Opinion Sack Hinkley 9 - I Am Become Donuts, Destroyer Of Ports

[tribey]

Where did Tom Lynch, Josh Caddy and Dion Prestia first ply their trade?

What picks did Richmond use to pick Dustin Martin and Trent Cotchin?

Here I’ll help you out:

Vlastuin - Pick 9, 2012 draft
Prestia - Pick 9, 2010 draft (Gold Coast), traded for in 2016
Martin - Pick 3, 2009 draft
Ellis - Pick 15, 2011 draft
Grigg - Pick 19, 2006 draft
Reiwoldt - Pick 13, 2006 draft
Edwards - Pick 26, 2006 draft
Cotchin - Pick 2, 2007 draft
Astbury - Pick 35, 2009 draft
Houli - Pick 42, 2006 draft - walked to Richmond via PSD in 2011 when he was a known quantity
Rioli - Pick 15, 2015 draft
Rance - Pick 18, 2007 draft
Caddy - Pick 7, 2010 draft (traded from Geelong in 2016)
Nankervis - Pick 35, 2013 draft (traded from Sydney in 2016)
McIntosh - Pick 31, 2012 draft

Biggest fallacy is that Richmond’s best 22 was this bunch of scrubbers. Most of them were first or second round picks, with a few decent third round picks. Then they happened to draft Bolton in 2016 and added Tom Lynch as an FA at the end of 2017.

Here’s Richmond’s scrubs:

Grimes - Pick 2, 2009 PSD
Lambert - Pick 46, 2014 Rookie Draft
Butler - Pick 67, 2014 Draft
Castagna - Pick 29, 2014 Rookie Draft
Short - Pick 11, 2014 Rookie Draft

If Butcher, Moore and Pittard had come on like they were suppose to, then perhaps we’d be having a different conversation. But they didn’t, so here we are.

You’re completely missing the point.

We could be doing the exact same exercise with the lists we’ve had.

Where did Charlie Dixon, Paddy Ryder, Aliir Aliir and Tom Rockliff first ply their trade? And on and on and on…

 

[El_Scorcho]

Where did Tom Lynch, Josh Caddy and Dion Prestia first ply their trade?

What picks did Richmond use to pick Dustin Martin and Trent Cotchin?

Here I’ll help you out:

Vlastuin - Pick 9, 2012 draft
Prestia - Pick 9, 2010 draft (Gold Coast), traded for in 2016
Martin - Pick 3, 2009 draft
Ellis - Pick 15, 2011 draft
Grigg - Pick 19, 2006 draft
Reiwoldt - Pick 13, 2006 draft
Edwards - Pick 26, 2006 draft
Cotchin - Pick 2, 2007 draft
Astbury - Pick 35, 2009 draft
Houli - Pick 42, 2006 draft - walked to Richmond via PSD in 2011 when he was a known quantity
Rioli - Pick 15, 2015 draft
Rance - Pick 18, 2007 draft
Caddy - Pick 7, 2010 draft (traded from Geelong in 2016)
Nankervis - Pick 35, 2013 draft (traded from Sydney in 2016)
McIntosh - Pick 31, 2012 draft

Biggest fallacy is that Richmond’s best 22 was this bunch of scrubbers. Most of them were first or second round picks, with a few decent third round picks. Then they happened to draft Bolton in 2016 and added Tom Lynch as an FA at the end of 2017.

Here’s Richmond’s scrubs:

Grimes - Pick 2, 2009 PSD
Lambert - Pick 46, 2014 Rookie Draft
Butler - Pick 67, 2014 Draft
Castagna - Pick 29, 2014 Rookie Draft
Short - Pick 11, 2014 Rookie Draft

If Butcher, Moore and Pittard had come on like they were suppose to, then perhaps we’d be having a different conversation. But they didn’t, so here we are.

You can list this sort of thing with literally every club. Every list is full of first and second rounders

Port 2018
Boak Pick 5 2006
SPP Pick 18 2016
Ryder Pick 7 2005
Ebert Pick 13 2007
Hartlett Pick 4 2008
McKenzie GC underage
Marshall Pick 16 2016
Wines Pick 7 2013
Toumpas Pick 4 2012
Trengove Pick 2 2009
Wingard Pick 6 2011
Polec Pick 5 2010
Dixon GC zone pick
Watts 2008 Pick 1
Drew Pick 33 2016
Pittard Pick 16 2009 (call him a failure but was in the All Australian Squad in 2016)
Hombsch GWS underage

Not to mention All Australian and/or best and fairest winning “scrubbers” like Robbie Gray, Tom Rockliff, Karl Amon, Darcy Byrne-Jones, Justin Westhoff, captain Tom Jonas, likely 2023 All Australian Dan Houston.

 

[tribey]

You can list this sort of thing with literally every club. Every list is full of first and second rounders

Port 2018
Boak Pick 5 2006
SPP Pick 18 2016
Ryder Pick 7 2005
Ebert Pick 13 2007
Hartlett Pick 4 2008
McKenzie GC underage
Marshall Pick 16 2016
Wines Pick 7 2013
Toumpas Pick 4 2012
Trengove Pick 2 2009
Wingard Pick 6 2011
Polec Pick 5 2010
Dixon GC zone pick
Watts 2008 Pick 1
Drew Pick 33 2016
Pittard Pick 16 2009 (call him a failure but was in the All Australian Squad in 2016)
Hombsch GWS underage

Not to mention All Australian and/or best and fairest winning “scrubbers” like Robbie Gray, Tom Rockliff, Karl Amon, Darcy Byrne-Jones, Justin Westhoff, captain Tom Jonas, likely 2023 All Australian Dan Houston.

For emphasis,

Three-time premiership player David Astbury is cited presumably as an example of wonderful longform list construction/talent acquisition at pick 35 in the 2009 Draft.

He played 17 games in his rookie year (2010), but then due to a combination of injury and form, his subsequent slate looks like:

2011: 5 games
2012: 2 games
2013: 5 games
2014: 8 games
2015: 4 games
2016: 19 games
2017: 25 games
2018: 22 games
2019: 22 games (Rance ACL R1)
2020: 9 games
2021: 17 games






“Arse-bury” by Round 3, 2016. Yikes.

While we pull someone like Dougal Howard out of the bowels of the umpteenth round (#56, 2014), make him captain for a day, can’t decide whether he’s a forward or back amidst an ACL along the way, so package him up with Ryder for a first rounder and bemoan our poor tall defensive stocks ever since.

Poor… Ken?

 

[backtozero]

When are you guys going to stop arguing with Janus?

 

[tribey]

When are you guys going to stop arguing with Janus?

I’m down to picking and choosing when to not dismiss his dogma completely.

Hopefully they bring out a Nicorette-style patch.

 

[Contested Marx]

When are you guys going to stop arguing with Janus?

answer a fool according to his folly and all that

 

[El_Scorcho]

When are you guys going to stop arguing with Janus?

Never. It's good and I enjoy testing my opinions and defending them. I understand the game better because I've spent a decade countering high level contrarianism.

 

[dirty2]

=ken hinkley

 

[Contested Marx]

Never. It's good and I enjoy testing my opinions and defending them. I understand the game better because I've spent a decade countering high level contrarianism.

Ur mom scorchy

Defend that lol

 

[killtaker1993]

J'Anus

 

[longdonkey]

I know I said I was gone but I had to come back and celebrate the first pawn to fall. Thank you for your service Tom Jonas but Hinkley gifted you about 2 years of games and unfortunately for you that will be your legacy. Should have got one AA but should have retired 2 years ago.

 

[PA88]

I just realised that Nicks will get sacked before Hinkley next year.

By Round 1 2025, the Crows will be up to their 5th coach throughout our Hinkley era.

*assuming they do miss finals again in 2024.

And Rooshito will steal another assistant from under us again.

 

[Contested Marx]

Sorry schorcho you know I loves you and me dog and me missus I'll share a pint with you if you ever come up to the smelter city

 

[bresker]

Great idea to have all the ‘sack the coach’ talk in one thread. The Bulldogs board is like a drunken party where everyone talks at once at the moment .

We’re about to find out that giving our coach a completely unnecessary two year contract extension was a really bad idea .

He’s gone .

 

[Thunderer]

Just can't help thinking that Rozee, Butters and Horne-Francis are so talented that they just might be able to take a mediocre coach to a Grand Final.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

The argument is all kind of pointless, because we'll know in a month for sure.

There are absolutely no excuses for not winning the flag this year. 11 years and with everything gifted to him this has to be it. If he wins the flag this year then we can probably say he is at worst a mediocre coach. If he doesn't then he isn't at that level and the extension was a massive mistake.

So let's just enjoy the ride for now.

 

[bomberclifford]

Great idea to have all the ‘sack the coach’ talk in one thread.

 

[bomberclifford]

The argument is all kind of pointless, because we'll know in a month for sure.

There are absolutely no excuses for not winning the flag this year. 11 years and with everything gifted to him this has to be it. If he wins the flag this year then we can probably say he is at worst a mediocre coach. If he doesn't then he isn't at that level and the extension was a massive mistake.

So let's just enjoy the ride for now.

Look, if we make the Grand Final this year, then it's a pass. Win or lose, it breaks the hoodoo.
Losing another prelim would be ****ed but also, not the end of the world, if its a narrow loss.

Another big loss in prelim or a straight sets exit and we'll all be entering the hellscape part in Event Horizon, gauging our eyes out and beating each other with our own severed limbs.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Look, if we make the Grand Final this year, then it's a pass. Win or lose, it breaks the hoodoo.
Losing another prelim would be ****ed but also, not the end of the world, if its a narrow loss.

Another big loss in prelim or a straight sets exit and we'll all be entering the hellscape part in Event Horizon, gauging our eyes out and beating each other with our own severed limbs.

I hear where you're coming from but I have to disagree.

11th season, best midfield in the competition, solid support in the coaching box = must win the flag.

 

[Del165198]

I hear where you're coming from but I have to disagree.

11th season, best midfield in the competition, solid support in the coaching box = must win the flag.

Agreed, you don't get many shots at a grand final (esp if you're ken). Not winning it is a fail.

Look at Adelaide after 2017 or gws after 2019. There's no guarantees you'll be up there again.

 

[Pappagallo]

I hear where you're coming from but I have to disagree.

11th season, best midfield in the competition, solid support in the coaching box = must win the flag.

Excuse me but I think you’ll find the first 6 years don’t count because the players were different so we’re only really in like the 5th season of the REAL Hinkley era and Hardwick won in his 8th season so yeah he has a few more rolls of the dice here.

 

[Janus]

You can list this sort of thing with literally every club. Every list is full of first and second rounders

Port 2018
Boak Pick 5 2006
SPP Pick 18 2016
Ryder Pick 7 2005
Ebert Pick 13 2007
Hartlett Pick 4 2008
McKenzie GC underage
Marshall Pick 16 2016
Wines Pick 7 2013
Toumpas Pick 4 2012
Trengove Pick 2 2009
Wingard Pick 6 2011
Polec Pick 5 2010
Dixon GC zone pick
Watts 2008 Pick 1
Drew Pick 33 2016
Pittard Pick 16 2009 (call him a failure but was in the All Australian Squad in 2016)
Hombsch GWS underage

Not to mention All Australian and/or best and fairest winning “scrubbers” like Robbie Gray, Tom Rockliff, Karl Amon, Darcy Byrne-Jones, Justin Westhoff, captain Tom Jonas, likely 2023 All Australian Dan Houston.

Toumpas? Trengove? Those guys were known to be absolutely cooked when they got to us and hardly even played in 2018. Watts was traded for Pick 31 and never reached the heights that a first round draft pick should. Drew wasn’t even playing in 2018 due to injury, Marshall was still developing etc etc

If that’s the best you’ve got, that proves my point. In 2014 and 2020, we were probably one or two decent players away from making and winning a GF. Put two of 2023 Butters/Rozee/Horne-Francis/Bergman/Aliir in the 2014 or 2023 sides and we win. Hell give me Rioli over Neade in 2014 and we win.

Once you accept that we were one to two above average to elite players away from being a genuine contender during those years, you can reconcile the fact that a best 22 that has Rozee, Wines, Butters, Duursma, Dixon, Bergman, Rioli, Marshall, Powell-Pepper, Drew, Horne-Francis, Burton, Aliir, Jones, Williams, Byrne-Jones, Houston and Boak can win the flag this year.

I don't blame the players. I think they got as far as they were able to given the fact that they were hamstrung by shitty drafting from 2008-2012.

 

[edgie]

Janus:
BUT JOHN BUTCHER

John Butcher

Age

33

Ht

197cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

7.8

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.6

5star

Forgetting that Richmond gave Tyrone Vickery over a hundred games and still managed to win the flag.

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

 

[Pappagallo]

Toumpas? Trengove? Those guys were known to be absolutely cooked when they got to us and hardly even played in 2018. Watts was traded for Pick 31 and never reached the heights that a first round draft pick should. Drew wasn’t even playing in 2018 due to injury, Marshall was still developing etc etc

If that’s the best you’ve got, that proves my point. In 2014 and 2020, we were probably one or two decent players away from making and winning a GF. Put two of 2023 Butters/Rozee/Horne-Francis/Bergman/Aliir in the 2014 or 2023 sides and we win. Hell give me Rioli over Neade in 2014 and we win.

Once you accept that we were one to two above average to elite players away from being a genuine contender during those years, you can reconcile the fact that a best 22 that has Rozee, Wines, Butters, Duursma, Dixon, Bergman, Rioli, Marshall, Powell-Pepper, Drew, Horne-Francis, Burton, Aliir, Jones, Williams, Byrne-Jones, Houston and Boak can win the flag this year.

I don't blame the players. I think they got as far as they were able to given the fact that they were hamstrung by shitty drafting from 2008-2012.

The shitty drafting of Ollie Wines, Chad Wingard, Hamish Hartlett, Matt Broadbent, Jackson Trengove lol. Turn it up.

I’ll give you 2009 apart from Butcher. He was the right choice considering Tredrea was close to the end, we just mismanaged the bejeezus out of him. But we absolutely should’ve done better with the next two picks and snagged at least one of Gunston or Talia or Gawn too.

We only had middling picks in 2010 so this one’s a bit meh. The only glaring mistake was picking Jacobs over Lycett who was right under our nose. Can’t blame lack of resources for that one.

Point is one sub par draft doesn’t derail your premiership aspirations for a decade plus. We had enough quality to contend.

We beat the Hawks in 2014.

We beat the Tigers in 2020.

We beat the Bulldogs in 2021.

Just not when it counted.

 

[TeeKray]

And when we inevitably don't win anything with the current playing group it'll be the same ex post facto 'he didn't have the talent' argument despite having a midfield that will probably end up on par with the famous Brisbane and West Coast midfields.