrible lol how the hell would he have got us a first

 

[Kyusss]

Get one or draft one then. If he plays 22 games he's either improved 100% or we have injuries again. His best game was his first. Gap between his best and worst is huge

5th in our best and fairest in a premiership year


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[Winter_Rose]

Jack might still be going, he will be hardest to replace. Dunno with the others, but some are underestimating the youth and draftees coming through I think as well as additions

I worry that without our top-end veterans we wouldn't have enough talent to challenge beyond 2022.
I acknowledge that we will bring in some quality draftees this off-season, but they will likely take 4+ years to reach their potential. I feel that we are likely to contend in 2022 then again between 2026-2030.

 

[prodigy]

 

[sherrif]

From an outsiders point of view I can see this draft setting you up for a long time to come in cluding next years draft.
I could see you trading pick 38 for St Kilda's future second as they need point for Marcus Windhager who is likely to get a bid in the mid 20's.
Trading 28 and Pick 40 for 23 and a future 3rd rounder at the Bulldogs would also work out for both teams.
Then trade 26 and 15 for 11 and a future second rounder from Essendon with your third going back. That would leave you with 3 second rounders in 2022 which could easily be turned into higher picks with teams who require points for academy or father son selections. That would guarantee at least two first round selections in 2022 as well while you head to this years draft with 7, 11 and 23 as your main selections.
You could trade 23 for Ladhams if there was interest to get him to Richmond.

 

[Bojangles17]

Huh? I said skills..

You can’t possibly think castagna and aarts have better skills than Bobby hill

They’ve performed better at the level than hill has, put up his best game against best of aarts or George , . Hills done fa , I’d much rather Ess Squander tpp on him, he reminds of Leroy Jetta