Opinion Sack Hinkley 9 - I Am Become Donuts, Destroyer Of Ports

[Pappagallo]

And when we inevitably don't win anything with the current playing group it'll be the same ex post facto 'he didn't have the talent' argument despite having a midfield that will probably end up on par with the famous Brisbane and West Coast midfields.

Could very well be yet another year where we beat a team in the regular season but lose to them when the whips are cracking.

I’m sure there’s a common denominator here but I can’t quite put me finger on it.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Toumpas? Trengove? Those guys were known to be absolutely cooked when they got to us and hardly even played in 2018. Watts was traded for Pick 31 and never reached the heights that a first round draft pick should. Drew wasn’t even playing in 2018 due to injury, Marshall was still developing etc etc

If that’s the best you’ve got, that proves my point. In 2014 and 2020, we were probably one or two decent players away from making and winning a GF. Put two of 2023 Butters/Rozee/Horne-Francis/Bergman/Aliir in the 2014 or 2023 sides and we win. Hell give me Rioli over Neade in 2014 and we win.

Once you accept that we were one to two above average to elite players away from being a genuine contender during those years, you can reconcile the fact that a best 22 that has Rozee, Wines, Butters, Duursma, Dixon, Bergman, Rioli, Marshall, Powell-Pepper, Drew, Horne-Francis, Burton, Aliir, Jones, Williams, Byrne-Jones, Houston and Boak can win the flag this year.

I don't blame the players. I think they got as far as they were able to given the fact that they were hamstrung by shitty drafting from 2008-2012.

Do you accept that regardless of anything else that's happened in the past 15 years, we can and should win the flag this year?

 

[tribey]

I’ll give you 2009 apart from Butcher. He was the right choice considering Tredrea was close to the end, we just mismanaged the bejeezus out of him. But we absolutely should’ve done better with the next two picks and snagged at least one of Gunston or Talia or Gawn too.

Yeah, Daniel Talia and Jake Carlisle were the big whiffs.

Butcher was the absolute no-brainer/non-negotiable pick at #8, what with his stock rising as high as #1 prior to his hip issues.

Talia was considered to be the #1 KPD in that draft, and Carlisle wasn’t far behind, with the usual “he’ll probably play forward as well!” tantalisation.

Choc fell in love with Andrew Moore whose draft stock went through the roof after clowning fellow highly-rated prospect Gary Rohan, and even playing CHF for Vic Metro (#1 at the U18 Champs for contested marks!).

He also tested through the roof at the combine, at a time when Ryan O’Keefe was the greatest thing since sliced bread as the midfield-forward hybrid (David King’s contemporary ‘striker’ role) was just coming into vogue.

And obviously, we all know what happened with Pittard. Who charmed Choc in the interview with his intelligence and footy IQ despite looking like Olive Oyl. Easily the least defensible of the three, with a host of Hall Of Famers still on the board.

 

[Coobk001]

I just wanted to raise something that personally I thought raised a side of Hinkleys ignorance that I couldn't believe came from a senior AFL coach.

Multiple times in Hinkleys presser on Sunday he mentioned, "it might be the last game we play at home this year"

This is a professional AFL coach that doesn't understand that by finishing top 4 he is guaranteed at least 1 home final.

How can you be an AFL coach and not understand such a basic fact?

At a minimum we'll be playing a home SF or home PF. I just thought that was just yet another damning moment from him personally.

 

[wgt]

Ken and his happy klan of media propagandists are pretty much setting the narrative that we a young developing team whose time will come in the next couple of years, i mean if this wasnt actual reality it would be a comic routine.

 

[tribey]

I just wanted to raise something that personally I thought raised a side of Hinkleys ignorance that I couldn't believe came from a senior AFL coach.

Multiple times in Hinkleys presser on Sunday he mentioned, "it might be the last game we play at home this year"

This is a professional AFL coach that doesn't understand that by finishing top 4 he is guaranteed at least 1 home final.

How can you be an AFL coach and not understand such a basic fact?

At a minimum we'll be playing a home SF or home PF. I just thought that was just yet another damning moment from him personally.

Off the back of Richardson’s interview tour claiming “three top-4 finishes in a row!”,

For a club which claims to make important personnel decisions based on ‘facts’, it’s a touch concerning the CEO and head coach don’t seem to be on top of them.

 

[sobrave]

I just wanted to raise something that personally I thought raised a side of Hinkleys ignorance that I couldn't believe came from a senior AFL coach.

Multiple times in Hinkleys presser on Sunday he mentioned, "it might be the last game we play at home this year"

This is a professional AFL coach that doesn't understand that by finishing top 4 he is guaranteed at least 1 home final.

How can you be an AFL coach and not understand such a basic fact?

At a minimum we'll be playing a home SF or home PF. I just thought that was just yet another damning moment from him personally.

What do you put the turnaround in form to Kenny?

Ken, how come the tem isn't performing right now?

Ken, you lost the prelim by 15 goals, what happened?

 

[PowerLil]

The argument is all kind of pointless, because we'll know in a month for sure.

There are absolutely no excuses for not winning the flag this year. 11 years and with everything gifted to him this has to be it. If he wins the flag this year then we can probably say he is at worst a mediocre coach. If he doesn't then he isn't at that level and the extension was a massive mistake.

So let's just enjoy the ride for now.

Absolutely would've enjoyed the ride if he hadn't been extended for two years. He doesn't need to win jack sh*t this year or next and probably the year after too.

 

[PowerLil]

I just wanted to raise something that personally I thought raised a side of Hinkleys ignorance that I couldn't believe came from a senior AFL coach.

Multiple times in Hinkleys presser on Sunday he mentioned, "it might be the last game we play at home this year"

This is a professional AFL coach that doesn't understand that by finishing top 4 he is guaranteed at least 1 home final.

How can you be an AFL coach and not understand such a basic fact?

At a minimum we'll be playing a home SF or home PF. I just thought that was just yet another damning moment from him personally.

In the presser yesterday with TJ, he said Tommy was one of the two captains in his time at Port. This guy's stupidity is boundless.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Yeah, Daniel Talia and Jake Carlisle were the big whiffs.

Butcher was the absolute no-brainer/non-negotiable pick at #8, what with his stock rising as high as #1 prior to his hip issues.

Talia was considered to be the #1 KPD in that draft, and Carlisle wasn’t far behind, with the usual “he’ll probably play forward as well!” tantalisation.

Choc fell in love with Andrew Moore whose draft stock went through the roof after clowning fellow highly-rated prospect Gary Rohan, and even playing CHF for Vic Metro (#1 at the U18 Champs for contested marks!).

He also tested through the roof at the combine, at a time when Ryan O’Keefe was the greatest thing since sliced bread as the midfield-forward hybrid (David King’s contemporary ‘striker’ role) was just coming into vogue.

And obviously, we all know what happened with Pittard. Who charmed Choc in the interview with his intelligence and footy IQ despite looking like Olive Oyl. Easily the least defensible of the three, with a host of Hall Of Famers still on the board.

Id almost guarantee his convo with Jonas revolved around this maybe being our last home game of the year.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Contested Marx]

What do you put the turnaround in form to Kenny?

Ken, how come the tem isn't performing right now?

Ken, you lost the prelim by 15 goals, what happened?

It's funny because it's true

 

[EskimoPAFC]

In the presser yesterday with TJ, he said Tommy was one of the two captains in his time at Port. This guy's stupidity is boundless.

One of three? Dougal, Tom, Travis?

Or are you including the half/no captain disaster of 2019? I'd say even Ken wants to try to forget that ever happened at this point.

 

[Janus]

Do you accept that regardless of anything else that's happened in the past 15 years, we can and should win the flag this year?

You always have to qualify everything with things that are out of the control of the team e.g. injuries. How are guys like Dixon, McKenzie and Lycett going to return for finals? Is the issue with Marshall that is affecting his kicking going to be right?

That being said, there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't win the flag this year. Said when watching the St Kilda game live that there was something different about this team compared to previous iterations, and there is no team in the top four where I would go '**** I hope we don't play them because they are so much better than us'. I mean, if we had our full squad against Geelong we would have completely destroyed them at their own shitheap and would still be second favourite for the flag, regardless of what happened against Carlton and Adelaide.

I'm pleased with the fact that both Rozee and Butters have been pretty consistent this year, and that Horne-Francis seems to be going to another level the closer we get to finals. People have to remember that he's 20 years old has done probably 1.5 AFL preseasons so his fade out for a few weeks was to be expected.

But if we don't win it this year, you address the deficiencies in your list as best as you can and sack up and go again next year. The ride never ends.

The shitty drafting of Ollie Wines, Chad Wingard, Hamish Hartlett, Matt Broadbent, Jackson Trengove lol. Turn it up.

I’ll give you 2009 apart from Butcher. He was the right choice considering Tredrea was close to the end, we just mismanaged the bejeezus out of him. But we absolutely should’ve done better with the next two picks and snagged at least one of Gunston or Talia or Gawn too.

We only had middling picks in 2010 so this one’s a bit meh. The only glaring mistake was picking Jacobs over Lycett who was right under our nose. Can’t blame lack of resources for that one.

Point is one sub par draft doesn’t derail your premiership aspirations for a decade plus. We had enough quality to contend.

We beat the Hawks in 2014.

We beat the Tigers in 2020.

We beat the Bulldogs in 2021.

Just not when it counted.

It's not about the first round draft picks our high second round draft picks.

2009 - Butcher was the 'right' call in as much that we needed a key forward, that's true. The other two could have been two of Talia, Carlisle, Gunston, Gawn, Reid, Jetta or Fyfe if we had a decent drafting network.

2010 - we had 'middling picks' because of the introduction of Gold Coast, who took the best 12 17 year olds in the country the year before and then took Picks 1, 2, 3 7, 9, 10, 11 and 13 before we got our pick. Plug McKenzie, Shaw, Matera, Russell, Nicholls, Weller, Keath, Swallow, Bennell, Day, Caddy, Prestia, Gorringe, Lynch and Tape back into the draft and see if we pick Jacobs with Pick 16 still, or Newton and Young with 35 and 36.

2011 - plug Cameron, Shiel, Treloar, Bugg, Wilson, Patton, Coniglio, Tyson, Hoskin-Elliott, Buntine, Haynes, Tomlinson, Sumner, Greene, Adams and Smith back into the draft and see if we end up with Ah Chee and Blee with Picks 45 and 51.

It was a three year period, when Port was at it's absolute lowest, where we completely screwed the pooch. 2008-2014 we needed just two more decent players and we could have won the flag in 2014.

2015-2021 was the next period - when we had guys like Ebert, Hartlett, Gray, Wines and Westhoff running around in 2020 and combined them with Rozee, Butters, Duursma and Georgiades we again were close, but we didn't have the explosive midfielder (Horne-Francis) or the intercept defender (Aliir) that was needed to go to the next level.

Winning home and away games is not the same as winning finals games. And winning elimination finals/semi-finals/qualifying finals is not the same as winning a preliminary final. The standard goes up exponentially, and in both 2014, 2020 and 2021 our team wasn't at the standard required to progress.

 

[sobrave]

In the presser yesterday with TJ, he said Tommy was one of the two captains in his time at Port. This guy's stupidity is boundless.

He's been around that long he can't even remember the co captains debacle that he himself invented

Also you have the chairman and CEO say that last year didn't actually happen because we're gonna be top 4 three years in a row.

No wonder they like him when they ignore all the bad stuff lol

Don't judge me on me losses, judge me on me wins

 

[tribey]

Fyfe

He looked like Josh Bootsma with a set shot on par with Butcher’s.

If you’d told Freo he’d turn out be NAT FYFE even they’d have laughed.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

He looked like Josh Bootsma with a set shot on par with Butcher’s.

If you’d told Freo he’d turn out be NAT FYFE even they’d have laughed.

I think I remember one of our recruiters (or another, I'm not sure) saying they went and saw a game where Fyfe kicked 8 and looked like a surefire superstar, but then the next game he only got four touches.

It's hard to take the risk with a top 10 pick on inconsistency like that.

Always had a vice-like grip though.

 

[bomberclifford]

Off the back of Richardson’s interview tour claiming “three top-4 finishes in a row!”,

For a club which claims to make important personnel decisions based on ‘facts’, it’s a touch concerning the CEO and head coach don’t seem to be on top of them.

Chasing Greatness!
3 Premierships* in 5** years!
100k*** Members****!


*May include top 4 finishes.
**Excluding years we don't make finals.
***Allowable variance of +/- 35%
****May not include actual human members.
Does not include dealer and on road costs.
T&C's apply.

 

[tribey]

I think I remember one of our recruiters (or another, I'm not sure) saying they went and saw a game where Fyfe kicked 8 and looked like a surefire superstar, but then the next game he only got four touches.

It's hard to take the risk with a top 10 pick on inconsistency like that.

Always had a vice-like grip though.

Absolutely. And it’s not like Choco hadn’t been burned like that before.

After being into Lenny Hayes all year — to the point where he was convinced we were drafting him — Michael Stevens went absolutely HAM in the 1998 TAC Cup GF, basically looking like a perfect clone of his decorated brother.

The subsequent leapfrogging of Lenny on Chris Pelchen’s Big Board turned out to be suboptimal.

 

[Pappagallo]

You always have to qualify everything with things that are out of the control of the team e.g. injuries. How are guys like Dixon, McKenzie and Lycett going to return for finals? Is the issue with Marshall that is affecting his kicking going to be right?

That being said, there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't win the flag this year. Said when watching the St Kilda game live that there was something different about this team compared to previous iterations, and there is no team in the top four where I would go '* I hope we don't play them because they are so much better than us'. I mean, if we had our full squad against Geelong we would have completely destroyed them at their own shitheap and would still be second favourite for the flag, regardless of what happened against Carlton and Adelaide.

I'm pleased with the fact that both Rozee and Butters have been pretty consistent this year, and that Horne-Francis seems to be going to another level the closer we get to finals. People have to remember that he's 20 years old has done probably 1.5 AFL preseasons so his fade out for a few weeks was to be expected.

But if we don't win it this year, you address the deficiencies in your list as best as you can and sack up and go again next year. The ride never ends.


It's not about the first round draft picks our high second round draft picks.

2009 - Butcher was the 'right' call in as much that we needed a key forward, that's true. The other two could have been two of Talia, Carlisle, Gunston, Gawn, Reid, Jetta or Fyfe if we had a decent drafting network.

2010 - we had 'middling picks' because of the introduction of Gold Coast, who took the best 12 17 year olds in the country the year before and then took Picks 1, 2, 3 7, 9, 10, 11 and 13 before we got our pick. Plug McKenzie, Shaw, Matera, Russell, Nicholls, Weller, Keath, Swallow, Bennell, Day, Caddy, Prestia, Gorringe, Lynch and Tape back into the draft and see if we pick Jacobs with Pick 16 still, or Newton and Young with 35 and 36.

2011 - plug Cameron, Shiel, Treloar, Bugg, Wilson, Patton, Coniglio, Tyson, Hoskin-Elliott, Buntine, Haynes, Tomlinson, Sumner, Greene, Adams and Smith back into the draft and see if we end up with Ah Chee and Blee with Picks 45 and 51.

It was a three year period, when Port was at it's absolute lowest, where we completely screwed the pooch. 2008-2014 we needed just two more decent players and we could have won the flag in 2014.

2015-2021 was the next period - when we had guys like Ebert, Hartlett, Gray, Wines and Westhoff running around in 2020 and combined them with Rozee, Butters, Duursma and Georgiades we again were close, but we didn't have the explosive midfielder (Horne-Francis) or the intercept defender (Aliir) that was needed to go to the next level.

Winning home and away games is not the same as winning finals games. And winning elimination finals/semi-finals/qualifying finals is not the same as winning a preliminary final. The standard goes up exponentially, and in both 2014, 2020 and 2021 our team wasn't at the standard required to progress.

If GC/GWS weren’t around we might’ve had an extra good player or two above Aaron Young’s standard, but every other club would’ve as well.

It’s a zero sum game.

Also Butcher was considered the best KPF by a mile and touted as a potential Pick 1 at one point. The others have proven to be better in hindsight but at the time they weren’t as highly rated, by every club, as evidenced by their draft position. Absolutely nothing to do with our scouting resources.

 

[Janus]

If GC/GWS weren’t around we might’ve had an extra good player or two above Aaron Young’s standard, but every other club would’ve as well.

It’s a zero sum game.

That's why it's not just isolated to the inclusion of GWS/GC. You also have to factor in the gutting of our scouting network from 2008 onward in order to save money - the stupidest place a club could ever hope to save money on. Then add the introduction of free agency and pick trading that enabled Victorian clubs to get good players for cheap due to the inevitable salary cap constraints that both Gold Coast and Greater Western Sydney had.

 

[Fizzler]

The fact this thread is halfway through part 9 even with the discussion spilling elsewhere is a testament to both Hinkley and the club’s mediocrity and our dedication to the cause.

 

[Steve Dore]

...

This is a professional AFL coach that doesn't understand that by finishing top 4 he is guaranteed at least 1 home final.

How can you be an AFL coach and not understand such a basic fact?

...

Hinkley has stated that playing finals is overrated so of course he doesn't understand how they work.

 

[Fizzler]

One of three? Dougal, Tom, Travis?

Or are you including the half/no captain disaster of 2019? I'd say even Ken wants to try to forget that ever happened at this point.

Cassisi from 09-12. If you count Dougal and Ollie as well as Trav and Tom you get 5.

 

[pstew2dstew]

Do you accept that regardless of anything else that's happened in the past 15 years, we can and should win the flag this year?

If Hinks chokes this it's going to be a long 2 years. The only thing keeping my sanity is the truth about this playing list. Yes it has its holes but talent wise it is the best that hinks has had imo.

Minimum GF with this list.

 

[Tibbs]

Cassisi from 09-12. If you count Dougal and Ollie as well as Trav and Tom you get 5.

Cassisi never captained of the club under Hinkley. He stepped down as captain in Hinkley's first pre-season.