We are still a good chance of making finals

[CNDee]

Genuinely curious – what do you see as a better outcome:

a. Finish 8th prolong the season by one week. Head to Perth to get pumped by Freo or Sydney to get pumped by the Giants, and end up with Pick 14 (while patting ourselves on the back for making finals again); or
b. Finish 13th, and take pick 7 or 8 to the draft (and acknowledge that we're a mile off and need to improve the list/coaching)?

Not having a dig, just wanting to know what benefit you see from option a.

Exposure to younger players. Don’t listen to that s**t media. If we were essendrug they’d be saying we’re still a flag chance with our available players

 

[Topkent]

Exposure to younger players. Don’t listen to that s**t media. If we were essendrug they’d be saying we’re still a flag chance with our available players

What part of this answered what he asked you?

 

[Scythe94]

I'd rather get finals experience into some of the younger players. Plus as a supporter, I want to see the Dees part of the finals. But hey, clearly going against the grain in this place. Do I think we will? No. But I'd rather make it than finish what? 10th? Lol. Yeah wtf do we gain from finishing a few places lower? Draft is a lottery.

That's fair, but surely you agree there's an element of short-term pain for long-term gain?

If we creep into the finals, there's every chance we go into yet another offseason thinking that we're only some luck or a small bit of tinkering away from a flag, which—after not having won a final in three years—isn't the case.

Surely you'd take missing out on an elimination final if it meant the club had to realistically assess where we're at in teams of list and coaching needs?

I get that we've had plenty of years down the bottom, but give me some crap years if it means there's a flag or two in there. Nothing worse than being stuck in the mire of mid-table mediocrity forever (see Essendon, etc).

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Nothing will change if we scrape in for another top 8 finish. Club is run by morons, time to rip off the bandaid before we piss away the potential for the young blokes to achieve anything.

 

[CNDee]

I actually think Lord Nev has been pretty balanced this year in his views, despite coming off as a flog sometimes.

TK and A11 come off as flogs plenty of times, but I do generally agree with their views on the club (Except when TK had that meltdown hating Petracca that he has swept under the carpet real quick ).

CNDee I don't mind positivity but you've been very one eyed with your views on here, and as you're learning this is a pretty balanced board when it comes to views on the club.

Discussions is still way better on here than DL - mods aren't kicking people out for having a differing view.

I know where we’re at. Others need to accept it. I have mates who go for pies/ dons, business owners making big bucks and they still think they can win the flag this year… f**k me. Sometimes our supporter base is too logical.

 

[Topkent]

That's fair, but surely you agree there's an element of short-term pain for long-term gain?

If we creep into the finals, there's every chance we go into yet another offseason thinking that we're only some luck or a small bit of tinkering away from a flag, which—after not having won a final in three years—isn't the case.

Surely you'd take missing out on an elimination final if it meant the club had to realistically assess where we're at in teams of list and coaching needs?

I get that we've had plenty of years down the bottom, but give me some crap years if it means there's a flag or two in there. Nothing worse than being stuck in the mire of mid-table mediocrity forever (see Essendon, etc).

This is exactly the point. For the guys trying to say this is just a 2019 blip on the way to our next flag they ignore we missed finals in 2019 and used that to get Koz and Jackson and Rivers into the team. Scraping into 6th an losing an elimination final doesn't allow that because the club sees it as a success. Seen this too many times the last 2 years.

 

[Topkent]

I know where we’re at. Others need to accept it. I have mates who go for pies/ dons, business owners making big bucks and they still think they can win the flag this year… f**k me. Sometimes our supporter base is too logical.

Mate you just said we were a Petty away from winning the flag last year

 

[Crusty Demon]

Nothing will change if we scrape in for another top 8 finish. Club is run by morons, time to rip off the bandaid before we piss away the potential for the young blokes to achieve anything.

Do you think there'll be a massive difference between scraping into finals or just missing them? Not sure I see wholesale changes because we just missed finals.

 

[Lord Nev]

I get that we've had plenty of years down the bottom, but give me some crap years if it means there's a flag or two in there. Nothing worse than being stuck in the mire of mid-table mediocrity forever (see Essendon, etc).

Where I slightly differ on this is I guess I hold out hope we're aiming to be more like the good clubs, say Geelong or Sydney, and not have to sink down the bottom of the ladder for a couple of years before being able to climb back up. Sustained excellence should be the goal, not some cycle of ups and downs.

Out of any club supporter base that should know high draft picks doesn't equal success, it should be us.

In saying that, there's plenty of areas we need change, so I can understand that some may think that won't come about without it being forced on us.

 

[Topkent]

I don't know why people make this so simplistic unless it's cause it's the only way the can understand, no one is saying for Melbourne to tank for 5 years. Play the kids to finish the year and finish where we finish, change the ****ing game style to be more in line with how footys played now and get away from this boring contest defence shit. If that gets us to 8th next year but we are entertaining to watch then I'm fine with that. Playing a boring as **** 60-62 game style playing vets and going backwards isn't sustained success it's sustained insanity

 

[CNDee]

Where I slightly differ on this is I guess I hold out hope we're aiming to be more like the good clubs, say Geelong or Sydney, and not have to sink down the bottom of the ladder for a couple of years before being able to climb back up. Sustained excellence should be the goal, not some cycle of ups and downs.

Out of any club supporter base that should know high draft picks doesn't equal success, it should be us.

In saying that, there's plenty of areas we need change, so I can understand that some may think that won't come about without it being forced on us.

Lord Nev, that’s my hope. Sustained success.

 

[Scythe94]

Where I slightly differ on this is I guess I hold out hope we're aiming to be more like the good clubs, say Geelong or Sydney, and not have to sink down the bottom of the ladder for a couple of years before being able to climb back up. Sustained excellence should be the goal, not some cycle of ups and downs.

Out of any club supporter base that should know high draft picks doesn't equal success, it should be us.

In saying that, there's plenty of areas we need change, so I can understand that some may think that won't come about without it being forced on us.

Yeah I get that, but at this point in the season, we're not going close to sniffing the flag, so I don’t see the harm in being realistic about where we're at. Not saying that we should properly just bottom out over the next few years necessarily, I'm just saying that we should accept this year for what it is and come away from it in the best position to improve our list.

IMO, the club benefits more from having Pick ~7 and missing finals vs Pick ~14 and playing one week of finals. Especially when you consider that we have JT, who you could strongly argue is the most competent/high-performing member of the football department. I'm confident enough in him that I don't see the top part of the draft as a lottery – he rarely misses.

On your last point, I'm pretty set on the idea that the change we need won't come without the shock (for them) of missing finals. You just need to hear the language they use in press conferences to know that they still think we're one of the best teams in it. A reality check wouldn't be a bad thing at all.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Do you think there'll be a massive difference between scraping into finals or just missing them? Not sure I see wholesale changes because we just missed finals.

No idea, better chance though. We aren't going to arse another flag with this clown show.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Lord Nev, that’s my hope. Sustained success.

Fn sick of having to bottom out and missing finals. Nothing wrong with hoping to be more like Geelong. Great club to aim being like.

 

[schmuttt]

I know where we’re at. Others need to accept it. I have mates who go for pies/ dons, business owners making big bucks and they still think they can win the flag this year… f**k me. Sometimes our supporter base is too logical.

Sorry, can you explain what you mean by 'I know where we're at'? Where exactly is that?

 

[Lord Nev]

Yeah I get that, but at this point in the season, we're not going close to sniffing the flag, so I don’t see the harm in being realistic about where we're at. Not saying that we should properly just bottom out, I'm just saying that we should accept this year for what it is and come away from it in the best position to improve our list.

IMO, the club benefits more from having Pick ~7 and missing finals vs Pick ~14 and playing one week of finals. Especially when you consider that we have JT, who you could strongly argue is the most competent/high-performing member of the football department. I'm confident enough in him that I don't see the top part of the draft as a lottery – he rarely misses.

On your last point, I'm pretty set on the idea that the change we need won't come without the shock (for them) of missing finals. You just need to hear the language they use in press conferences to know that they still think we're one of the best teams in it. A reality check wouldn't be a bad thing at all.

Yep, I've posted lots about how I'm in favour of just calling this year off, getting everyone fit, getting a head start on new assistants etc, rather than death riding into 8th. That's why I keep referencing 2019. That year was wrecked by injuries and poor management but we made the most of it with our draft hand, staff and preparation and it paid off with a flag not long afterwards. My concern though is that we're going to try and squeeze the life out of this season it will set us back next year as well when IMO we should be aiming for top 4 in 2025.

Can totally see where you're coming from with the forced changes. Probably why I'm saying I "hope" we can change that about our club, history suggests otherwise, but I dunno, I feel like they know internally how much this year has sucked and will look at it all thoroughly end of year. We're probably the best team in the comp at completely different internal and external messaging. I think we've had the reality check already.

 

[Topkent]

We've found the one campaigner who makes Gawns bullshit actually works on
Envy of the AFL we've won a final in one of the last 5 years what a powerhouse

 

[CNDee]

Sorry, can you explain what you mean by 'I know where we're at'? Where exactly is that?

Injuries to key players. Younger players finding there feet etc . Could go either way Schmitt but I want to succeed

 

[CNDee]

We've found the one campaigner who makes Gawns bullshit actually works on
Envy of the AFL we've won a final in one of the last 5 years what a powerhouse

God you’re painful. Support soccer or badminton. Find your passion

 

[Topkent]

Excuse excuse excuse etf still the best team in it etc

 

[Young Redleg]

to be honest the mods on here need to move you on. You’re not dees supporters and you’re stopping true supporters who turn up every week from talking about where we need to be

Straight out of demonland

 

[Topkent]

God you’re painful. Support soccer or badminton. Find your passion

Mods maybe ban this bloke, it's one opinion or nothing and we'd hate that here

 

[Dancing Potato]

Frankly this whole thread has gone off the rails.

Everyone - no insults or belittling. Play the ball, not the man.

The variety of opinions on this board is what makes it good. Don't ruin it by sniping each other.

 

[schmuttt]

Injuries to key players. Younger players finding there feet etc . Could go either way Schmitt but I want to succeed

So I don't really get the 'others need to accept it' line - the majority on here know our list needs a serious revamp to have a crack at a flag.

I also don't buy the 'winning is everything who cares how it looks' attitude, but I get that is your opinion and there would be plenty that share it, as there is plenty that share mine that we've been horrific since round 10 2022 outside half a dozen games.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Where I slightly differ on this is I guess I hold out hope we're aiming to be more like the good clubs, say Geelong or Sydney, and not have to sink down the bottom of the ladder for a couple of years before being able to climb back up. Sustained excellence should be the goal, not some cycle of ups and downs.

Out of any club supporter base that should know high draft picks doesn't equal success, it should be us.

In saying that, there's plenty of areas we need change, so I can understand that some may think that won't come about without it being forced on us.

You realise Sydney went backwards to go forwards and get where they have been building to now yeah? 15th in 2019 & 16th in 2020