List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II

[JediSaint]

Unless we sort out our midfield and game plan, most of the list decisions won’t matter, because the team will not be able to perform to it’s potential..

1. Midfield
Believe it or not, we need more grunt and contested ball winners.. reason why Crouch is a tackling machine now is that we’re always second to the ball, Gresham, Clarke, Jones will not be the contested ball pigs like Oliver, Dunkley.. so, we need to find 1-2 more.. 1. experienced e.g. Matt Crouch 2. Bruhn? or any other young pure mids we can shake out

2. Game plan

• Set up the team to win the ball first.. when you’re defensive, you’re already on the back foot, unless you can get the ball back consistently which we can’t..
• Only play players who can win their 1 on 1 duels, cannot afford to carry uncontested players, it puts too much pressure on others/midfield
• Bring the flair back, run from behind to link up, break the line.. play fast (within reason), even if we make mistakes it will be much more exciting and entertaining than the dull long bomb down the line game style.

People laugh at Hawthorn’s run and gun game not yielding more wins that us, but they took it up to a lot of good sides with that exciting game style. As their young players develop, trade in better players, wins will come. Compared to our blue collar / labourous game style, where kicking a goal is so much hard work, I can see which style is more sustainable long term..

It’s been working for Collingwood

 

[Joffaboy]

Owens and Windy were fast tracked through the academy. I heard it discussed on SEN last year, that academy kids come in about 1 to 2 years ahead of kids who only have their school and TAC footy. They get access to all the staff and equipment that seniors get and train along side them which mentally makes it easier. That seems to check out to me. Nas was good but to me looked tired a lot earlier and dropped off a bit after a good start.

Interesting, no wonder Sydney are so good. 5 free players all fast tracked.

 

[Joffaboy]

Quinton Narkle?

Dylan Roberton

 

[JediSaint]

Why would gold coast do that? Essentially pick 5 for Clark and Long, one has barely played in 2 years and the other is inconsistent and hasn't found a proper postition just yet.

1- GC have come out saying they are seeking a developed HB and willing to pay. Just read the thread. Clark is clean on both sides. A real asset for a team moving forward.

2 - GC have shown interest in Long

3 - GC need to unload picks

Just joining the dots and just speculating. Remember they are the ones shopping for players not for sale.

 

[JediSaint]

Do you seriously think they don't do this? Results of it can be argued but to think they don't plan is breathtaking.

I’m sure they do, but then why was Hill recruited if we are going to play the short kicking possession game. Or recruit a 200cm forward to kick it over his head so he can run onto it. We have so many players on the list that don’t compliment the game plan. We don’t play to our strengths.

So what is going on in these meeting then?

 

[Joffaboy]

I’m sure they do, but then why was Hill recruited if we are going to play the short kicking possession game. Or recruit a 200cm forward to kick it over his head so he can run onto it. We have so many players on the list that don’t compliment the game plan. We don’t play to our strengths.

So what is going on in these meeting then?

They weren't playing the short kicking game when 8-3, they were playing like Collingwood are. Hill looked great.

The 200cm forward kicked 50+ goals as a 22 y.o.
Surely you aren't knock that selection.

As for what goes on in the meeting, probably just throw darts and hope for the best

 

[JediSaint]

Hard agree. That reads like the Sydney model where they have a lot of mids just rotating through. I think it’s ideal for development if you have enough quality players to do so, and a game plan which everyone is on board with. Will look even better with a top 10 pick thrown into that mix as well.

Ratts needs to free us up next year and take the shackles off a bit. Will go a long way to opening up our forward line and kicking a bigger score on avg which really dropped off.

Hard Agree!
Look what Collingwood has done with Daicos this year, playing him off HB and Mid.

Compared to how Norf used Francis Horne. They kept him only in the mid and as good as he is his development impact wasn’t a noticeable.

 

[PandaG]

You keep banging on about the club needing to stop the talk.

I’ve already told you the talk is correct.

I’ll also go as far as saying this. Between Monday and the start of trade week.

Atleast one of Gallagher/Lethers/Ratten/Rath will get interviewed and asked about Clark.

They will say he is a big part of our future and best 22 and so much potential blah blah blah.

Conveniently stopping short of saying he is categorically not going to be traded.

It will all be about the offer and I think it will have to look like the Cerra deal for it to be done.

I think we are looking to package up and take a late first. Try move hill for a late first.

Go into the top 30 of the draft with a really strong hand.

It’s a risk no matter how much lipstick is put in it
If the club thought Clark was a star, he would be max king untouchable…apparently not so.
Now it only puts doubt in Clarks mind.
Most likely he doesn’t get traded, but the doubt remains.

It’s poor player management, wellfare and retention strategy.

I think also the clubs recruitment between 2009-2018 - the McCartin fiasco, Hill, Hannebury, ….has meant many fans have lost trust in the club, regardless of the admin turn over. It takes a long time to build trust but it can be lost in the blink on an eye. The post bye capitulation is just the icing on the lost trust cake, which is now on the coaching and playing group.

So now everything the saints do is questioned. Including trading and list management….make your bed I suppose

 

[PandaG]

He didn’t use us to get a better deal

The pies put there original offer back on the table with a few more get out of jail clauses and triggers.

Would be stupid not too. Look how good he is.

Truth is though. That he will stuff up again. If the pies are flying, it won’t matter though.

Degoey was never going to play for stkilda unless we again sold the 2nd farm next to Brad hills..

 

[PandaG]

We are talking about selling off a guy to "clear space" that we paid a fortune for in dollars and trade capital and the club wants us to trust that the people who would make these decisions are on the ball. You are trying to sell this as some kind of positive. It's a diabolical * up, like cashing in your super to buy Crypto at the peak and telling everyone how clever you are getting 5 cents in the dollar back.

Clark is the guy we have invested 5 years of hope in and as our highest pick that year and one of the few first rounders, we hope he's one that might come good and carry us forward. Again, we picked him and now we're hoping we can cash him in, likely for less than we paid.

It looks a lot like stalling for time because they've fallen short again, They can sell missing finals next year on all the kids and not have to face any consequences for their failures. This footy department is racking up more * ups than wins at the moment and really needs a torch shined on them.

If you can't see how people would be upset by the club n this situation you don't really understand psychology.

This times 1,000️

 

[JediSaint]

They weren't playing the short kicking game when 8-3, they were playing like Collingwood are. Hill looked great.

The 200cm forward kicked 50+ goals as a 22 y.o.
Surely you aren't knock that selection.

As for what goes on in the meeting, probably just throw darts and hope for the best

We only showed glimpses of the potential running game we could play and when we did we only did for about 15-20min during 1 quarter over a whole game. The only real time we dominated the game.
The rest of the time we played the short kicking game or down the line and hope for the best.

Considering the game plan King was outstanding for a 22yo. For some strange reason we all believe King has to run up the ground and “burn” defenders. But really it’s him that’s getting burnt. Anyway, my previous post was on “not playing to our strengths”.
Kings strength is his burst run and marking at the highest point. Im sure you will agree.
Yet we kicked it on his head or behind him to run onto it.
So could you imaging then how many goals he could of kicked if he was leading towards the kicker.

Hence, wtf is going on in those meetings.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

We should look at liam Henry and Jeremy sharp

 

[PandaG]

If Jones can't play mids any more he probably has to take Hill's spot or play VFL.

Jones needs to be traded

 

[JediSaint]

Sheezel looks a gun

Ashcroft is next level and the way he and McKenzie work the stoppages is magic.
McKenzie ball use was was really smooth hit short and long range targets. Definitely top 10 but where is a mystery.

Sneezel is an athletic, solid contender and would be in your the starting 22.
Plenty of midfield minutes and rotated into HF. Dominated the forward line. Definitely top 5

There were more scouts at that game than at a Jamboree. So who knows where they will be drafted.

 

[JediSaint]

Conversation has descended into the size of Clark's hands, gee wizz. This place is bonkers

Don’t know what’s worse, the comment or the fact we are reading it!

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Can tell you lot are from the Pong era

 

[Diehard Saint]

According to someone on Twitter - yes I know, marginally better than FB Tom Campbell

29

Tom Campbell

Age

33

Ht

201cm

Wt

108kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.1

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

4.8

3star

CL

1.6

4star

HO

17.0

5star

D

5.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

2.0

1star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

2.0

5star

D

7.2

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

3.0

3star

CL

1.2

4star

HO

13.2

5star

told him personally that he just signed for another year.
Can’t be unhappy about that.
Depth and someone to help Heath along.

 

[JediSaint]

Owens and Windy were fast tracked through the academy. I heard it discussed on SEN last year, that academy kids come in about 1 to 2 years ahead of kids who only have their school and TAC footy. They get access to all the staff and equipment that seniors get and train along side them which mentally makes it easier. That seems to check out to me. Nas was good but to me looked tired a lot earlier and dropped off a bit after a good start.

The saints academy is the best development in the league. Just look how many sandy dragons are going top 10.

 

[Saint Shags]

Interesting, no wonder Sydney are so good. 5 free players all fast tracked.

But I've been told by plenty on here -not you- that we have no development in our players?

 

[JediSaint]

According to someone on Twitter - yes I know, marginally better than FB Tom Campbell told him personally that he just signed for another year.
Can’t be unhappy about that.
Depth and someone to help Heath along.

He rag dolled Hickey last game. Deserves an extra year.

 

[jwikked]

But I've been told by plenty on here -not you- that we have no development in our players?

Are you saying our player development over the last 10 years has been good?

 

[JediSaint]

Rookie list? With an arm full of performance clauses

 

[puppy_dog7]

The Pies played 2 young guys playing last night. Ginnivan and Daicos. Most of their other "youth" are now 24ish. We didn't draft them 4 years ago. Losing Clark seems the opposite way that Collingwood have done it. They have a big pool of youth because they have used the draft every year and taken their picks.

Finding 2 star kids has helped but Daicos should have been pick one and Ginnivan was just a lucky pick off the rookie list.

Don’t forget Quaynor (pick 13) as an academy pick.

They’ve been absolutely kissed on the dick.

 

[puppy_dog7]

Rookie list? With an arm full of performance clauses

I think it’s definitely worth it. We’ve got nothing to lose by rookie’ing him or picking him up as a late pre selection if he can get through a pre season uninjured.

However, it’d be so stkilda to see another team take a punt only for him to play every game for them.

 

[Saint Shags]

Are you saying our player development over the last 10 years has been good?

I'm pointing at the idea that we've been told ad nuseum on here that we are useless and that Owens and Windy just dropped into our lap luckily.
And that it had nothing to do with our development.

It's funny as there would be plenty of examples of people wanting DMac gone over the previous 5 years. Is his turnaround from midway through 2021 just pure luck or does development have something to do with it?

Again not claiming that our development has been near where it has needed to be. But is it as horrid that we've made it be?

Are there issues at the club that need rectifying? Of course there are. But the sky is falling narrative is getting to be ridiculous. Just as it would be if people were claiming there was nothing wrong at all.