List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 5

[Mr Unbelievable]

Since 2006 Richmond picks 11-20 v 21-30

This period captures all current players.


Green represents a successful pick or tracking positively for the pick.

Red represents and unsuccessful pick or tracking negatively for the pick.

Yellow represents just not enough to go on yet to make a meaningful assessment.


11-20

Riewoldt 13, Rance 18, Griffiths 19, B Ellis 15, Lennon 12, C Ellis 12, D Rioli 15, Higgins 17, Coleman-Jones 20, Collier-Dawkins 20, Brown 17



First thing here I think is remove Higgins and CCJ from the sample, as we basically traded them out for more or less picks of the same value.



So we are left with 9 selections producing:

Top class(2) - Rance, Riewoldt, both highly decorated players.

Very strong(1) - D Rioli? certainly getting there.

Good players (1) - B Ellis

Failures(3) - Griffiths, Lennon, C Ellis

Undetermined(2) - RCD(not looking great) Brown(too early to tell, some decent signs)

Overall, from 9 selections, probably tracking for 4 failures, 2 good or very strong players, and 2 champions. 1 too early to tell. So not too bad at all.



21-30

Edwards 26, Post 26, Batchelor 30, Elton 26, Bolton 29, Balta 25, Dow 21, Sonsie 28, Banks 29, Clarke 30



Top Class(2) - Bolton and Balta are both tracking that way but Balta we will get a better idea after next year.

Very Strong(1) - Edwards

Good players(0)

Failures - Post, Batchelor, Elton

Undetermined - Dow(tracking just ok, looking a little shaky) Sonsie(tracking very well) Banks, Clarke(too early to tell but both tracking ok)

Overall, from 10 selections, tracking for 4 failures and 4 successes, 2 of the successes are tracking very strongly one is too early to be too confident. And another 2 we cannot make a meaningful judgement on yet.


So I think what you are saying holds up ok regarding the value of these picks to us based on our track record. But they are quite small samples and if your recruiters are any good(ours are) then logically say a pick 15 would have to be worth more than a pick 25. At 15 you can still take the same guy you take at 25 but you also have 9 other choices from the players other clubs take at 16-24.

Even from our selections, we need to ask ourselves whether we prefer

Rance Riewoldt B Ellis D Rioli and Brown from 9 selections, or

Bolton, Balta, Edwards, Sonsie, Banks, Clarke from 10 selections.

What a choice to have to make. Certainly you can see why the club might have traded pick 15(Zac Bailey) for picks 20(CCJ) and 25(Balta) in the 2017 draft, you would back us to do better from 2 picks in the 20’s than 1 pick in the teens.

As for Graham, I wouldn’t be too keen on seeing him go for below about the value of pick 20 unless there is some sort of necessary salary dumping element to it.

Fantastic work

 

[a_fighting_fury]

what did you do to that image ? the traditional Richmond yellow looks amazing

I simply Googled “Image of Jack the dual flag-winner, most prolific tiger hunter, wears yellow and black and bleeds yellow and black. Jack Graham that is.” , and that image popped up.

 

[Mr Unbelievable]

The fridge is still running with us

Get him to 100 games

 

[fargothegreat]

Im still wary of Adelaide though...

Their list boss said yesterday that apart from Rankine they wouldn't be doing much, so hopefully that is true.

 

[_RT_]

Said last night that we'd like to keep Jack but that he should seriously look at what Port has to offer and if it's much better than what he could get with us he should take the deal and set himself up. The fact that Jack has knocked back a move to Port, it would suggest that Port we're offering a deal too good to refuse, which probably ties in with them only looking at offering up pick 27 for the move. You're not offering up a deal that is worthy of a late first round pick or a deal where we trade Jack and one of our second round picks to get their pick 8.

So now Jack remains(pending late interest by Adelaide) which only further strengthens our midfield moving forward. Heading into 2023 the midfield will be (age in bracktes):

Prestia (30)
Taranto (25)
Hopper (26)
Bolton (24)
Martin (31)
Cotchin (33)
Graham (25)
Ross (22)
Baker (25)
Short (27)
Sonsie (20)
Dow (21)
RCD* (23)

That is a very deep and strong looking midifield group that not only sets up for a tilt over the next 1-2 seasons, but has also set us up for when Martin Cotchin & Prestia are no longer part of the midfield from 2025 where the midfield group will still hopefully be built around a core of:

Taranto
Hopper
Bolton
Graham
Ross
Baker
Sonsie
Dow
RCD*

* - subject to still being listed

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Apparently had Lunch with Marshall & Georgiadis

Showed them his premiership medals and invited them to Punt Road for photo's with the cups

 

[fargothegreat]

With Graham staying, we're actually very tight for list spots this year. I think we may only take a couple of picks in the National Draft.

If you assume:

• Aarts, Martyn and RCD will be delisted along with the already retired Lambert, Edwards, Caddy and Parker
• Pickett will be elevated to senior list
• Taranto and Hopper come in as planned

That leaves us with only two free senior list spots for the draft, or one if we elevate Stack (which we have to if we want to keep him unless we delist and rerookie him).

We may also look to move someone like Dow, Mansell or even George to the rookie list to free up another senior spot.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

With Graham staying, we're actually very tight for list spots this year. I think we may only take a couple of picks in the National Draft.

If you assume:

• Aarts, Martyn and RCD will be delisted along with the already retired Lambert, Edwards, Caddy and Parker
• Pickett will be elevated to senior list
• Taranto and Hopper come in as planned

That leaves us with only two free senior list spots for the draft, or one if we elevate Stack (which we have to if we want to keep him unless we delist and rerookie him).

We may also look to move someone like Dow, Mansell or even George to the rookie list to free up another senior spot.

George & Rcd are he players needed to be moved to the Rookie list if not traded or in RCD case delisted
stack is the interesting one. Im getting a feel its line ball and going o depend on what hes been doing between season end and last delisting period

 

[fargothegreat]

George & Rcd are he players needed to be moved to the Rookie list if not traded or in RCD case delisted
stack is the interesting one. Im getting a feel its line ball and going o depend on what hes been doing between season end and last delisting period

I don't think we'll reward him with elevation. I reckon if another club wants him they'll get him, otherwise we'll pop him back on the rookie list and give him another year.

 

[ForeverHardcore]

Great news on Fridge
Still think his best footy will come when Cotch and Dion retire

He’ll be a much more important player then. Atm he’ll do anything for the team but eventually he’ll have to get more midfield time and take over that Cotch bully role!
Good stuff Fridge real Richmond man

 

[Marcel Proust]

Jack Graham is Brandon Ellis v2.0 very good role player who can be relied upon every week to do what is asked of him, but isn't necessarily a star of the game. Just like Ellis, when he left us for the offer too good to refuse from the Suns, Graham should take the opportunity to set himself up for the future and cash in by signing a a long term deal with Port or Adelaide if offered one.

No doubt we'd like to keep him, much the same way we wanted to keep Ellis, but it will be on our terms and if he can't remain in the 22, with the addition of Hopper & Taranto, plus the likes of Short Baker Ross & Sonsie all being capable of having more impact offensively, the odds are he might struggle to stay in the 22 and won't get the same sort of deal that he could possible sign now.

I don't reckon we did want to keep Ellis.

Pickett and McIntosh were better

Mcasey if from the crows. Need to satisfy some sort of 3 way trade then.

Dud stay away.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Lol GJTI telling port to fo

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Great news on Fridge
Still think his best footy will come when Cotch and Dion retire

He’ll be a much more important player then. Atm he’ll do anything for the team but eventually he’ll have to get more midfield time and take over that Cotch bully role!
Good stuff Fridge real Richmond man

When you think of the whole JG thing, Unless it was a pick too good to refuse we really had nothing to gain from losing him apart from his salary
His value will only increase when he gets to free agency and at worst we get a similar pick if he decides to leave.

Jack has been played as a defensive mid since arriving at the club but with Tarantino & Whopper coming into the club we will become a more aggressive team and believe JG will play a similar role to what Lambert was doing with his running capacity.

We have more experienced depth whilst in our window and going for another premiership , We need 30 players to win a flag and until players lie Sonsie , Banks , Brown , Clarke , Dow develop into the players we hope they become we still need JG

Good result

 

[captain blood 17]

Im waiting for him to say we should trade Graham now he wants to stay. I think that’s the next step

You know it. We just missed a critical trade etc etc…..

 

[ForeverHardcore]

When you think of the whole JG thing, Unless it was a pick too good to refuse we really had nothing to gain from losing him apart from his salary
His value will only increase when he gets to free agency and at worst we get a similar pick if he decides to leave.

Jack has been played as a defensive mid since arriving at the club but with Tarantino & Whopper coming into the club we will become a more aggressive team and believe JG will play a similar role to what Lambert was doing with his running capacity.

We have more experienced depth whilst in our window and going for another premiership , We need 30 players to win a flag and until players lie Sonsie , Banks , Brown , Clarke , Dow develop into the players we hope they become we still need JG

Good result

Great result
We would’ve got a decent pick if he chose to leave regardless.
But waiting for free agency is best for he and the club

Will get 2 more cracks at a flag and then get a chance to take over a bigger role when Cotch/Dion finish up

If he chooses to leave then we’ll get a better pick then we would’ve got this year more likely then not

I think the Lambert role was something only Lambert could play. We need to go back to 2017 and build a game style suited to the cattle we have. Geelong did it pre season last year and won a premiership. Catering new players to roles that former players played won’t work.

We’re building a new team and need to move on from former stars in Houli/Lambert/Rance/Edwards/Ellis/Grigg/Astbury/Caddy who all were integral to our success and premierships. The guys who are playing in those positions now cannot replicate what those other players did, so we need to build a brand that suits what we have now!

Think far too much is read into the Lambert role on here. He was a glue guy and can’t be replaced, Graham is a different player and has his own strengths. It’s a tough role

 

[Charlie Pannam]

We are going to have a crackin midfield next year.
Imagine if Dusty gets the hunger back, and meatball stays healthy!!!!

 

[fargothegreat]

Mcasey if from the crows. Need to satisfy some sort of 3 way trade then.

McAsey is the type of key defender we're missing. That taller lockdown defender who can man the resting ruckman.

Not sure if he's any good though.

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

Why the **** is the rookie list still a thing? It made some sense back in the day but makes zero sense now.

****ing deadbeats work at the AFL.

 

[prodigy]

IF the club is contemplating making a play for McAsey, and that's a big IF, I'm all for it.
I've never seen the kid play, but based on him being a KPP and in the event that Jack or Big Sexy go down with injury we need more options other than Samson Ryan and Jacob Bauer.

I dont suspect he will cost anything substantial.
Not much downside to the move if im being honest.
I know some have said he is a spud, but I'd back in our program to get the best out of him.

 

[juss]

2016​	Stats for Season​	2022​
14​	Games​	16​
12.3​	Kicks​	13.8​
13.6​	Handballs​	11.7​
25.9​	Disposals​	25.5​
2.4​	Marks​	3.6​
0.3​	Goals​	0.4​
0.1​	Behinds​	0.4​
5.4​	Tackles​	4.8​
0​	Hitouts​	0​
3.4​	Inside 50s​	3.9​
0.4​	Goal Assists​	0.6​
1.2​	Frees For​	1.7​
1.0​	Frees Against​	1.2​
10.5​	Contested Possessions​	9.7​
15.6​	Uncontested Possessions​	14.8​
17.2​	Effective Disposals​	17.6​
66.4%​	Disposal Efficiency %​	69%​
3.7​	Clangers​	4.6​
0.1​	Contested Marks​	0.3​
0.1​	Marks Inside 50​	0.3​
4.3​	Clearances​	3.8​
2.4​	Rebound 50s​	1.9​
1.1​	One Percenters​	0.8​
0.4​	Bounces​	0.1​
78.7​	Time On Ground %​	84.2​
1.4​	Centre Clearances​	1.2​
2.9​	Stoppage Clearances​	2.5​
6.2​	Score Involvements​	4.9​
396.6​	Metres Gained​	342.8​
4.3​	Turnovers​	4.9​
2.6​	Intercepts​	2.3​
0.5​	Tackles Inside 50​	0.4​
92.9​	AFL Fantasy Score​	95.5​
93.5​	Supercoach Score​	91.4​

Prestia the year before joining us v Timmy T the year before joining us.


Looks ok to me

Tarantos a good player, no issues with that chase.

Hopper is the one I'm not 100% sure we needed to chase as well on that long of a deal. Feel he might be slightly overrated for the cost.

 

[juss]

Why the * is the rookie list still a thing? It made some sense back in the day but makes zero sense now.

******* deadbeats work at the AFL.

Does seem pointless. Just add the spots to the mainlist, much simpler.

 

[Marcel Proust]

McAsey is the type of key defender we're missing. That taller lockdown defender who can man the resting ruckman.

Not sure if he's any good though.

I hear he's not

 

[bc27]

The only reason we’d be looking at a player like Mcasey is if the club was concerned Noah Balta

21

Noah Balta

Age

25

Ht

194cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.7

3star

HB

3.1

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.9

4star

MG

236.3

4star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

5.3

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.3

1star

MG

233.0

4star

D

7.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

217.4

4star

will look elsewhere at the end of next year.

 

[Wacky Tiger]

McAsey is the type of key defender we're missing. That taller lockdown defender who can man the resting ruckman.

Not sure if he's any good though.

So hes a poor mans Ben Miller?

Rather stick with Ben

 

[Marcel Proust]

Great result
We would’ve got a decent pick if he chose to leave regardless.
But waiting for free agency is best for he and the club

Will get 2 more cracks at a flag and then get a chance to take over a bigger role when Cotch/Dion finish up

If he chooses to leave then we’ll get a better pick then we would’ve got this year more likely then not

I think the Lambert role was something only Lambert could play. We need to go back to 2017 and build a game style suited to the cattle we have. Geelong did it pre season last year and won a premiership. Catering new players to roles that former players played won’t work.

We’re building a new team and need to move on from former stars in Houli/Lambert/Rance/Edwards/Ellis/Grigg/Astbury/Caddy who all were integral to our success and premierships. The guys who are playing in those positions now cannot replicate what those other players did, so we need to build a brand that suits what we have now!

Think far too much is read into the Lambert role on here. He was a glue guy and can’t be replaced, Graham is a different player and has his own strengths. It’s a tough role

Not only the key players like houli. Rance. Astbury. Edwards.

Also missing the depth who's walked; chol. Higgins. Markov. Ccj etc.

Major shake up