List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[The Punter]

Every year that wasn’t 2017.

So 2019 when he played every game and averaged more disposals and clearances than in 2017?

Some of this revisionist history is instructive. I'm happy to concede he didn't kick on like we all wanted him too, but a lot of the commentary about most of his time at St Kilda is just not at all accurate.

 

[hayes]

So 2019 when he played every game and averaged more disposals and clearances than in 2017?

Some of this revisionist history is instructive. I'm happy to concede he didn't kick on like we all wanted him too, but a lot of the commentary about most of his time at St Kilda is just not at all accurate.

That’s my bad, in my head 2019 was all under Ratten but I forgot he came in towards the end of the year. Both were good years but two good years out of 10 doesn’t mean you were a good player.

 

[stfan]

Freo’s 4th ruck in line Max Knobel (Gippsland lad originally) I reckon is a guy we need to go super hard at. Liam Reidy looks great obviously and would also suit us at 24yo but knobel at 206cm, southpaw tap ruckman who marks strongly already around the ground at 20yo, a really nice kick as well. Would come super cheap and will be a good option with Heath at 21yo going forward.

Not going to solve all our issues but I’d be thrilled if we started making little moves like that building out our 20-23yo depth.

Think we are still best to retain Marshall unless we get a monster deal from Geelong including multiple top 10 picks including a top 5.

Hopefully he, unlike his father Trent who played for us, can win his own ball around the ground.


You really need rucks these days who can rack up possessions too.

 

[The Punter]

That’s my bad, in my head 2019 was all under Ratten but I forgot he came in towards the end of the year. Both were good years but two good years out of 10 doesn’t mean you were a good player.

He was drafted in 2013, and built year on year for six years save a year when the entire team was poor (2018). The numbers can't really be used for 2020, but my recollection was he was very handy until he got injured towards the end of the year. In 2021 he got hurt again and his form at St Kilda never recovered.

And most AFL players are good players. Billings was never great, was probably one step away from that level in 2017, and was there again in 2019. But he never met our collective expectations after being drafted third in a super draft for midfielders and essentially winning a game off his own boot in his second season.

 

[Miha]

A couple on the main board saying Battle is staying. Internet is always correct

 

[CaptainRisky]

A couple on the main board saying Battle is staying. Internet is always correct

How dare you not believe everything on the interweb is not true

 

[dudeintheswamp]

A couple on the main board saying Battle is staying. Internet is always correct

Welcome Ty.

 

[stfan]

Billing’s was a spud under multiple coaches -

Billings was never a spud.

He did not become the star that we hoped, but he certainly played at a level that was first 22 with us.

 

[kernelT]

By decree of the saints BF board…anyone coming to us is elite & anyone leaving is a spud.

Billings may be no star but is capable of decent footy at the highest level and I think he would have played this year with our extensive injury list. For the return we got, I would have preferred to just hold onto him and play him at Sandy if we didn't need him rather than us cover his wage to play for Melbourne. If his form picked up then we get a better return, if not then we lose nothing. Our salary cap should have loads of space so that shouldn't be a factor.

 

[kernelT]

People popping champas about Henry last week.

 

[joydivision22]

Battle staying will be a big LFG to the group I reckon. Reading the Hawks board, sounds like they offered him under 800k so even better result if he does stay.

If we can add Stengle on around the same and take the best mid available in the draft we're on track to bounce well with natural improvement from the established youth.

 

[joydivision22]

Hopefully he, unlike his father Trent who played for us, can win his own ball around the ground.


You really need rucks these days who can rack up possessions too.

He's a beanpole 206cm not an accumulating midfielder but can certainly hold his own around the ground with neat confident disposal. Can see him being an absolute weapon when he's 30yo after finally filling out.

 

[Riewoldt]

People popping champas about Henry last week.

View attachment 2030534

 

[MrFoster]

So 2019 when he played every game and averaged more disposals and clearances than in 2017?

Some of this revisionist history is instructive. I'm happy to concede he didn't kick on like we all wanted him too, but a lot of the commentary about most of his time at St Kilda is just not at all accurate.

Under Richo/Ratten, when he couldn’t hack it as a half forward who kicks goals/assists (like Higgins), he played the run back to HB role and became the spare man when we won the ball in the backline.. basically the spare wingman..easiest position to play, that’s why he accumulated ok numbers.. but did nothing with the ball most times, either a side way chip or long bomb forward, is a typical beige player..

 

[kernelT]

View attachment 2030569

Think you're missing the point, I'm not suggesting we should have kept billings long term and not traded Henry in.

 

[akaifu]

Think you're missing the point, I'm not suggesting we should have kept billings long term and not traded Henry in.

Do you even have a point or just clueless?

 

[MrFoster]

People popping champas about Henry last week.

View attachment 2030534

There’s a thing called impact which is often missed by just looking at pure possession numbers..

Henry has been kicking goals and assisting goals.. in addition, his pace and attacking play really impacts the game even with less possessions. Billing is a typical play safe type, side way/backward chip kick or long bombs, if he can’t mark the ball or is under pressure, he is toast..

Now I’m not saying Henry is the GOAT, but his high impact per possession and scope to go into midfield, run and carry / offer attacking threat is really exciting

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Welcome to the Saints Josh Battle

26

Josh Battle

Age

26

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

.

 

[kernelT]

Do you even have a point or just clueless?

I'm tipping you'll struggle to understand no matter how simply I lay it out.

 

[kernelT]

There’s a thing called impact which is often missed by just looking at pure possession numbers..

Henry has been kicking goals and assisting goals.. in addition, his pace and attacking play really impacts the game even with less possessions. Billing is a typical play safe type, side way/backward chip kick or long bombs, if he can’t mark the ball or is under pressure, he is toast..

Now I’m not saying Henry is the GOAT, but his high impact per possession and scope to go into midfield, run and carry / offer attacking threat is really exciting

So score involvements would be a good indicator?

 

[jimmytigs]

Welcome to the Saints Josh Battle.

is this why gettable is late today?

 

[gringo2011]

We topped up because we couldn’t draft or develop players under Watters; Richo eras.. funnily enough, those topped up players were the best performers in 2020 when we made finals:
1. Butler - key to us kicking lots of early goals
2. Ryder - Key to us winning centre clearances, also played well forward
3. Howard - was a good stopper
4. Jones - Provided much needed zip in midfield when not injured
5. Hill - was the only one struggled at first because our poor midfield (this bypassing wing play altogether), later shifted to HBF to get his kicks

I don’t think that’s the main issue.. The main issue is he was always a utility mid at junior football, mainly playing as a half forward/CHF and then some midfield minutes instead of a full time mid, so his midfield craft apart from getting a handball here and there is not natural to him.. comparing him to Bont was a big mistake, apart from being tall, he is nothing like Bont.. not the ability to win contested ball, nor the cleanness or the ability to burst away and get out of congestion / tackles..

Now we obviously hope he will get there eventually.. but expecting a good HF flank to become an elite inside/outside midfielder is is quite a big ask, just like Billings who was a HF flanker and never had the ability to become a ball winning midfielder..

The same can be said about Owens, on the other hand, Windhager is a natural mid in juniors and should become a pretty good full time mid in no time (reference from the Collingwood game early this year)

Them being our best players is true but you need to draft hard then top up. We have made a hole in our list that we still have to fill in. We topped and then drafted.

 

[gringo2011]

Purely just my observations- but I have a feeling that phillipou has similar mindset issues to what billings had in his early years.

He seems to be a perfectionist AND in a giant hurry to be a star (ie trying to walk before he can crawl).

Admirable- but also crippling, because if you let that mindset run unchecked for years- it only leads to constantly beating yourself up because you self perception is always disappointing yourself and everyone else.


View attachment 2030425
View attachment 2030427

Billings was thrown to the wolves a lot more. Our terrible development in those days burnt a lot of players and broke their confidence. Melbourne and Gold Coast did it to a generation too. Until you have a senior support crew, even if they aren't great, it's hard to bring young players through and maximise their talent.

Really pleased to see us sending Pou back to Sandy to build him up. He'll get a lot more out of dominating a lower level than feeling lost getting handful of touches.

 

[gringo2011]

Do you even have a point or just clueless?

You have a very abrasive manner dude. Are you Plugger 66?

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

People popping champas about Henry last week.

View attachment 2030534

Stats schmats

As a long time defender of JB I was really disappointed that he got hurt early last year & didn’t get to progress under Ross.

But it was time for a fresh start for him.

His form at Melbourne has probably been worse than any of his time with us.

If he stayed then he’s most likely spending most of his season at Sandy outside of the 3 weeks that we had no Snags, Butts or Henry.


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