Coach Alastair Clarkson IV - HFC Racism Investigation Discussion

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Back One Out said:
1. culpability: responsibility for a fault or wrong; blame

"posting in good faith"... WTF are you on about? Clarkson is the guy who stands accused. He is the guy who has already been publicly hanged, drawn and quartered by the media and everyone who read Russell Jackson's hit piece on abc.com

I've given you my own personal opinion, for whatever it's worth. But the courts will decide Clarkson's culpability in this matter.

Lord knows why you take umbrage at my use iof the word "culpability". :rolleyes:



2. I'm not pretending Kennett didn't upset the Riolis. WTF? That's already been well-established. It's the very reason why Hawthorn decided to conduct their own internal inquiry into the experiences of every past and present aboriginal player or employee.

Why are you trying to argue with me about this peripheral shit anyway? The Riolis beef with Jeff Kennett is not going to be heard in the high court. They're not suing Hawthorn over his stupid remark about ripped jeans. The Riolis were there in the mediation process to lend their moral support to the players in question.

Quit crapping on about Kennett. He is a massive prick. But he is not involved in this court matter.



3. Clarkson, Fagan and Birt are in the crosshairs... because of what the players allege they did. So if we're to believe the players, Clarkson, Fagan and Birt placed themselves there. Nobody else. But like Many North fans, you want to skip over that rather important bit and blame Hawthorn for conducting a inquiry which gave rise to these accusations.

Fair enough, get angry at the nuffs working at Hawthorn for being a bunch of naive clowns and using Binmada/Phil Egan. It would've been a hell of a lot better for Clarkson and North Melbourne if we got Dermie and Dipper to do the inquiry instead and just swept everything under the rug.

But what's done is done. It can't be undone. Accusations were made. The accusations were leakd by Phil Egan to the ABC journo, Russell Jackson. And now those accusations will probably be tested in court.

For you North folks, your entire focus on the matter has been Hawthorn's supposed mishandling of the situation. It's a pretty selfish, blinkered and narrow-focused viewpoint. It's just one aspect of the story. You don't seem to realise this matter is WAY bigger than that. But you can keep pretending it isn't.
Click to expand...

1. There is also a legal definition of culpability ...
You initiated the discussion by bemoaning North supporters' "angle" and how to you it was inexplicable. I explained our "angle", which was based on fallout we copped through no fault of our own due to Clarkson, Fagan and Burt being scapegoated for a more broad-based pattern of behaviour at your club. Good faith would be to acknowledge we do have a point in being annoyed by this.

Using the term culpability betrays your bias - you have already decided Clarkson's guilt. Good faith?

2. OK, you haven't pretended Kennett didn't upset the Riolis, but you don't acknowledge the implications of excluding this from the allegations being investigated. Indeed, you said "Sure, It would've been nicer for you guys if Hawthorn had just ignored Cyril & his wife's aggrievement and we had not bothered to ask our past indigenous players to come forward. But that's what we did. Well-intentioned, but naive. It can't be undone."

This suggests that you think this aggrievement was the basis for the investigation, which you club did in a "well intentioned" way. (Except for the bits the investigation ignored, like the literal cause of that aggrievement).

This is why I'm "trying to argue with me about this peripheral shit anyway". Because in your original post, it was the catalyst for the whole shitshow. Essentially the opposite of peripheral.

Do you still not get why I'm crapping on about Kennett? He escaped exactly what Clarkson, Fagan and Burt have been put through, despite being demonstrably guilty of what has been alleged against them.

3. So yes, the three "are in the crosshairs ... because of what the players allege they did". My question remains as to why weren't allegations against others included? Elements of the allegations have to be questionable on that basis alone, without even considering that taint of Egan author and cousin Egan aggrieved complainant.
 
Latest article this morning has suggested a retired federal judge and top Melbourne Law firm found ‘a startling lack of evidence ‘ and that grave concerns about the basis of the claims.

I will say it again, absolutely disgraceful how Clarkson, Fagan and Burt have been treated by the football media and journalists at the time.
 

Exclusive

Hawthorn racism investigation: The secret reports and what really happened​

Exactly one year ago, on May 30, 2023, the AFL’s Hawthorn racism investigation was shut down. Today, MICHAEL WARNER reveals what really happened with Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt.
Michael Warner



5 min read
May 30, 2024 - 5:00AM
News Corp Australia Sports Newsroom




Two secret reports commissioned by the AFL into the Hawthorn racism scandal found “a startling lack of evidence” in the cases alleged against Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt.

The separate reports, authored by a retired Federal Court judge and a top Melbourne law firm, concluded that the gravest allegation – that an Indigenous player and his partner were pressured to terminate a pregnancy – could not be substantiated.

A claim that the Hawks had demanded the separation of another First Nations family for the sake of the player’s career was also considered to be “lacking in evidence”.

The two reports – one by Justice John Middleton and the other by Gordon Legal – found that there was “no basis whatsoever” to support suggestions a subculture of racism had existed at Hawthorn during the club’s golden premiership era of 2008-15 or that the three accused club officials had behaved in anything other than a “caring” way for their players.

The AFL Commission relied upon the reports to terminate the four-person independent investigation panel led by Bernard Quinn KC, which had failed to make any findings eight months after being established following the leaking of the Hawthorn “cultural safety review” in grand final week 2022.


The Hawks remain under pressure to make compensation payments to the First Nations families and the coaches following mediation in the Australian Human Rights Commission.

But the Herald Sun can reveal Justice Middleton and Gordon Legal, led by former Western Bulldogs president Peter Gordon, presented their findings to the AFL last May after being granted access to all of the evidence gathered by the Quinn panel.

The Gordon Legal report called for an immediate end to the AFL probe and asserted that there was “no sufficient evidence” to substantiate the vast majority of the claims made against the former Hawks trio.
Justice Middleton concurred with Gordon Legal’s assessment of the case and reiterated that the league should abandon the panel and had legal grounds to do so.

In the original ABC story that sparked the scandal, a former Hawks player called “Ian” alleged a group of coaches, including Clarkson and Fagan, ushered him into an office where he was urged to have his partner’s pregnancy aborted.

“Clarkson just leaned over me and demanded that I needed to get rid of my unborn child and my partner,” Ian said.

“I was then manipulated and convinced to remove my SIM card from my phone, so there was no further contact between my family and me.

“He told me to kill my unborn kid.”

Clarkson has always vehemently denied the allegations made against him.



The AFL commissioned the secret reports after the Quinn-led panel had become bogged down in acrimonious legal debate.

It can be revealed the racism investigation turned on its head on the eve of Christmas 2022 when lawyers for the accused parties received detailed statements from the First Nations complainants – the first time the claims could be cross-checked against the contents of the Hawthorn review authored by Indigenous consultant Phil Egan.

Many of the lawyers who received the statements were shocked by the lack of detail and the inconsistencies surrounding the most serious allegations.

“There were major gaps in the material,” one figure said.

When the probe recommenced in January last year, lawyers for Clarkson, Fagan and Burt demanded access to internal Hawthorn records they believed would help clear the trio of wrongdoing, but high-profile lawyer Leon Zwier, who continues to act for four of the Indigenous families, argued that their release would be a breach of his clients’ privacy.

“Zwier seemed to believe he should be the only lawyer who got to see them,” a source close to the saga said.

“Procedural fairness appeared to be a one-way street.”

Threats of legal action mounted against the AFL, which was ultimately responsible for the panel, despite the league’s own frustrations at the slow pace of the investigation process.

Genuine concerns over the decline of Clarkson’s mental health also became a factor.

Among the mountains of material at the centre of the probe was an interview the AFL panel conducted with retired Hawthorn Indigenous great Shaun Burgoyne, which was described as “a powerful endorsement of his old coach and club in the period under question”.


Tensions reached breaking point when Zwier failed to show up at a secret meeting between all parties at Marvel Stadium on May 15 last year – the same week Clarkson took a leave of absence from the game and launched a scathing attack on the investigations process.

Fagan’s lawyers had flown from Brisbane for the Marvel meeting, adding fuel to a raging fire.

“We were told all day he was about to arrive, but we all left after 6pm,” one attendee said.

“It’s hard to believe it wasn’t deliberate. No explanation was ever given.

“The next thing we heard was that Zwier wanted a mediation in Adelaide where he would be the only lawyer present.”

None of the other parties understood why Adelaide had been suggested as a venue for mediation, a city with no connection to any of the affected parties or events, and the proposal was rejected.

The racism crisis came to a head on May 28 last year when major law firm Clayton Utz, representing Fagan, threatened a Supreme Court injunction against the AFL process.

The league remained concerned about “blowback” in shutting down the inquiry, but were advised that the public and the media had shifted and become more sympathetic to the plight of Clarkson and Fagan.

At a snap Tuesday night press conference on May 30, AFL boss Gillon McLachlan announced the panel’s probe had been wound up and that the league had struck a deal with lawyers for the Indigenous players in which “no adverse findings have been made against any of the individuals against whom allegations have been made”.

No mention of the existence of the Middleton or Gordon Legal reports was made by the AFL at the time.

Egan was arrested and charged by financial crime squad detectives after the AFL probe had begun – over claims he fraudulently obtained hundreds of thousands of dollars from the Murray Valley Aboriginal Co-operative – while his past association with one of the four panellists emerged as another point of contention.

Egan is due to face a committal hearing in August.

There were also concerns that members of the AFL panel were seeking to broaden its scope to explore other claims of racism within the game.

Despite conducting eight months of work, the Quinn panel made no findings and failed to produce its own report.

Multiple parties said the establishment of a “diverse, independent panel” to investigate the claims – instead of private arbitration overseen by a retired, eminent judge – was the AFL’s critical error.

​

“They chose the wrong model,” one legal figure has said. “It was the sliding doors moment – a massive error of judgement that prolonged the misery for all. It became a runaway train.”

Justice Middleton, who presided over the 2014 Essendon-ASADA Federal Court case, is now a senior adviser at the AFL’s law firm DLA Piper.

Gordon Legal was engaged to act as the AFL’s counsel a week after the scandal erupted, helping draft the original terms of reference for the panel’s probe.
 
Last edited:

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I find it really annoying that we hear umpires being insulted by some players and they let it go then other times come down super hard. They’re not calling any of that shot against Essendon or the z bombers or westcoast when they’re playing a subi. But they’ll call that shit on a Sunday afternoon at 4.40 pm.
 
giantroo said:

Exclusive

Hawthorn racism investigation: The secret reports and what really happened​

Exactly one year ago, on May 30, 2023, the AFL’s Hawthorn racism investigation was shut down. Today, MICHAEL WARNER reveals what really happened with Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt.
Michael Warner



5 min read
May 30, 2024 - 5:00AM
News Corp Australia Sports Newsroom




Two secret reports commissioned by the AFL into the Hawthorn racism scandal found “a startling lack of evidence” in the cases alleged against Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt.

The separate reports, authored by a retired Federal Court judge and a top Melbourne law firm, concluded that the gravest allegation – that an Indigenous player and his partner were pressured to terminate a pregnancy – could not be substantiated.

A claim that the Hawks had demanded the separation of another First Nations family for the sake of the player’s career was also considered to be “lacking in evidence”.

The two reports – one by Justice John Middleton and the other by Gordon Legal – found that there was “no basis whatsoever” to support suggestions a subculture of racism had existed at Hawthorn during the club’s golden premiership era of 2008-15 or that the three accused club officials had behaved in anything other than a “caring” way for their players.

The AFL Commission relied upon the reports to terminate the four-person independent investigation panel led by Bernard Quinn KC, which had failed to make any findings eight months after being established following the leaking of the Hawthorn “cultural safety review” in grand final week 2022.


The Hawks remain under pressure to make compensation payments to the First Nations families and the coaches following mediation in the Australian Human Rights Commission.

But the Herald Sun can reveal Justice Middleton and Gordon Legal, led by former Western Bulldogs president Peter Gordon, presented their findings to the AFL last May after being granted access to all of the evidence gathered by the Quinn panel.

The Gordon Legal report called for an immediate end to the AFL probe and asserted that there was “no sufficient evidence” to substantiate the vast majority of the claims made against the former Hawks trio.
Justice Middleton concurred with Gordon Legal’s assessment of the case and reiterated that the league should abandon the panel and had legal grounds to do so.

In the original ABC story that sparked the scandal, a former Hawks player called “Ian” alleged a group of coaches, including Clarkson and Fagan, ushered him into an office where he was urged to have his partner’s pregnancy aborted.

“Clarkson just leaned over me and demanded that I needed to get rid of my unborn child and my partner,” Ian said.

“I was then manipulated and convinced to remove my SIM card from my phone, so there was no further contact between my family and me.

“He told me to kill my unborn kid.”

Clarkson has always vehemently denied the allegations made against him.



The AFL commissioned the secret reports after the Quinn-led panel had become bogged down in acrimonious legal debate.

It can be revealed the racism investigation turned on its head on the eve of Christmas 2022 when lawyers for the accused parties received detailed statements from the First Nations complainants – the first time the claims could be cross-checked against the contents of the Hawthorn review authored by Indigenous consultant Phil Egan.

Many of the lawyers who received the statements were shocked by the lack of detail and the inconsistencies surrounding the most serious allegations.

“There were major gaps in the material,” one figure said.

When the probe recommenced in January last year, lawyers for Clarkson, Fagan and Burt demanded access to internal Hawthorn records they believed would help clear the trio of wrongdoing, but high-profile lawyer Leon Zwier, who continues to act for four of the Indigenous families, argued that their release would be a breach of his clients’ privacy.

“Zwier seemed to believe he should be the only lawyer who got to see them,” a source close to the saga said.

“Procedural fairness appeared to be a one-way street.”

Threats of legal action mounted against the AFL, which was ultimately responsible for the panel, despite the league’s own frustrations at the slow pace of the investigation process.

Genuine concerns over the decline of Clarkson’s mental health also became a factor.

Among the mountains of material at the centre of the probe was an interview the AFL panel conducted with retired Hawthorn Indigenous great Shaun Burgoyne, which was described as “a powerful endorsement of his old coach and club in the period under question”.


Tensions reached breaking point when Zwier failed to show up at a secret meeting between all parties at Marvel Stadium on May 15 last year – the same week Clarkson took a leave of absence from the game and launched a scathing attack on the investigations process.

Fagan’s lawyers had flown from Brisbane for the Marvel meeting, adding fuel to a raging fire.

“We were told all day he was about to arrive, but we all left after 6pm,” one attendee said.

“It’s hard to believe it wasn’t deliberate. No explanation was ever given.

“The next thing we heard was that Zwier wanted a mediation in Adelaide where he would be the only lawyer present.”

None of the other parties understood why Adelaide had been suggested as a venue for mediation, a city with no connection to any of the affected parties or events, and the proposal was rejected.

The racism crisis came to a head on May 28 last year when major law firm Clayton Utz, representing Fagan, threatened a Supreme Court injunction against the AFL process.

The league remained concerned about “blowback” in shutting down the inquiry, but were advised that the public and the media had shifted and become more sympathetic to the plight of Clarkson and Fagan.

At a snap Tuesday night press conference on May 30, AFL boss Gillon McLachlan announced the panel’s probe had been wound up and that the league had struck a deal with lawyers for the Indigenous players in which “no adverse findings have been made against any of the individuals against whom allegations have been made”.

No mention of the existence of the Middleton or Gordon Legal reports was made by the AFL at the time.

Egan was arrested and charged by financial crime squad detectives after the AFL probe had begun – over claims he fraudulently obtained hundreds of thousands of dollars from the Murray Valley Aboriginal Co-operative – while his past association with one of the four panellists emerged as another point of contention.

Egan is due to face a committal hearing in August.

There were also concerns that members of the AFL panel were seeking to broaden its scope to explore other claims of racism within the game.

Despite conducting eight months of work, the Quinn panel made no findings and failed to produce its own report.

Multiple parties said the establishment of a “diverse, independent panel” to investigate the claims – instead of private arbitration overseen by a retired, eminent judge – was the AFL’s critical error.

​

“They chose the wrong model,” one legal figure has said. “It was the sliding doors moment – a massive error of judgement that prolonged the misery for all. It became a runaway train.”

Justice Middleton, who presided over the 2014 Essendon-ASADA Federal Court case, is now a senior adviser at the AFL’s law firm DLA Piper.

Gordon Legal was engaged to act as the AFL’s counsel a week after the scandal erupted, helping draft the original terms of reference for the panel’s probe.
Click to expand...
Disgraceful treatment of Clarko and co!!
 
giantroo said:
Click to expand...


If only the investigation covered the guy whose racist comments led to a champion player retiring prematurely, kicking off the whole shitshow.
 
Back One Out said:
The accusations, the mediation talks and the impending court action has Clarkson, Fagan and Birt in the crosshairs. Not Jeff Kennett. Not Luke Hodge nor Sam Mitchell. Not Leigh Matthews, Don Scott or the ghost of John Kennedy snr. Any action taken by players against Hawthorn is because of what Clarkson, Fagan and Birt allegedy did (and the failure of our club leaders to keep them in check and by not having protocols in place to prevent this sort of stuff. Not that any other AFL club did.)
Click to expand...

Cam Matthews and Mark Evans too.
 

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giantroo said:

Exclusive

Hawthorn racism investigation: The secret reports and what really happened​

Exactly one year ago, on May 30, 2023, the AFL’s Hawthorn racism investigation was shut down. Today, MICHAEL WARNER reveals what really happened with Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt.
Michael Warner



5 min read
May 30, 2024 - 5:00AM
News Corp Australia Sports Newsroom




Two secret reports commissioned by the AFL into the Hawthorn racism scandal found “a startling lack of evidence” in the cases alleged against Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt.

The separate reports, authored by a retired Federal Court judge and a top Melbourne law firm, concluded that the gravest allegation – that an Indigenous player and his partner were pressured to terminate a pregnancy – could not be substantiated.

A claim that the Hawks had demanded the separation of another First Nations family for the sake of the player’s career was also considered to be “lacking in evidence”.

The two reports – one by Justice John Middleton and the other by Gordon Legal – found that there was “no basis whatsoever” to support suggestions a subculture of racism had existed at Hawthorn during the club’s golden premiership era of 2008-15 or that the three accused club officials had behaved in anything other than a “caring” way for their players.

The AFL Commission relied upon the reports to terminate the four-person independent investigation panel led by Bernard Quinn KC, which had failed to make any findings eight months after being established following the leaking of the Hawthorn “cultural safety review” in grand final week 2022.


The Hawks remain under pressure to make compensation payments to the First Nations families and the coaches following mediation in the Australian Human Rights Commission.

But the Herald Sun can reveal Justice Middleton and Gordon Legal, led by former Western Bulldogs president Peter Gordon, presented their findings to the AFL last May after being granted access to all of the evidence gathered by the Quinn panel.

The Gordon Legal report called for an immediate end to the AFL probe and asserted that there was “no sufficient evidence” to substantiate the vast majority of the claims made against the former Hawks trio.
Justice Middleton concurred with Gordon Legal’s assessment of the case and reiterated that the league should abandon the panel and had legal grounds to do so.

In the original ABC story that sparked the scandal, a former Hawks player called “Ian” alleged a group of coaches, including Clarkson and Fagan, ushered him into an office where he was urged to have his partner’s pregnancy aborted.

“Clarkson just leaned over me and demanded that I needed to get rid of my unborn child and my partner,” Ian said.

“I was then manipulated and convinced to remove my SIM card from my phone, so there was no further contact between my family and me.

“He told me to kill my unborn kid.”

Clarkson has always vehemently denied the allegations made against him.



The AFL commissioned the secret reports after the Quinn-led panel had become bogged down in acrimonious legal debate.

It can be revealed the racism investigation turned on its head on the eve of Christmas 2022 when lawyers for the accused parties received detailed statements from the First Nations complainants – the first time the claims could be cross-checked against the contents of the Hawthorn review authored by Indigenous consultant Phil Egan.

Many of the lawyers who received the statements were shocked by the lack of detail and the inconsistencies surrounding the most serious allegations.

“There were major gaps in the material,” one figure said.

When the probe recommenced in January last year, lawyers for Clarkson, Fagan and Burt demanded access to internal Hawthorn records they believed would help clear the trio of wrongdoing, but high-profile lawyer Leon Zwier, who continues to act for four of the Indigenous families, argued that their release would be a breach of his clients’ privacy.

“Zwier seemed to believe he should be the only lawyer who got to see them,” a source close to the saga said.

“Procedural fairness appeared to be a one-way street.”

Threats of legal action mounted against the AFL, which was ultimately responsible for the panel, despite the league’s own frustrations at the slow pace of the investigation process.

Genuine concerns over the decline of Clarkson’s mental health also became a factor.

Among the mountains of material at the centre of the probe was an interview the AFL panel conducted with retired Hawthorn Indigenous great Shaun Burgoyne, which was described as “a powerful endorsement of his old coach and club in the period under question”.


Tensions reached breaking point when Zwier failed to show up at a secret meeting between all parties at Marvel Stadium on May 15 last year – the same week Clarkson took a leave of absence from the game and launched a scathing attack on the investigations process.

Fagan’s lawyers had flown from Brisbane for the Marvel meeting, adding fuel to a raging fire.

“We were told all day he was about to arrive, but we all left after 6pm,” one attendee said.

“It’s hard to believe it wasn’t deliberate. No explanation was ever given.

“The next thing we heard was that Zwier wanted a mediation in Adelaide where he would be the only lawyer present.”

None of the other parties understood why Adelaide had been suggested as a venue for mediation, a city with no connection to any of the affected parties or events, and the proposal was rejected.

The racism crisis came to a head on May 28 last year when major law firm Clayton Utz, representing Fagan, threatened a Supreme Court injunction against the AFL process.

The league remained concerned about “blowback” in shutting down the inquiry, but were advised that the public and the media had shifted and become more sympathetic to the plight of Clarkson and Fagan.

At a snap Tuesday night press conference on May 30, AFL boss Gillon McLachlan announced the panel’s probe had been wound up and that the league had struck a deal with lawyers for the Indigenous players in which “no adverse findings have been made against any of the individuals against whom allegations have been made”.

No mention of the existence of the Middleton or Gordon Legal reports was made by the AFL at the time.

Egan was arrested and charged by financial crime squad detectives after the AFL probe had begun – over claims he fraudulently obtained hundreds of thousands of dollars from the Murray Valley Aboriginal Co-operative – while his past association with one of the four panellists emerged as another point of contention.

Egan is due to face a committal hearing in August.

There were also concerns that members of the AFL panel were seeking to broaden its scope to explore other claims of racism within the game.

Despite conducting eight months of work, the Quinn panel made no findings and failed to produce its own report.

Multiple parties said the establishment of a “diverse, independent panel” to investigate the claims – instead of private arbitration overseen by a retired, eminent judge – was the AFL’s critical error.

​

“They chose the wrong model,” one legal figure has said. “It was the sliding doors moment – a massive error of judgement that prolonged the misery for all. It became a runaway train.”

Justice Middleton, who presided over the 2014 Essendon-ASADA Federal Court case, is now a senior adviser at the AFL’s law firm DLA Piper.

Gordon Legal was engaged to act as the AFL’s counsel a week after the scandal erupted, helping draft the original terms of reference for the panel’s probe.
Click to expand...
Andy maher going for another run? Has he spoken to his wife about this?
 
ferball said:
I know right. WTF???
Click to expand...

Feels like its a giant bluff now because he knows he doesn't have anything that will stand up in court, just brinksmanship to try and extract what he can from Hawthorn and the AFL (with Clako and Fagan as collateral damage)

Compare and contrast with Phillip and Jim who have gone straight to court and named names.
 
LuvtheKangas said:
If only the investigation covered the guy whose racist comments led to a champion player retiring prematurely, kicking off the whole shitshow.
Click to expand...
In Kennets defence ( and iam far from a fan of his) its a long bow to suggest the published comments were racist in nature, insensitive possibly, stupid, definitely,

I sincerely hope the basis of cyrils action is based on something far more appropriate than a throw away line based on ones fashion choice? Obviously the other accusers issues must be of a more serious nature but they don't seem to be the parties front and square, possibly due to their lower profiles as footballers given i had never even heard of them before the accusations came to light????
 
The Warlord said:
Feels like its a giant bluff now because he knows he doesn't have anything that will stand up in court, just brinksmanship to try and extract what he can from Hawthorn and the AFL (with Clako and Fagan as collateral damage)

Compare and contrast with Phillip and Jim who have gone straight to court and named names.
Click to expand...
Anyone who attended games in the 80s 100% knows as fact that Jim and Phil WERE racially mistreated, its undisputed fact. would audiences treat the Daicos Brothers who are footballing wise probably the closest thing to a talented pair of brothers the same way? Of course not.
 
koshari said:
Anyone who attended games in the 80s 100% knows as fact that Jim and Phil WERE racially mistreated, its undisputed fact. would audiences treat the Daicos Brothers who are footballing wise probably the closest thing to a talented pair of brothers the same way? Of course not.
Click to expand...
I was there - every, single game. No doubt - I heard it - I saw it happen. Not just Jim and Phil. Any indigenous player of that era. Can just remember Bertie Johnson in the late 60s copping heaps. Sadly, at the time, it was almost expected and accepted. Thankfully every decade we have improved from there.
 
koshari said:
Anyone who attended games in the 80s 100% knows as fact that Jim and Phil WERE racially mistreated, its undisputed fact. would audiences treat the Daicos Brothers who are footballing wise probably the closest thing to a talented pair of brothers the same way? Of course not.
Click to expand...
Absolutely right appalling treatment off and on the field, particularly Jimmy
 
gokangas said:
I was there - every, single game. No doubt - I heard it - I saw it happen. Not just Jim and Phil. Any indigenous player of that era. Can just remember Bertie Johnson in the late 60s copping heaps. Sadly, at the time, it was almost expected and accepted. Thankfully every decade we have improved from there.
Click to expand...
Not old enough to know Bertie Johnson but I'd imagine Robbie Muir was the most racially abused player ever.
 

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