Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[Zidane98]

why dont you ask a different question like..... who has a vested interest in the war to keep going?

Putin. He knows Ukraine joins NATO when the war ends. This makes his goal of absorbing Ukraine into a new Russian empire USSR 2.0 lite impossible. Russian economy is now geared for war.

The only party that wants this war to continue is Putin. The war ends tomorrow if Putin withdraws from Ukraine completely.

 

[Zidane98]

This would be about the 4344664th threat he has made.

They go to junk mail these days in the inboxes of western leaders.

 

[Baldur]

why dont you ask a different question like..... who has a vested interest in the war to keep going?

Another Tankie saying it’s all the fault of the evil imperialist yankee industrial military complex.

Now this might be a reasonable explanation as to why Biden only gives just enough to keep the war going but not allow Ukraine to win, if he was that smart, he’s not, and not clearly scared of Russia losing.

Most times the simple answer is the correct answer, Occam's razor. But some people must invent conspiracy theories.

 

[Jello_B]

Putin would know that Russia isn’t going to be attacked by NATO.
He doesn’t want the US having access to and controlling Ukraine. Putin believes that Ukraine falls in the Russian sphere of influence. Not dissimilar if Australia tried to join with China, the US would have a big problem with that. Not sure if they would bomb the crap out of us and invade us, but there would be a severe response.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Russia warned they didnt want Nato close to Moscow, for many years and many times over.

Our neighbours have a dog they keep in their backyard that barks really loudly in the middle of the night, often keeping us awake.

So one night I jumped the fence, grabbed their dog and put it in our backyard, just to see how they'd like it.

 

[wannabejack]

Putin would know that Russia isn’t going to be attacked by NATO.
He doesn’t want the US having access to and controlling Ukraine. Putin believes that Ukraine falls in the Russian sphere of influence. Not dissimilar if Australia tried to join with China, the US would have a big problem with that. Not sure if they would bomb the crap out of us and invade us, but there would be a severe response.

Because of Putin’s war there’s the possibility that the US will have a great deal more access to and control of Ukraine.

Alongside the troop-replacement idea, a second proposal – reported to be the brain child of Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, a Trump ally - suggests that Ukraine could share critical natural resources with Western partners.

Additionally, Ukrainian business leaders are reportedly discussing a proposal to grant Trump “investment screening” powers in Ukraine, allowing him to select who can conduct business in the country

 

[Jello_B]

Because of Putin’s war there’s the possibility that the US will have a great deal more access to and control of Ukraine.

Alongside the troop-replacement idea, a second proposal – reported to be the brain child of Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, a Trump ally - suggests that Ukraine could share critical natural resources with Western partners.

Additionally, Ukrainian business leaders are reportedly discussing a proposal to grant Trump “investment screening” powers in Ukraine, allowing him to select who can conduct business in the country

Yer I didn’t say it was well thought through…
Also Ukraine are offering their in-ground resources to the US to attract their continuing supply of arms.

 

[Visions]

Here’s a novel and completely fanciful notion, how bout everyone stop killing each other (including the arming of Ukraine) and everyone sit in a room and work out an end game that doesn’t destroy everyone.

Russia and the US / NATO need to find a reasonable compromise that has some longevity.

Ukraine remains a neutral country, not a part of NATO, and not Russian either.
Russia and Europe start working together more closely economically, same with US and Russia. Agree some terms that each party can compromise to and maintain. Go through each country in the region and agree terms.

The only people winning right now are arms manufacturers.

In short twould be nice if everyone put their ***** back in their pants for once.

No I don’t, Putin has invaded Ukraine illegally. When do we get to talk about how to move to some sort of future sane relationship?

You realise I don’t want this happening either. And at this stage there is nothing on the table to stop this continuing.

You mean something like this? Worked out well until it didn't. Just like the numerous other negotiations/agreement Russia has been a part of in its entire history.

Your intentions are noble, however in practice all it will do is kick the can down the road until Russia gets exactly what it wants playing the long game.

Minsk agreements - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org