List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[stavro#4]

Stav… read what I wrote, of course they are ahead of ours, ours is pure shit, I’m not arguing that point. I’m also not saying to do nothing with ours, of course we need to improve.

The eagles best player wasn’t a mid, their gameplan didn’t revolve around a dominant midfield, they had a competitive midfield that worked hard (especially defensively). They had elite forwards and the best intercept defender, maybe ever?

If you have the best defence and a very very good offence then your midfield just needs to be competitive.

Ours isn’t, we need to fix that, but if we trash our defence or forward line to get the best midfield we’re no better off.

The entire premise was just dumb. They are flag winning teams.

Further comparison.

We don’t even have gun intercept backs. We have 2 undersized interceptors and a clumsy giraffe in Howard. We actually need an elite intercept back. (Arie )

Our forwards on paper represent our strongest line and we have the worst midfield in the league delivering the ball.

And across every line. We don’t have a single player damaging enough to exit a stoppage through the front of the pack bar Sinclair.

 

[stavro#4]

Agree .. this method of needing top 5 draft picks to win a Premierships is a myth .... of course highly rated draftees might help but there is no guarantee they work out

Have a look at the Swans current midfield -

Grundy - pick 18
Heeney - pick 18
Gulden - pick 32
Warner - pick 39
Rowbottom - pick 25
McLean - rookie pick

Heeney and gulden were academy picks and Heeney would have gone top 3 in his class

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Heeney and gulden were academy picks and Heeney would have gone top 3 in his class

Correct Heeney was but Gulden wasn't bid on (by Geelong) until pick 32

So 1 top 5 pick who has taken 10 years to make it as a midfield starter

My point still stands

 

[jimmytigs]

Am I the only one that doesn't want to lose Battle? Think that is bad news and you can put the capital R on the "Rebuild" once he walks out that door. Would be shattered - reckon he's as solid and reliable as they come.

my preference is battle stays,logic tells me its not in our control and the decision by the player is probably already made,so you hope he stays,but if not you work on getting the best possible outcome(band 1)totally fail to see why there is so much discussion on it=OUT OF OUR HANDS

 

[Sarcoidevo]

The entire premise was just dumb. They are flag winning teams.

Further comparison.

We don’t even have gun intercept backs. We have 2 undersized interceptors and a clumsy giraffe in Howard. We actually need an elite intercept back. (Arie )

Our forwards on paper represent our strongest line and we have the worst midfield in the league delivering the ball.

And across every line. We don’t have a single player damaging enough to exit a stoppage through the front of the pack bar Sinclair.

The 2 undersized interceptors and the clumsy giraffe were part of the no 1 defence in the league last year ..... and still sit in the top 7 this year for least pts conceded

 

[Sarcoidevo]

my preference is battle stays,logic tells me its not in our control and the decision by the player is probably already made,so you hope he stays,but if not you work on getting the best possible outcome(band 1)totally fail to see why there is so much discussion on it=OUT OF OUR HANDS

How do you work on getting Band 1 compensation when the decision is ultimately out of our hands?

We wanted Band 1 for Gresham .... we didn't get it

 

[jimmytigs]

How do you work on getting Band 1 compensation when the decision is ultimately out of our hands?

We wanted Band 1 for Gresham .... we didn't get it

bad coice of word,you work with whatever we get,band 1 or 2,as it is totally out of our hands,so totally stupid spending so much time and resources fretting over it

 

[stavro#4]

The 2 undersized interceptors and the clumsy giraffe were part of the no 1 defence in the league last year ..... and still sit in the top 7 this year for least pts conceded

That is due to Ross and tactics.

Same trio sat 7th best in 2022. In a side that finished 10th.

We sit 14th and are 7th best defensively. That’s Ross again.

 

[kernelT]

I’m hearing battle will knock back rival bids and is about to re-sign with us for 6 years

#MOTWYW

 

[stavro#4]

Correct Heeney was but Gulden wasn't bid on (by Geelong) until pick 32

So 1 top 5 pick who has taken 10 years to make it as a midfield starter

My point still stands

No. You are talking Rubbish.

Callum Mills pick 3 - is captain and starts in that midfield. Currently injured.

Nick Blakey - went 10 as an academy pick. Was another that should have gone top 3-5 that year. Imagine having him on a wing/HBF.

Thats 3.

How many do we have mate?

 

[stavro#4]

bad coice of word,you work with whatever we get,band 1 or 2,as it is totally out of our hands,so totally stupid spending so much time and resources fretting over it

You could always try up the offer to what is deemed band 1 and see if it gets exceeded.

Which you would imagine already has.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

No. You are talking Rubbish.

Callum Mills pick 3 - is captain and starts in that midfield. Currently injured.

Nick Blakey - went 10 as an academy pick. Was another that should have gone top 3-5 that year. Imagine having him on a wing/HBF.

Thats 3.

How many do we have mate?

Mills hasn't played all year

Blakey plays off half back not midfield

Jake Lloyd - rookie pick

You want to keep going?

 

[Sarcoidevo]

You could always try up the offer to what is deemed band 1 and see if it gets exceeded.

Which you would imagine already has.

I'd imagine we have offered Battle what we think he is worth in terms of fitting in with our future overall salary cap plan

Not a penny more ... not a penny less

 

[stavro#4]

Mills hasn't played all year

Blakey plays off half back not midfield

Jake Lloyd - rookie pick

You want to keep going?

So we exclude Mills because he hasn’t played, like he hasn’t proven his value to them in the decade he has been playing?

Re Nick Blakey - I submit the following evidence to the court.


I rest my case.

 

[stavro#4]

I'd imagine we have offered Battle what we think he is worth in terms of fitting in with our future overall salary cap plan

Not a penny more ... not a penny less

Is that not what I said the other day and in pre season?

I was responding to a hypothetical as to how to support your desired outcome for an unrestricted free agent.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

clude Mills because he hasn’t played, like he hasn’t proven his value to them in the decade he has been playing?

Re Nick Blakey - I submit the following evidence to the court.

View attachment 2011615
I rest my case.

Mills hasn't played a part in the no1 midfield this year

Blakey doesn't and hasnt played midfield all year

 

[stavro#4]

Mills hasn't played a part in the no1 midfield this year

Blakey doesn't and hasnt play midfield all year

The swans have played in Grand finals in (2012 2014) 2016 and 2022.

Mills and Heeney x2
Blakey x1

Along with Braedan Campbell pick 5

All have played midfield minutes in grand final seasons.

There other top 5 pick Logan McDonald was emergency and I think dropped on the big day in 2022.

The only exception was Geelong. But they also recruited 2 of the top 5 players in the league in that time.

Richmond had Martin and Cotchin.

West coast Chris masten

Collingwood Daicos De Goey Pendles

Melbourne Petracca Brayshaw Oliver

Doggies Bont + Macrae / Hunter and Libba FS

 

[Mr_R0b0t]

I understand that. I posted the clip.

But in a season where he has been injured for lengthy periods … twice. I’d rather he actually find form and we stick with Collard or give Hotton a go after 5 goals.

In fairness to Butler, he has lacked match conditioning due to a severely interrupted pre season due to surgery, and we are light on for small forwards particularly a pressure which Butler is

 

[austinnn]

Thanks Stav, appreciate the insight as always. Not stalking you but had a few points...

What’s the point of setting and managing your salary cap if you are going to crumble because you are losing a good … not great player?

How about you answer this question.


If you were offered a top 5 pick for Battle would you trade him?

Back in the day Big Boy McEvoy was considered by many Saints fans including me to be a "good not great" player - and even that was generous. How foolish that opinion looks now. Top five, you say? Still not sure, he's got something which screams future premiership Saints leader and icon to me, call me crazy...

Have you seen our run home?

We're not as good as we were in the first half of last year, but with our best players back, plus Dow and Henry, I fully believe we're not as bad as we were in the middle of last year either. I'd be hugely surprised if we weren't about 5 picks further back by October, sorry to say.

20 OOC. Find the currency.

Either the suns first or this pick need to be targeted.



Would completely change how I draft if we had this and a compo.

(4,5,7)

I have to admit that is pretty tempting. If we DID finish in the bottom four, it would be really hard to not let Josh walk if it were to give us that band one pick.

Am I the only one that doesn't want to lose Battle? Think that is bad news and you can put the capital R on the "Rebuild" once he walks out that door. Would be shattered - reckon he's as solid and reliable as they come.

Definitely not the only one. I'm a strong believer in taking trading risks, I advocated trading Armo, Stuv, Billings, Gresh, Ross and Membrey long before they lost value. I just think in the situation we are now, and Battle being leadership material it would be a poor move from us.

If he gets 900-1m a year. Good on him.

He isn’t worth that much. But what can you do if he makes the most of the opportunity for himself and his family?

Disagree about dollar value, but broadly agree: If we want to keep him, we offer overs. If he gets a better offer than that you just have to be philosophical about these things and make the best of it. Yes, I'd still be offering significant overs to keep him a Saint. But not unlimited overs.

If Hawks or whoever are offering him that much, he must have significant value for them. Ask yourselves why that is and why we don't hold similar value for him. The answer cannot be Arie or Coops, surely?

 

[sasaint]

So again you are endorsing that we tank and not win any more games than we have to

Do you think the coaches and selection committee sit around the selection table and openly talk about tanking and losing games on purpose .... or is just a wink and a nod type thing?

If the aim is to win a second flag, then we have to prioritize getting games into the kids and seeing what players can perform on the big stage. That’s not tanking. That’s doing the hard things.

 

[phantom13]

The entire premise was just dumb. They are flag winning teams.

Further comparison.

We don’t even have gun intercept backs. We have 2 undersized interceptors and a clumsy giraffe in Howard. We actually need an elite intercept back. (Arie )

Our forwards on paper represent our strongest line and we have the worst midfield in the league delivering the ball.

And across every line. We don’t have a single player damaging enough to exit a stoppage through the front of the pack bar Sinclair.

The whole point was that you can win a flag without your midfield being your best line but you and others seemed to have missed that point by thinking I was saying our current midfield was as good as any of the ones I listed, which, again, I never did.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

If the aim is to win a second flag, then we have to prioritize getting games into the kids and seeing what players can perform on the big stage. That’s not tanking. That’s doing the hard things.

Havent we been doing that .... we have already given games to 4 draftees from last year's draft and Arie's debut might be imminent .... not sure but it could be the most new draftees out of any team

At the same time you don't want to destroy any or all confidence ... we saw with Collard that he just wasn't ready ... sure he got a taste but I would be surprised if they play him again this season.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

The draft works if they don't have academies. They just need to make it so that clubs can't trade out of the early rounds and make up points.

Dogs got pick one in Ugle-Hagen. Even if you think that's fair despite playing finals, they got to trade out all their early picks. We couldn't get access to Treloar which would have made a difference to us without trading out of the draft.

Dogs were crazy not to pick him up because they would have binned the picks if they didn't. It literally meant they get a A grade talent and pick one for a bunch of average draft picks.

That's a system that does the absolute opposite to what they claim it is about which is allowing a level playing field.

It's unequalization, how can you have Victorian sides that finish lower than QLD teams and can't even get access to there own top 40 academy players at a discount as they do, yet some Victorian teams haven't played finals in over a decade.
AFL have to change the rules. At least make it if you finish bottom 8 allow unrestricted drafting to your own academy prospects.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

I think we are all in agreeance about the Bluescum but personally I wouldn't lose any sleep about North becoming the Tassie Kangaroos .... which is unlikely anyway ..... for their sake I hope they can turnaround their current predicament but if they can't then I fear for their future

This should never happen. Victoria is the heart of AFL. Yet their sucking the blood out of these teams to feed the northern states.

 

[beside the seaside]

The issue we face with Battle is because he's unrestricted we can't match. So the most likely scenario is we get stuck with an end of first round pick AT BEST. Then wait around for five years to see if that player ends up as good as Battle which they most likely don't.

The chances of getting an early first for him are miniscule.

It was one thing to let Gresh walk who was a limited player who had never really bought into the club. Josh Battle

26

Josh Battle

Age

26

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

is heart and soul and one of our best players.

It's a no brainer for me, don't **** around, you pay up and keep him.