Wrongly managed and condemned: Everitt and Hill

[yebiga]

During Friday nights Fremantle v Carlton Game. During, I think, the 3rd quarter, the camera showed Ratten having a heated go at M.Robinson. The must have done something wrong but he had played a good game to that point and his hard attack of the football was a great example to his team.

After Ratten's words of wisdom, Robinson went onto the ground and executed 5 successive clangers. Whatever instructions Ratten gave him clearly undermined the kids confidence.

Now, I maybe naive and this kind of thing does not happen in the AFL, but it clearly happened on Friday night.

Everitt did have an ordinary game v Essendon, but he would have been in our best 8-9 v Adelaide and was still dropped. Hill missed some tackles v Adelaide but given the conditions, which did not suit him, his performance was fair. Dropping him to play an underdone Higgins was just stupid.

From where I sit, both are treated too harshly by the MC. If your looking for flaws you will find plenty in players much older with much less upside.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

During Friday nights Fremantle v Carlton Game. During, I think, the 3rd quarter, the camera showed Ratten having a heated go at M.Robinson. The must have done something wrong but he had played a good game to that point and his hard attack of the football was a great example to his team.

After Ratten's words of wisdom, Robinson went onto the ground and executed 5 successive clangers. Whatever instructions Ratten gave him clearly undermined the kids confidence.

Now, I maybe naive and this kind of thing does not happen in the AFL, but it clearly happened on Friday night.

Everitt did have an ordinary game v Essendon, but he would have been in our best 8-9 v Adelaide and was still dropped. Hill missed some tackles v Adelaide but given the conditions, which did not suit him, his performance was fair. Dropping him to play an underdone Higgins was just stupid.

From where I sit, both are treated too harshly by the MC. If your looking for flaws you will find plenty in players much older with much less upside.

Who are you referring to in the last para? Do their surnames start with H?

 

[worsfold]

This.

Hill seems to be only interested in getting cheap ones out the back. He simply refuses to lead up at the ball carrier.

His body language at Willi is amazingly similar to that of Nathan Brown in his last couple of games. My guess is Josh already knows he's going to leave.

Back to WA ?

 

[Morris Major]

Your understanding is incorrect, Eade isnot a fan of any player not showing intensity.

Yet he loves picking Stack? Baffling.

 

[Bulldog1954]

It's simple, if they increased their intensity they would get more games.

 

[BWFC]

I would trade both of them. They both lack that killer instinct. Look at Jones and Grant and thats what we must expect from every player. Sure Jones made mistakes the other night, but he chases and tackles and works like a dog.

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

Every player on our list is an individual. They have different needs and have different responses to emotions directed at them. Therefore the way you motivate them should be different as should be the way you assess their performance. It is too easy to drag a player in after a bad game, berate him and punish him. In some cases it will work as it will prick their pride, and their sense of wanting to be the best they can, will urge them to peform at a higher level. In other cases it will deflate their confidence, and the players will be too frightened of making a mistake so will be reactive rather than proactive. In other words, some players need a spray, some need to be loved and reinforced how good they are.

I really hope that players like Hill and Stack have the correct management applied to them and the correct amount of resources devoted to them. They both look unhappy, down on confidence and homesick, from afar. They have talent. The challenge for the club is not to give up on them or trade them or stamp their cards, but to really challenge the coaching staff to get the best out of them and to boost their self confidence, self effiacy, sense of belonging and above all to recapture their love of the game.

 

[Dazb86]

Does Everitt remind anyone of Hargrave in his early years?

 

[Lightning_Mcqueen95]

Everitt just needs to be put on the paddock consistently. If he is he will only improve. Hill looks like a player who needs to be let of the leash. Let him play his natural game. Stack for me is a lost cause and not good enough.

Everitt for me is an option for CHB if Williams proves to still be an injury junkie.

 

[immortalmike]

Does Everitt remind anyone of Hargrave in his early years?

Nope Shaggy knocked out Heath Black in his early years, could you even imagine Everitt doing something like that. Shaggy always had a bit of mongrel in him he just needed to focus it on the ball.

Everitt on the other hand doesn't really have the intensity, he kind of reminds me of Craig Ellis with much better footskills. Man I hope I'm wong on this one.

On a positive note I really like Dre and he's tried his guts out all year and if he keeps trying to up his intesity I think he's every chance to be a good player at some stage.

Hill on the other hand looks entirely devoid of the confidence and poise that we all marvelled at in the early rounds of 2008. I'm not sure what can be done with him to be honest.

 

[Gooka]

I think there comes a time that guys need to get a game based on potential. As already mentioned, these two have played good to very good footy when they have cemented a spot in the team - Hill especially. Ability doesn't disappear.

Our fwd line is more dangerous with Hill running around taking marks and making space. In a final, contested marks are gold and he can give us those.

I know the coaching staff say 'tick these boxes and you get a game' but not every kid is the same. They don't react the same to the challenge. The goal is surely to get the best out of the kid anyway possible?

Hill is the type of guy that will go to somewhere else and play great footy. I can imagine Chocco Williams turning him into a superstar.

 

[Fandalore]

I'm sure we (teh saints) will take em off you for our 1st round pick. Maybe you could get a half decent youngster out of the deal too.

 

[jeemak]

I think there comes a time that guys need to get a game based on potential. As already mentioned, these two have played good to very good footy when they have cemented a spot in the team - Hill especially. Ability doesn't disappear.

Our fwd line is more dangerous with Hill running around taking marks and making space. In a final, contested marks are gold and he can give us those.

I know the coaching staff say 'tick these boxes and you get a game' but not every kid is the same. They don't react the same to the challenge. The goal is surely to get the best out of the kid anyway possible?

Hill is the type of guy that will go to somewhere else and play great footy. I can imagine Chocco Williams turning him into a superstar.

Everitt and Hill have been given games to this point on potential in a lot of instances over the last few years. Hill got his first game out of potential as did Everitt in 2007.

I don't really understand why posters think that certain means of managing both of these players haven't been tried to this point, or aren't the ones that are currently in place. Has anyone considered that these players are completely aware of what they need to do to improve their game, agree with what the coaches are saying about them and know that they currently aren't "ticking the boxes". The club is in a pretty good position to determine how these players need managing, much better than pretty much all of the posters that post here.

First of all, I'm not sure if you know Josh Hill, so can't really comment on how you know what type of guy he is, but what makes you say Chocco Williams would turn him into a gun? His most recent list has had players on it that have come on to the scene strongly in their first year or so, only to struggle a little after. A lot like Hill has, so I'd really like to know why you think the way you do .

 

[SPower]

Unfortunately TCD not every player is Liam Picken. Eade had better show he can develop players who lack confidence or the killer instinct - this was a major knock on him at Sydney and it seems to be repeating.

I love Eade, but the ranting and raving is wearing very, very thin and clearly isn't working with the talented kids who lack intensity.

Hill, Everitt and Stack are exceptionally talented and we will not be able to easily draft that kind of talent with our likely draft picks in coming years (the Father/Son selections aside ) and we will get draft picks in the 30's, 40's or 50's if we trade them. A far better approach is to keep perservering and trying to bring them on as AFL players. If we even get one of them to become a 100+ game player it will have been well worth it.
Just my two bobs worth and not meant as a slag-off at Rocket. We all have deficiencies we can work on, including Eade.

I'm with you , hate and would burn my guts and cut to the bone if we traded the 3 and they turned out gems down the track.(ala J.Grant) Look how Leroy Brown as an example is performing. Sheedy also stuck with Kevin Walsh for yrs before he produced playing games for the big V as well.
Let's hope in a yr or 2 they also produce the goods. On the other hand we spit out kids with talent and are we any better off!!

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

Eade had better show he can develop players who lack confidence or the killer instinct - this was a major knock on him at Sydney and it seems to be repeating.

I love Eade, but the ranting and raving is wearing very, very thin and clearly isn't working with the talented kids who lack intensity.

Hill, Everitt and Stack are exceptionally talented and we will not be able to easily draft that kind of talent with our likely draft picks in coming years (the Father/Son selections aside ) and we will get draft picks in the 30's, 40's or 50's if we trade them. A far better approach is to keep perservering and trying to bring them on as AFL players. If we even get one of them to become a 100+ game player it will have been well worth it.

Just my two bobs worth and not meant as a slag-off at Rocket. We all have deficiencies we can work on, including Eade.

Really good post Longwait. IMO we have a lack of outside type finishing players and some of the young talented ones we do have arn't in the side through lack of confidence. Both Hill and Stack look like their confidence is shot and they don't look happy with their football. And the frustrating thing is that they havn't improved in the last two years or so. If anything they have gone backwards.

Similar to you, it frustrates me that we seem to struggle to get the best out of these kinds of players. Maybe it is the players fault, maybe it is the coaches fault, or just a homesickness thing, but I would love for them to have long careers with the dogs and get the most of out of their potential. It wouldn't surprise me if 1,2 or all 3 wern't with the club next year.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

Really good post Longwait. IMO we have a lack of outside type finishing players and some of the young talented ones we do have arn't in the side through lack of confidence. Both Hill and Stack look like their confidence is shot and they don't look happy with their football. And the frustrating thing is that they havn't improved in the last two years or so. If anything they have gone backwards.

Similar to you, it frustrates me that we seem to struggle to get the best out of these kinds of players. Maybe it is the players fault, maybe it is the coaches fault, or just a homesickness thing, but I would love for them to have long careers with the dogs and get the most of out of their potential. It wouldn't surprise me if 1,2 or all 3 wern't with the club next year.

While the thread was started with referenced to Hill and Everitt, it seems that Stack has also come into thinking.

With all 3 they have had plenty of chances and maybe Everitt has got dropped more easily than most.

Problem with Everitt he has not demanded a spot with his performance like J Grant or even Easton Wood. Surely it is on him to do what is required. He has improved in 2010 and he seems to have played better at Willi when dropped back to that level and I see that as a positive sign.

Hill has not coped as well and some of his Willi form is poor. I feel there are bigger issues with Josh that may not be solvable at the Dogs.

Stack has had plenty of chances and shown glimpses. His game in Canberra was terrific. At Willi it appears that he is about the same. Has potential but needs to take his chances and be a consistent contributor.

If you want to see what a player should do when dropped down a level you just need to look at Minson who has been superb when playing at Willi. If they other 3 with more talent could bring the same attitude this discussion would not be happening.

 

[Leon]

If either of these two has a case for feeling hard done by it's Everitt.

he is a bit of a scapegoat, and although in the past he's only had himself to blame for this due to a laconic approach, I feel his efforts have improved lately.

Josh Hill I doubt even knows what the word intensity means.

 

[JorgePosada]

Do you think it might be chicken and egg stuff though? From my understanding Eade is not a big fan of Dre and given this is not really a secret, surely he might struggle with this?

Got an answer this yet?

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

Problem with Everitt he has not demanded a spot with his performance like J Grant or even Easton Wood. Surely it is on him to do what is required. He has improved in 2010 and he seems to have played better at Willi when dropped back to that level and I see that as a positive sign.

Hill has not coped as well and some of his Willi form is poor. I feel there are bigger issues with Josh that may not be solvable at the Dogs.

Stack has had plenty of chances and shown glimpses. His game in Canberra was terrific. At Willi it appears that he is about the same. Has potential but needs to take his chances and be a consistent contributor.

If you want to see what a player should do when dropped down a level you just need to look at Minson who has been superb when playing at Willi. If they other 3 with more talent could bring the same attitude this discussion would not be happening.

Yes, but that underlines the point. Not everyone has the same attitude or personality as Minson. Every player on our list is unique. Every player has different confidence levels and self esteem levels. Some feel comfortable in the team, some feel out of place and always fighting for their spot. The best coaches use different approaches to each player to get the best out of them. A player like Eagleton can come into the side from the VFL and not miss a beat. Others require games under their belt to get their confidence and get used to the tempo of the difference in standards.

I look at these three players and feel that they have not improved in the last two years. Surely that is a problem with the coaching or our development program. Hill played superb football two or so years ago. Stack kicked three or four goals in only his second game last year, and Everitt played really good patches a year or so ago. But all three are down on confidence and performance and you have to wonder why. They are all talented, it will be a huge waste and shame if we were to not get the best out of them or lose them. That is where the frustration really kicks in, because of their talent and ability. If they had not much talent it wouldn't worry me so much.

Anyway, the debate is probably moot. I would put money on the club trading Everitt at the end of the year, Hill wanting a trade to another club, and Stack moving back to WA so he and his young boy can be closer to their family.

 

[Obeanie1]

What is the contract status of Hill and Everitt?

A Hill trade back to WA is sounding more and more likely, if he doesn't get picked this week that two years in a row hill has been left out of the finals series.

 

[The Panther]

Can't understand Everitt's non selection. Eade refused to trade him last year b/c it was 3 picks too low.

Dominated against Collingwood in RD 22 as a Leigh Brown ruck/utility type. To see Callan there infront of him indicates how lowly Eade ranks Everitt.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Callan and Everitt are not in competition for a spot.

Callan also did well on Leon

 

[boydsno1]

Agree. Callan came in due to harbrow being beaten by leon a few times already. With wood out callan was a better option then everitt.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Do you think it might be chicken and egg stuff though? From my understanding Eade is not a big fan of Dre and given this is not really a secret, surely he might struggle with this?

Is that the same as "Rumour has it..." or "I've heard..." or "I've been told by a reliable source ..." or "It seems to be the popular opinion on BF..."?

When you've asked Rocket personally, get back to us.

 

[The Panther]

Callan and Everitt are not in competition for a spot.

Callan also did well on Leon

Neon & Callan were both non entities. To bring in a specialized player for Leon, who was in terrible form, is a baffling selection.

Even if they are not in direct competition, it shows how far Everitt is behind in the pecking order there. Leigh Brown would have been a lot more accountable if Everitt was there & even before the ball was bounced, a much bigger influence on our game than Leon.

The matchups allround were pretty dismal from Eade.