Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Cap]

Not sure if this is in the rules



But pretty catchy song

 

[Dirty Bird]

you have to be trolling. I love how you now constantly run with this word after claiming Putin’s Russia isn’t imperialistic

Your hatred for America blinds you. There is more than one bad guy out there.

No it’s your nonsensical justifications for this war that I struggle to listen to.

Long term hard to say, but the things Prigozhin was saying about ending the "SMO", yeah, I reckon short-term he'd be better for the Russians and definitely the Ukrainians too.

What do you think? Socialist end to the war, or no end to the war?

I don't challenge that Prigozhin was not happy with strategy and particularly MoD leadership, that is true...but it is also true that he said the following, which does not sound to me like the words of someone advocating to continue the bullshit invasion


That ^ is not a call to arms.

It's possible for him to disagree with war strategy, while also being against the whole premise of the war.

Dafuq?

I oppose war. I don't oppose capitalism.

Get a grip.

You only want the war to end if it ends in world-wide socialist revolution. Please answer: if Russia were to withdraw, the war ended, but you didn't get your Socialist revolution, would you be happy that the war ended?

I think, if you look though all of history, most wars have been fought by non capitalistic countries, making nonsense of your claim. I'm not sure anyone, other than you, believe HTS are US proxies, FFS, Ahmed al-Sharaa has a $10 million bounty on his head.

7 straight posts replying to someone on my ignore list. Dont know whether to unignore to read, or just lead it

 

[Baldur]

Russian state tv says that the new government in Syria is obligated to honor the treaty that Russia had with the old government. LOL

 

[IlovethePies]

Quite ironic that Russia is the largest country by area in the world and they still want to steal other countries land.

View attachment 2186896

You're looking in the wrong dictionary.

Imperialism has a historical and scientific meaning - that is the meaning I am using. Imperialism is the highest and final stage of capitalism. It developed during the 1890's and exploded in WW1.

The imperialist powers, according to this Marxist (ie scientific ) definition, were: the US, Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Italy ie all the nations which were engaged in a conflict between each other over colonies and spheres of influence.

China and Russia are therefore not imperialist powers, when the term is used scientifically, and not in a populist, everyday manner.

 

[Baldur]

You're looking in the wrong dictionary.

Imperialism has a historical and scientific meaning - that is the meaning I am using. Imperialism is the highest and final stage of capitalism. It developed during the 1890's and exploded in WW1.

The imperialist powers, according to this Marxist (ie scientific ) definition, were: the US, Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Italy ie all the nations which were engaged in a conflict between each other over colonies and spheres of influence.

China and Russia are therefore not imperialist powers, when the term is used scientifically, and not in a populist, everyday manner.

Be careful Humpty that wall is tall and you are master of nothing but your fantasy world.

 

[sdfc]

You're looking in the wrong dictionary.

Imperialism has a historical and scientific meaning - that is the meaning I am using. Imperialism is the highest and final stage of capitalism. It developed during the 1890's and exploded in WW1.

The imperialist powers, according to this Marxist (ie scientific ) definition, were: the US, Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Italy ie all the nations which were engaged in a conflict between each other over colonies and spheres of influence.

China and Russia are therefore not imperialist powers, when the term is used scientifically, and not in a populist, everyday manner.

Marx and Lenin don't determine what imperialism is, actions do. Russia and China are both imperialist powers and have been for a long time.

 

[IlovethePies]

^Only fantasy I read here results from the ignorance of those who maintain that Russia is "imperialist".

The quote you gave from Humpty Dumpty refers to those like you who have no clue of the genuine scientific definition of imperialism, and keep attributing it without rhyme or reason to whatever country fits the propaganda fantasy world you are currently inhabiting.

 

[IlovethePies]

Marx and Lenin don't determine what imperialism is, actions do. Russia and China are both imperialist powers and have been for a long time.

This is nonsense, equivalent to saying that Einstein does not determine how relativity works.


Einstein described, using scientific language, the laws of relativity. These laws worked independently of him discovering them, because they were objective reality. Morevoer, Einstein was not some lone individual who discovered relativity all by himself: he based himself on all the previous advances in scientific knowledge.

Marx did not describe imperialism, he did not live in the era of imperialism.

It was Lenin, whose great work: "Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism" explained scientifically the dynamics of imperialism. Imperialism is not defined by the actions of this or that country: it is the result of the history of mankind. Like Einstein, Lenin based himself on all the advances of human knowledge in philosophy, social science, economics and political theory.

 

[sdfc]

This is nonsense, equivalent to saying that Einstein does not determine how relativity works.


Einstein described, using scientific language, the laws of relativity. These laws worked independently of him discovering them, because they were objective reality. Morevoer, Einstein was not some lone individual who discovered relativity all by himself: he based himself on all the previous advances in scientific knowledge.

Physics isn't a social science.

Marx did not describe imperialism, he did not live in the era of imperialism.

Marx absolutely lived in an era of imperialism. He very much wrote about the capitalist search for profit, foreign investment and the exploitation of foreign workers.

It was Lenin, whose great work: "Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism" explained scientifically the dynamics of imperialism. Imperialism is not defined by the actions of this or that country: it is the result of the history of mankind. Like Einstein, Lenin based himself on all the advances of human knowledge in philosophy, social science, economics and political theory.

Imperialism, in the scientific sense, does not simply mean territorial expansion. It denotes the domination of world economy by finance capital, and historically it was US, British, French, German, and to a lesser extent that of Japan and Italy. It developed during the 1880's to the early 1900's, and in 1914 led to WW1. It was the domination of finance capital that drove these nations to world war as the tried to seize markets, raw materials, colonies, cheap labour and spheres of interests against each other.

Lenin was just narrowly defining imperialism to suit his agenda. Imperialism predates capitalism by several thousand years.

Russia and China, far from being imperialist, were the targets of imperialism historically.

This is just denying history. How do you think China and Russia got so big?

 

[IlovethePies]

Physics isn't a social science.

Marx absolutely lived in an era of imperialism. He very much wrote about the capitalist search for profit, foreign investment and the exploitation of foreign workers.

Lenin was just narrowly defining imperialism to suit his agenda. Imperialism predates capitalism by several thousand years.

This is just denying history. How do you think China and Russia got so big?

This is wrong on almost every count.
The only correct statement is that physics isn't a social science. But that is irrelevant anyway, because Marxism is the science of the historical development of society.
Can't answer why all these points are wrong, because it would mean a new thread.

 

[Baldur]

This is nonsense, equivalent to saying that Einstein does not determine how relativity works.


Einstein described, using scientific language, the laws of relativity. These laws worked independently of him discovering them, because they were objective reality. Morevoer, Einstein was not some lone individual who discovered relativity all by himself: he based himself on all the previous advances in scientific knowledge.

Marx did not describe imperialism, he did not live in the era of imperialism.

It was Lenin, whose great work: "Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism" explained scientifically the dynamics of imperialism. Imperialism is not defined by the actions of this or that country: it is the result of the history of mankind. Like Einstein, Lenin based himself on all the advances of human knowledge in philosophy, social science, economics and political theory.

You have no idea what science is, rule number one is that science must be falsifiable. But Marxism is not falsifiable, it is a belief and you are are cultist. Your belief in your silly religion is not falsifiable. Your cult tries to redefine words to mean something they do not mean. But Humpty fell and broke apart when the wall fell & all the worlds fools cannot put the cult back together again.

 

[IlovethePies]

You have no idea what science is, rule number one is that science must be falsifiable. But Marxism is not falsifiable, it is a belief and you are are cultist. Your belief in your silly religion is not falsifiable. Your cult tries to redefine words to mean something they do not mean. But Humpty fell and broke apart when the wall fell & all the worlds fools cannot put the cult back together again.

the paragraph above exhibits extreme ignorance and you are advised not to proceed any further for your own safety.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

No electricity in Odessa?

The server for my dodgy box is in Odessa and its working perfectly fine

 

[swingdog]

Marx absolutely lived in an era of imperialism. He very much wrote about the capitalist search for profit, foreign investment and the exploitation of foreign workers.
?

Yeah, I laughed at that one too. Someone who has read theory not history.

 

[Zidane98]

Putin in 2002

 

[GhostofJimJess]

7 straight posts replying to someone on my ignore list. Dont know whether to unignore to read, or just lead it

Yep, ignore is definitely your friend when it comes to repeat offender imbeciles who won't budge on their deluded thinking despite countless refutations. I reckon I've got half a dozen posters on ignore nowadays - didn't have a single one for my first 15 or so years on this site.

I'm sure someone will inform us on the very off chance we miss something worthwhile.

 

[Zidane98]

Guess who Russia is asking assistance from with Syria withdrawal



Big bad NATO member Turkey.

Absolutely embarrassment for vatniks selling the NATO Ukraine falsehood.

 

[Zidane98]

How long until Putin requests NATO membership for protecting from Ukraine?

 

[Zidane98]

Medvedev: Ukraine faces a choice of being with Russia or disappearing forever.

But I digress as I hear that Russia is not imperialist at all according to some.

 

[jatz14]

Quite ironic that Russia is the largest country by area in the world and they still want to steal other countries land.

View attachment 2186896

No, your just showing your a capatilist lackey by using an internationally accepted definition of imperialism.

The correct definition for all right thinking individuals is
Imperialist = America.



On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[wannabejack]

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Zidane98]

A Ukraine joining NATO guide for vatniks to read.