List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

[GreyCrow]

I think this has been one of Nicks biggest failing, his ability to judge talent and what's important for team success.

I think the traits Nicks like are fine - in limited doses. 2-3 maybe 4 ''good honest triers'' is as much as a team should have.

You surround them with talent - those who can move the ball on with precision and skill.

My eye test says we have at least 8 including Laird and Crouch. They are fine but limited. No bursts of speed but an ability to get the ball and deliver to the running player. Its when seniority swells their heads and they think the 1-2 is the only solution

There are ways to train them and to utilise their talents but not to let them over extend themselves. Thats when the McHenrys do the 4 corner circle shuffle trying to break a wall and ends up losing the ball. Just handball over the top of the wall

 

[skittlebrew]

WTF???!! Is this true?

 

[Crow till I die]

View attachment 2023736

WTF???!! Is this true?

Haven't looked, but it would be interesting to see the pick breakdown of each club ie what draft pick number in each draft each had as it does feel like tbose other clubs would have had the majority of their 1sts right up the pointy end of the draft and us less so, but it is a damning stat when looking at it on face value

 

[Captain Furious]

I think the traits Nicks like are fine - in limited doses. 2-3 maybe 4 ''good honest triers'' is as much as a team should have.

You surround them with talent - those who can move the ball on with precision and skill.

My eye test says we have at least 8 including Laird and Crouch. They are fine but limited. No bursts of speed but an ability to get the ball and deliver to the running player. Its when seniority swells their heads and they think the 1-2 is the only solution

There are ways to train them and to utilise their talents but not to let them over extend themselves. Thats when the McHenrys do the 4 corner circle shuffle trying to break a wall and ends up losing the ball. Just handball over the top of the wall

Are they Nicks traits or Ogilvy traits? Even if Nicks had final say in recruiting - which he doesn't - most of those ''good honest triers'' were drafted pre Nicks.

 

[Captain Furious]

I am repeating myself but as much as I love Tex it's time. Sure he can play on and contribute and it might help us finish 10th instead of 14th but we are not moving forward with him in the team.

Sure he adds experience but is it good experience?

I feel like we need a fresh start and voices in the playing group. With Sloane gone the time is right for Tex.

Would love to see Tex mentor Welsh through his 1st year on an AFL list. He's still one of the best forwards in the comp when up and running and a mile better than our 2nd best forward. Definitely need to nurse him through, maybe playing mainly home games. If we're a vague sniff of finals next year, a fit and firing Tex makes us a 5 goal + better side.

 

[spenze]

I think we'd be better off cutting ties with Tex this year, great player but it's time.

In saying that though, the club will sign him back up because they are averse to making tough decisions that will be unpopular

 

[BigBoSS_Riot]

View attachment 2023736

WTF???!! Is this true?

With three taken in both 2023 and 2020, I wouldn't be surprised.

If it counts players we traded first round picks for (Dawson and Rankine), then we'd definitely be there.

 

[MRB37]

Article this morning ranking players output from last year to this year by Champion Data

9 players playing worse
8 playing better
Another 26 not ranked because they didn't play enough last year and/or this year to be ranked (there's a min game played).

Improvers are
Butts +45%
Scholl +28%
Rankine +22%
Soligo +18%
Worrell +16%
Hinge +16%
Michalanney +16%
Fogarty +2%

Decliners
Walker -23%
Murphy -22%
Smith -20%
Keays -20%
Jones -15%
Rachele -15%
Dawson -10%
Laird -9%
ROB -7%

Walker and Smith you could chalk up to age, Walker and Rachele also due to our inability to get the ball forward, which might actually make the slight improvement from Fog a bit more impressive. Murphy, Keays and Jones should be a worry given their age/experience level.

 

[jackster83]

Article this morning ranking players output from last year to this year by Champion Data

9 players playing worse
8 playing better
Another 26 not ranked because they didn't play enough last year and/or this year to be ranked (there's a min game played).

Improvers are
Butts +45%
Scholl +28%
Rankine +22%
Soligo +18%
Worrell +16%
Hinge +16%
Michalanney +16%
Fogarty +2%

Decliners
Walker -23%
Murphy -22%
Smith -20%
Keays -20%
Jones -15%
Rachele -15%
Dawson -10%
Laird -9%
ROB -7%

Walker and Smith you could chalk up to age, Walker and Rachele also due to our inability to get the ball forward, which might actually make the slight improvement from Fog a bit more impressive. Murphy, Keays and Jones should be a worry given their age/experience level.

It's pretty bad when five of the biggest declines are blokes in the leadership group.

 

[Scorpus]

Decliners
Walker -23%
Murphy -22%
Smith -20%
Keays -20%
Jones -15%
Rachele -15%
Dawson -10%
Laird -9%
ROB -7%

Interesting how the blokes in decline are mostly the crappy players. Murphy, Smith, Keays, Jones, Laird, O'Brien. All cop criticism

 

[woofsson]

Article this morning ranking players output from last year to this year by Champion Data

9 players playing worse
8 playing better
Another 26 not ranked because they didn't play enough last year and/or this year to be ranked (there's a min game played).

Improvers are
Butts +45%
Scholl +28%
Rankine +22%
Soligo +18%
Worrell +16%
Hinge +16%
Michalanney +16%
Fogarty +2%

Decliners
Walker -23%
Murphy -22%
Smith -20%
Keays -20%
Jones -15%
Rachele -15%
Dawson -10%
Laird -9%
ROB -7%

Walker and Smith you could chalk up to age, Walker and Rachele also due to our inability to get the ball forward, which might actually make the slight improvement from Fog a bit more impressive. Murphy, Keays and Jones should be a worry given their age/experience level.

The same article says:
Champion Data stats reveal that just one player for the Crows is ranked as “elite” for 2024, and just seven as “above average”.
Which pretty well matches our current ladder position

 

[DJ75]

Are they Nicks traits or Ogilvy traits? Even if Nicks had final say in recruiting - which he doesn't - most of those ''good honest triers'' were drafted pre Nicks.

They are Nicks traits.
Ogilvie picks plenty of 'skill' players - Nicks rewards and plays the 'try' players.

 

[FR0GGY]

Article this morning ranking players output from last year to this year by Champion Data

9 players playing worse
8 playing better
Another 26 not ranked because they didn't play enough last year and/or this year to be ranked (there's a min game played).

Improvers are
Butts +45%
Scholl +28%
Rankine +22%
Soligo +18%
Worrell +16%
Hinge +16%
Michalanney +16%
Fogarty +2%

Decliners
Walker -23%
Murphy -22%
Smith -20%
Keays -20%
Jones -15%
Rachele -15%
Dawson -10%
Laird -9%
ROB -7%

Walker and Smith you could chalk up to age, Walker and Rachele also due to our inability to get the ball forward, which might actually make the slight improvement from Fog a bit more impressive. Murphy, Keays and Jones should be a worry given their age/experience level.

I don’t think the bottom list is the decliners, that’s just our leadership group.

 

[Vader]

I think we'd be better off cutting ties with Tex this year, great player but it's time.

In saying that though, the club will sign him back up because they are averse to making tough decisions that will be unpopular

I think Tex will make the call himself - and I think he's earned that right.

 

[Vader]

Haven't looked, but it would be interesting to see the pick breakdown of each club ie what draft pick number in each draft each had as it does feel like tbose other clubs would have had the majority of their 1sts right up the pointy end of the draft and us less so, but it is a damning stat when looking at it on face value

I don't have the time to assess what picks the other clubs have had.

Here's the list of all our 1st round picks over the last decade:
2014 - Lever (14)
2015 - Milera (11), Doedee (17*)
2016 - Gallucci (15)
2017 - Fogarty (12)
2018 - Jones (9), McHenry (15)
2019 - McAsey (6)
2020 - Thilthorpe (2*), Pedlar (11), Cook (25)
2021 - Rachele (6)
2022 - Michelanney (17)
2023 - Curtin (8), Edwards (21), Ryan (27)

* Indicates picks where we bid on another player, which was matched, before the player/pick included in the list.

By my count that's 16x 1st round picks in the last decade. Of these, only one (Thilthorpe) was a top-5 pick; and only 4 others (Jones, McAsey, Rachele, Curtin) were taken inside the top-10; 11 of the 16 were taken with picks 10+.

Yes, we've had a reasonable number of 1st round picks, but very few of them have been at the pointy end of the field. Most of our picks have been taken at the point where the gene pool starts to get a bit shallower.

As previously noted - I'm not sure how those figures stack up against what other clubs have done.

 

[Crow till I die]

I don't have the time to assess what picks the other clubs have had.

Here's the list of all our 1st round picks over the last decade:
2014 - Lever (14)
2015 - Milera (11), Doedee (17*)
2016 - Gallucci (15)
2017 - Fogarty (12)
2018 - Jones (9), McHenry (15)
2019 - McAsey (6)
2020 - Thilthorpe (2*), Pedlar (11), Cook (25)
2021 - Rachele (6)
2022 - Michelanney (17)
2023 - Curtin (8), Edwards (21), Ryan (27)

* Indicates picks where we bid on another player, which was matched, before the player/pick included in the list.

By my count that's 16x 1st round picks in the last decade. Of these, only one (Thilthorpe) was a top-5 pick; and only 4 others (Jones, McAsey, Rachele, Curtin) were taken inside the top-10; 11 of the 16 were taken with picks 10+.

Yes, we've had a reasonable number of 1st round picks, but very few of them have been at the pointy end of the field. Most of our picks have been taken at the point where the gene pool starts to get a bit shallower.

As previously noted - I'm not sure how those figures stack up against what other clubs have done.

Thats what I suspected

 

[WeeBlake]

I think Tex will make the call himself - and I think he's earned that right.

No player ever earns that right

 

[Vader]

Here the top-10 picks taken by each club over the last decade:
Adelaide - Thilthorpe (2), McAsey (6), Rachele (6), Curtin (8), Jones (9)
Brisbane - Rayner (1), Schache (2), Ashcroft (2), McCluggage (3).
Carlton - Weitering (1), Walsh (1), Dow (3), Petrevski-Seton (6), Mackay (10).
Collingwood - N Daicos (4), DeGoey (5), Stephenson (6), Moore (9)
Essendon - , McGrath (1), Tsatas (5)Parish (5), Francis (6), Cox (8), Perkins (9), Caddy (10)
Fremantle - Brayshaw (2), Cerra (5), Young (7), Serong (8), Amiss (8), Logue (8), Henry (9), Erasmus (10)
Geelong - Clark (8), Cockatoo (10)
GWS - Cadman (1), Taranto (2), Callaghan (3), Ash (4), Pickett (4), Setterfield (5), Marchbank (6), Hopper (7), Ahern (7), Green (10)
Gold Coast - Rowell (1), Anderson (2), Lukosius (2), Rankine (3), Walter (3), Ainsworth (4), Andrew (5), Humphrey (6), King (6), Blakely (7), Hollands (7), Scrimshaw (7), Ah Chee (8), Wright (8), Brodie (9), Read (9), Bowes (10)
Hawthorn - Watson (5), Grainger-Barras (6), Mackenzie (7), Ward (7)
Melbourne - Petracca (2), Brayshaw (3), Jackson (3), Oliver (4), Windsor (7), Weideman (9)
North Melbourne - Horne-Francis (1), McKercher (2), Sheezel (3), Phillips (3), Durrsma (4), Wardlaw (4), Davies-Uniacke (4), Thomas (8)
Port Adelaide - Rozee (5)
Richmond - Gibcus (9)
Sydney - Mills (3), McDonald (4), Campbell (5), Stephens (5), Blakey (10)
St Kilda - McCartin (1), King (4), Clark (7), Coffield (8), Phillipou (10)
West Coast - Reid (1), Ginbey (9)
Western Bulldogs - Ugle-Hagan (1), Darcy (2), Sanders (6), Smith (7), Naughton (9)


Notes:

• GWS and Gold Coast have made obscene number of top-10 and top-5 picks.
• Port have put a lot of eggs in the Horne-Francis trade basket, with Rozee their only other 1x top-10 pick in the last decade!
• Richmond have only made 1x top-10 pick in the last decade.
• Only Richmond and Geelong have gone the whole decade without a single top-5 draft pick.

Port, Richmond & Geelong have clearly taken fewer top-10 players than Adelaide, but everyone else have taken at least as many. Only Hawthorn, Richmond and Geelong have made fewer top-5 selections than Adelaide.

 

[GoRoos2023]

A 2nd for a 25 year old Toby Pink that's even worse. They picked him up as delisted free agent didn't they?

We didnt trade for Toby Pink he was from the SANFL

 

[Crow till I die]

Here the top-10 picks taken by each club over the last decade:
Adelaide - Thilthorpe (2), McAsey (6), Rachele (6), Curtin (8), Jones (9)
Brisbane - Rayner (1), Schache (2), Ashcroft (2), McCluggage (3).
Carlton - Weitering (1), Walsh (1), Dow (3), Petrevski-Seton (6), Mackay (10).
Collingwood - N Daicos (4), DeGoey (5), Stephenson (6), Moore (9)
Essendon - , McGrath (1), Tsatas (5)Parish (5), Francis (6), Cox (8), Perkins (9), Caddy (10)
Fremantle - Brayshaw (2), Cerra (5), Young (7), Serong (8), Amiss (8), Logue (8), Henry (9), Erasmus (10)
Geelong - Clark (8), Cockatoo (10)
GWS - Cadman (1), Taranto (2), Callaghan (3), Ash (4), Pickett (4), Setterfield (5), Marchbank (6), Hopper (7), Ahern (7), Green (10)
Gold Coast - Rowell (1), Anderson (2), Lukosius (2), Rankine (3), Walter (3), Ainsworth (4), Andrew (5), Humphrey (6), King (6), Blakely (7), Hollands (7), Scrimshaw (7), Ah Chee (8), Wright (8), Brodie (9), Read (9), Bowes (10)
Hawthorn - Watson (5), Grainger-Barras (6), Mackenzie (7), Ward (7)
Melbourne - Petracca (2), Brayshaw (3), Jackson (3), Oliver (4), Windsor (7), Weideman (9)
North Melbourne - Horne-Francis (1), McKercher (2), Sheezel (3), Phillips (3), Durrsma (4), Wardlaw (4), Davies-Uniacke (4), Thomas (8)
Port Adelaide - Rozee (5)
Richmond - Gibcus (9)
Sydney - Mills (3), McDonald (4), Campbell (5), Stephens (5), Blakey (10)
St Kilda - McCartin (1), King (4), Clark (7), Coffield (8), Phillipou (10)
West Coast - Reid (1), Ginbey (9)
Western Bulldogs - Ugle-Hagan (1), Darcy (2), Sanders (6), Smith (7), Naughton (9)


Notes:

• GWS and Gold Coast have made obscene number of top-10 and top-5 picks.
• Port have put a lot of eggs in the Horne-Francis trade basket, with Rozee their only other 1x top-10 pick in the last decade!
• Richmond have only made 1x top-10 pick in the last decade.
• Only Richmond and Geelong have gone the whole decade without a single top-5 draft pick.

Port, Richmond & Geelong have clearly taken fewer top-10 players than Adelaide, but everyone else have taken at least as many. Only Hawthorn, Richmond and Geelong have made fewer top-5 selections than Adelaide.

That paints a very different picture than the article in terms of top 10 talent clubs have been able to bring in as not all 1st round picks are equal

 

[Mutineer]

We didnt trade for Toby Pink he was from the SANFL

A delisted free agent nonetheless.

 

[BACCS]

BARRETT: Crow for life, or gun for hire? Taylor Walker's big question

If Walker and Adelaide part ways at season's end, a host of clubs would be better with him in their attack, writes Damian Barrett

www.afl.com.au

Abuse me all you want, but a big part of me would actually be happy for Tex if he got a chance at a premiership next year with a contender. I’d even barrack for them for the year.

**** no and Tex would never do it anyway

 

[Vader]

That paints a very different picture than the article in terms of top 10 talent clubs have been able to bring in as not all 1st round picks are equal

Agreed. We may have taken a lot of 1st round selections, but more than 2/3 of them were taken with picks 11+, where the gene pool is much thinner.

There are a LOT of clubs with more top-5 and top-5 picks than Adelaide.

Top-5 picks
7 - Gold Coast, North Melbourne
6 - GWS
4 - Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney
3 - Carlton, Essendon
2 - Collingwood, Fremantle, St Kilda, Western Bulldogs
1 - Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Hawthorn, West Coast
0 - Geelong, Richmond

Top-10 picks
17 - Gold Coast
10 - GWS
8 - Fremantle, North Melbourne
7 - Essendon
6 - Melbourne
5 - Sydney, Adelaide, Carlton, St Kilda, Western Bulldogs
4 - Brisbane, Collingwood, Hawthorn
2 - Geelong , West Coast
1 - Port Adelaide, Richmond

We're right in the middle of the field for top-10 picks, but we're well below average for top-5 picks. I'm guessing that makes us close to the top of the tree for 1st round picks in the 11+ range.

 

[BACCS]

Tried to pick a best 23 for 2025 (assuming we trade ROB and get Moyle or another ruck)...

B: Hamill, Murray, Hinge
HB: Worrell, Keane, Milera
C: Nankervis, Soligo, Curtin
HF: Rachele, Fogarty, Keays
FF: Tex (no more than 15 games), Thilthorpe, Dawson
R: Moyle (or whoever we trade in), Michalanney, Rankine
I: Sholl, Dowling, Taylor, 2 of Pedlar/Cook/Borlase/Butts/Laird/Ryan/Edwards (depends on matchups and form)

Could add Welsh and our top 5 pick into the depth mix too, but hard to make calls there yet. Would love to add a Perryman or Cumming into the mix too, but again can't make calls there yet.

 

[Dangerousfield]

I think we'd be better off cutting ties with Tex this year, great player but it's time.

In saying that though, the club will sign him back up because they are averse to making tough decisions that will be unpopular

Tex turns 35 early next season and right now looks his age. I've loved Tex, his 2023 was fantastic and a big reason we finished so high but the cliff can come quickly this far into the 30's, Hawkins at Geelong a prime example who came off a good season to this year looking mediocre and almost a certain retiree.

You can't really have a serious season if your key forward is having to be age related managed every second or third game. Sentiment needs to be parked and the right decision made at seasons end. Tex is either back to full fitness in order to have a good pre season or he should be retired.

As for the article on the AFL website about playing on at another club, just another stupid article to fill space. Those AFL commentators talk rubbish 80% of the time.