List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[Yawkey way]

You're all over the shop. I'm saying in 4 years all of our current best players will be retired or on the cusp of it.

Campbell, Ross, Webster, Hill, Wood, Crouch, Jones, Sinclair and Membrey will be 33 to 36yo.

Marshall, Steele, Hayes, Wilkie, Howard and Butler will be 32.

Cordy and Bonner will be 31.

Our guys who are going to be the senior hard bodied core to guide the kids will be:

Battle, Paton, Higgins and Clark who will be 29.

Dow and Stocker 28. King, Sharman, Byrnes, 27.

Henry, Allison and Hall 26.

Then of our kids we have now will be under 25 except Nas and Windhager.

That looks like Gold Coast or North Melbourne. To me we need to play to make finals for a few years and prioritise holding guys like Battle because if we don't hold them we going out trying to replace them in that age bracket just to be competitive. Need to bulk that age demographic out too. Sides with bulk youth tend to be uncompetitive.

To me we are a gun mid and a small forward off top 8 next year. Prioritise getting them in that age bracket or a bridging player and go hard because once those older guys pass 30 we are going to a very young side. Draft and trade to stay up while attracting players in.

If the cupboards bare gringo then hanging onto battle who’s just a good player isn’t moving the needle. Also you talk about this like st Kilda are blowing up the list like north and hawthorn did, we’re not. If our list is in poor shape it’s because of poor trading and drafting from another period we’ve been good lately. What other than doing the right things now are we meant to do.

 

[gringo2011]

If the cupboards bare gringo then hanging onto battle who’s just a good player isn’t moving the needle. Also you talk about this like st Kilda are blowing up the list like north and hawthorn did, we’re not. If our list is in poor shape it’s because of poor trading and drafting from another period we’ve good lately. What other than doing the right things now are we meant to do.

I rate Battle. I think he's around Jake Lever level. He's one of the few in our mid age bracket (22 to 27) that are definitely good enough to be playing still in 4 years. King, Snags, Henry the others. Dow, Clark, Stocker, Sharman possibly. The others are unlikely or marginal. We only have 12.

Battle should be about to come into his best and most consistent form now. Collingwood, Melbourne and the Hawks are all putting up big offers. Think if he's only an average player these clubs might be a bit shit at talent identification. If we have to spend more to replace him maybe we'd be better to keep him. Also gives us the opportunity to chase Stengle so it's a double hit if he walks.

We have a limited middle age bracket because we traded for players instead of drafting after we'd already rooted most drafts for the previous 15 years.

 

[austinnn]

Deleted post

Woah! Did Shaggy forget to feed you this morning or something?

 

[Gavinmitchell11]

Ro and Hunter

For Xerri and LDU

I’m all for trading in future 1st rounders too.

 

[Teflon]

I'm sure this will tickle the fancy of a few foamers but… I would have told Billings to knuckle the **** down instead of trading him for a bag of poo.

I reckon he would have been handier than Zak Jones this year, if not then he can go into the draft or DFA.

Billing’s was a spud under multiple coaches - never filled potential and isn’t at Melbourne
I don’t think a “knuckle down Jack” chat was gonna cut it

 

[Teflon]

Marshall went backwards as a second ruck under Ryder. Don't think it's anything but maturity and experience. He wasn't some shit box that he sprinkled fairy dust on. I'd say you could suggest the same for all of those players.

So if the players go shit … it’s Lyon
If they’re going ok …they would’ve anyway no dairy dust required?

 

[Teflon]

This is the thing. We want to play finals and be competitive. You w***ers think we need to win trade period like we have for the last 15 years while never getting any better. it's a shit draft to go full on into the front end of.

If we sell off all our competitive players we start to look like North Melbourne. Personally I will cancel my membership because we were sold a crock of shit. We should expect a competitive list and not have to wait 10 years to get one.

If this is another rebuild the whole place needs a broom through it. They have been absolutely terrible at running a footy club. Bassat and the board are not up to it if they can't even get the basics right even after throwing money at it.

We aren’t winning shit with the current list that’s for sure
We’ve been a decade in the wilderness
The club and Bassat came out specifically and said we also may have to go back to go forwards
For the 1st time in a long time I feel like the club is being honest about this list - mature core is largely beige taking us nowhere (Ratten was telling us “yeah nah fellas we are in the window..” bollocks!)
No one is “selling the farm” we’ve got 1 guy testing the market to get his payday…fair enough but we don’t pay any price..that’s sensible
A “rumour” that a 29 year old ruck “may” want out….ok if someone is going stupid to offer us 2 FRDP and a at least 1 top 10 the other very close ….id listen but that’s a rumour
Now we have people cancelling memberships and throwing out the Board ??
Where’s the fire?

 

[Teflon]

You have to wonder why one of your best players paid like a champion and one of the faces of the club would want out. That is 100% a rejection of the way he sees the direction of the club going.

And he also may be wrong
1 player doesn’t dictate the club
anyway we can’t know that and to assume it’s all fire n brimstone inside the joint cause a 29 yr old ruck wants a change of scenery makes no sense

 

[Teflon]

What exactly are they going to **** up gringo ?. We don’t have the cattle or the capital to top up so what exactly are we meant to do ?. Go all out with our war chest and whatever draft picks we have to get who exactly that will turn us into flag contenders and with a list profile that won’t consign us to another decade in the Botton 6 after Tassie comes into the comp.

We’re being pragmatic for the first time in how long and that beats the hell out of our Jack and the magic beans routine. Battle is a fee agent with a very good offer to stay in front of him. Marshall may be all talk but he’s contracted and going nowhere unless we get the deal we want even if the rumours are true. Why would we be crying about a super deal for a 29 year old ruckman?. If it isn’t super he’s going nowhere, think of a full dodoro type ask from GC or Bell at his best we want moyle and your first plus another first ?.

I think what’s getting an eyebrow raise from me is we all know we’re not good enough. We all know that we’re not too likely to change that with 1 first round pick. We all know Tassie are coming in and the difficulties concessions bring. Yet somehow despite all that and our dissatisfaction with the situation attempting to change has somehow become risky, madness, likely to bring about our doom.

Stockholm syndrome.

Yep it’s what I don’t get
It’s like the doomsayer brigade arent happy unless we spend another 10 years in no man’s land making up numbers ?
Bizarre
We did nothing under Richo/Ratten
The club know this list is not top 4-6
They have to generate avenues to talent …1 pick 18 Wilson at a time won’t get it done
We have sone good kids …we need more
I’d rather have a crack than tip toe around 8-14 while Tassie load up
Gotta go now

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yep it’s what I don’t get
It’s like the doomsayer brigade arent happy unless we spend another 10 years in no man’s land making up numbers ?
Bizarre
We did nothing under Richo/Ratten
The club know this list is not top 4-6
They have to generate avenues to talent …1 pick 18 Wilson at a time won’t get it done
We have sone good kids …we need more
I’d rather have a crack than tip toe around 8-14 while Tassie load up
Gotta go now

1 at a time isn't enough.
Nas, Owens, Windhager.

Phillipou, ( Van Es , Keeler ) , i'd hope we get 2.

Wilson, Garcia, Schoenmaker, ( Collard ) i'd hope 3 work out.

Keep doing this and we'll be fine. Go looking for magic beans .....is what we've been doing for more than a decade.

 

[Teflon]

1 at a time isn't enough.
Nas, Owens, Windhager.

Phillipou, ( Van Es , Keeler ) , i'd hope we get 2.

Wilson, Garcia, Schoenmaker, ( Collard ) i'd hope 3 work out.

Keep doing this and we'll be fine. Go looking for magic beans .....is what we've been doing for more than a decade.

Agree 1 at a time isn’t enough and not at that elite end where you need them
I think Windhager will be a good player …game changing good? No
Magic beans is bringing in Hill Dougal Jones and Hannerbury …skipping out if drafts cause you’re footy department tells the Board “windows open folks”
Utter bullshyte

 

[joydivision22]

Freo’s 4th ruck in line Max Knobel (Gippsland lad originally) I reckon is a guy we need to go super hard at. Liam Reidy looks great obviously and would also suit us at 24yo but knobel at 206cm, southpaw tap ruckman who marks strongly already around the ground at 20yo, a really nice kick as well. Would come super cheap and will be a good option with Heath at 21yo going forward.

Not going to solve all our issues but I’d be thrilled if we started making little moves like that building out our 20-23yo depth.

Think we are still best to retain Marshall unless we get a monster deal from Geelong including multiple top 10 picks including a top 5.

 

[CursingFijian]

TThere are several on there that wont be at the club next year and id say 12 of them gone in the next two years

Tom Campbell’s career is just about to take off!

 

[_Maximus_12]

Freo’s 4th ruck in line Max Knobel (Gippsland lad originally) I reckon is a guy we need to go super hard at. Liam Reidy looks great obviously and would also suit us at 24yo but knobel at 206cm, southpaw tap ruckman who marks strongly already around the ground at 20yo, a really nice kick as well. Would come super cheap and will be a good option with Heath at 21yo going forward.

Not going to solve all our issues but I’d be thrilled if we started making little moves like that building out our 20-23yo depth.

Think we are still best to retain Marshall unless we get a monster deal from Geelong including multiple top 10 picks including a top 5.

Son of a former all time Saints great. Sign me up.

 

[Yawkey way]

I rate Battle. I think he's around Jake Lever level. He's one of the few in our mid age bracket (22 to 27) that are definitely good enough to be playing still in 4 years. King, Snags, Henry the others. Dow, Clark, Stocker, Sharman possibly. The others are unlikely or marginal. We only have 12.

Battle should be about to come into his best and most consistent form now. Collingwood, Melbourne and the Hawks are all putting up big offers. Think if he's only an average player these clubs might be a bit shit at talent identification. If we have to spend more to replace him maybe we'd be better to keep him. Also gives us the opportunity to chase Stengle so it's a double hit if he walks.

We have a limited middle age bracket because we traded for players instead of drafting after we'd already rooted most drafts for the previous 15 years.

Collingwood and Melbourne to a lesser extent are both on the edge of a cliff when you look at the age of there lists, we’re on point Ormond hill in comparison.

I like battle and I’d be happy if he stays but other than paying stupid money there’s not much more st Kilda can do. I know a lot of posters will support just paying the price but that’s just bad management Imo and comes back to bite you latter.

 

[botts]

Freo’s 4th ruck in line Max Knobel (Gippsland lad originally) I reckon is a guy we need to go super hard at. Liam Reidy looks great obviously and would also suit us at 24yo but knobel at 206cm, southpaw tap ruckman who marks strongly already around the ground at 20yo, a really nice kick as well. Would come super cheap and will be a good option with Heath at 21yo going forward.

Not going to solve all our issues but I’d be thrilled if we started making little moves like that building out our 20-23yo depth.

Think we are still best to retain Marshall unless we get a monster deal from Geelong including multiple top 10 picks including a top 5.

Old man played for the saints

 

[seasonedsainter]

I'm sure this will tickle the fancy of a few foamers but… I would have told Billings to knuckle the **** down instead of trading him for a bag of poo.

I reckon he would have been handier than Zak Jones this year, if not then he can go into the draft or DFA.

He's an absolute seagull, have you watched any Melbourne games this year? He goes where the ball isn't and is literally a fringe player, rarely initiates a play, always just hanging around for a handball receive. There was a game a few weeks ago where he totally squibbed a marking contest in their back 50 too. Has been in and out of the team, the Meblourne board have all turned on him already, won't be on their list for long IMO! Much prefer the cap space thanks!

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Max Knobel has been playing in the WAFL Reserves competition .... like playing for Sandringham reserves

https://wafl.com.au/player/max-knobel

 

[The_Steadier]

He's an absolute seagull, have you watched any Melbourne games this year? He goes where the ball isn't and is literally a fringe player, rarely initiates a play, always just hanging around for a handball receive. There was a game a few weeks ago where he totally squibbed a marking contest in their back 50 too. Has been in and out of the team, the Meblourne board have all turned on him already, won't be on their list for long IMO! Much prefer the cap space thanks!

Purely just my observations- but I have a feeling that phillipou has similar mindset issues to what billings had in his early years.

He seems to be a perfectionist AND in a giant hurry to be a star (ie trying to walk before he can crawl).

Admirable- but also crippling, because if you let that mindset run unchecked for years- it only leads to constantly beating yourself up because you self perception is always disappointing yourself and everyone else.

 

[The Punter]

Billing’s was a spud under multiple coaches - never filled potential and isn’t at Melbourne
I don’t think a “knuckle down Jack” chat was gonna cut it

Can you indicate the period Billings was poor under Alan Richardson? Trailed off under Ratten (but really only post mid-2021) and never got a real chance under Lyon.

 

[gringo2011]

So if the players go shit … it’s Lyon
If they’re going ok …they would’ve anyway no dairy dust required?

He's turned "Hill's career around.He hasn't turned a whole lot of careers around. Marshall, Steele, Sinclair, Wilkie, Sinclair, Hill etc all were featuring in multiple B and Fs. Hill is noticeably better under Lyon. Membrey, Ross, King, Howard, Jones etc are all noticeably worse.

Kids like Nas were already playing games and looking on track. It's actually been a bit disappointing that he hasn't been able to polish up a few players and turn them into consistent soldiers. That was his best skill once. Taking GOPs and giving them a defined role that extracted all of the ability that they did have.

Ratts probably had more of an impact on getting the most out of his players. Guys like Battle, Marshall and Sinclair all went from fringeblayers or GOPs to guns.

 

[MrFoster]

I was the poster boy when it was rebuild time. We had Stuv coming out, the end for Roberton, Carlisle, no midfield etc. We went out and topped up instead of going to the draft. All after years of selling off picks to chase shit top ups.

We are stocked with youth now and should keep using high picks but need refining and holes filled to start moving forward.

We topped up because we couldn’t draft or develop players under Watters; Richo eras.. funnily enough, those topped up players were the best performers in 2020 when we made finals:
1. Butler - key to us kicking lots of early goals
2. Ryder - Key to us winning centre clearances, also played well forward
3. Howard - was a good stopper
4. Jones - Provided much needed zip in midfield when not injured
5. Hill - was the only one struggled at first because our poor midfield (this bypassing wing play altogether), later shifted to HBF to get his kicks

Purely just my observations- but I have a feeling that phillipou has similar mindset issues to what billings had in his early years.

He seems to be a perfectionist AND in a giant hurry to be a star (ie trying to walk before he can crawl).

Admirable- but also crippling, because if you let that mindset run unchecked for years- it only leads to constantly beating yourself up because you self perception is always disappointing yourself and everyone else.


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I don’t think that’s the main issue.. The main issue is he was always a utility mid at junior football, mainly playing as a half forward/CHF and then some midfield minutes instead of a full time mid, so his midfield craft apart from getting a handball here and there is not natural to him.. comparing him to Bont was a big mistake, apart from being tall, he is nothing like Bont.. not the ability to win contested ball, nor the cleanness or the ability to burst away and get out of congestion / tackles..

Now we obviously hope he will get there eventually.. but expecting a good HF flank to become an elite inside/outside midfielder is is quite a big ask, just like Billings who was a HF flanker and never had the ability to become a ball winning midfielder..

The same can be said about Owens, on the other hand, Windhager is a natural mid in juniors and should become a pretty good full time mid in no time (reference from the Collingwood game early this year)

 

[BigMonty]

If Battle goes I hope for First round compensation, we would have rocks in our head to get Stengle and lose the compensation.

If Marshall wants out which I hope is not the case, then another top 10 pick with another top 20-30 pick is a decent return if he wants to leave....not sure Geelong is the place to go, they are looking worse than us over the next couple of years.

3 top 10 picks in what consensus says is a weakish draft, is not the best outcome but, you never know about drafts. 3 best talent mids fixes a lot of list problems and best available after that.

There are plenty of ruckman around to fill Marshall's role. Not as good mind you.




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[hayes]

Can you indicate the period Billings was poor under Alan Richardson? Trailed off under Ratten (but really only post mid-2021) and never got a real chance under Lyon.

Every year that wasn’t 2017.

 

[BrutThough]

Can you indicate the period Billings was poor under Alan Richardson? Trailed off under Ratten (but really only post mid-2021) and never got a real chance under Lyon.

With the benefit of hindsight, continuing to play him after he hurt his foot in 2021 really killed his career. The injuries kept piling up as a result of him hobbling around and he has never regained his best form since.