List Mgmt. “It’s a form of tanking” the Richmond rebuild

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Richmond have done what they needed to do, and so far, they’ve done it well

I do think we need to take seriously some of the risks that have been flagged in this thread though

We need to learn lessons from what happened at Melbourne in the Trengrove era (putting too much expectation on young players too early) and North (being through a range of factors down too long and to a certain extent developing a losing mindset)

These risks can be overcome if we are patient and do our development right over the next 3-4 years – expose the kids but just for a few games and let them go back an reboost their confidence in the VFL – look to bring in a couple of cheap free agents as well as young talent in the next 2-3 years – just got to get the balance right.
 
Richmond get it now. They were a joke for a long time after 1980 but they’re on point now. Win when you can then burn it down at come back as quick as you can. I really like what they’ve done his trade period, winning spoons sucks though ideally you avoid them but they’re pretty fortunate the way it’s worked out with a deep draft.
 
Cactus_ said:
Richmond have done what they needed to do, and so far, they’ve done it well

I do think we need to take seriously some of the risks that have been flagged in this thread though

We need to learn lessons from what happened at Melbourne in the Trengrove era (putting too much expectation on young players too early) and North (being through a range of factors down too long and to a certain extent developing a losing mindset)

These risks can be overcome if we are patient and do our development right over the next 3-4 years – expose the kids but just for a few games and let them go back an reboost their confidence in the VFL – look to bring in a couple of cheap free agents as well as young talent in the next 2-3 years – just got to get the balance right.
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Melbourne had an appalling number of draft flops in that period. So many players like Morton, Cook and Gysberts who were highly rated but didn’t make it.

I do wonder how much of it was Melbourne’s development of the time. It’s not like they were smokies.

The outright tanking and absence of senior players didn’t help.
 

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I personally think it is a very bad move.

Richmond had a percentage of 64% in 2024 and realistically, trading away so many players their percentage in 2025 is going to be even worse, likely 10% worse.

We know from clubs like Gold Coast, GWS, Melbourne, North and Carlton that you can have a lot of high end draft pick players but if your club is being smashed week after week those high end draft pick players will not develop properly.

You need a solid foundation to allow these players to develop, they need to be protected by the older players and also be able to use those older players as examples when it comes to training standards and professionalism.

Having essentially a team full of kids basically does not work, has never worked and will never work.
 
Anja_Nees said:
Melbourne had an appalling number of draft flops in that period. So many players like Morton, Cook and Gysberts who were highly rated but didn’t make it.

I do wonder how much of it was Melbourne’s development of the time. It’s not like they were smokies.

The outright tanking and absence of senior players didn’t help.
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The outright tanking was incredibly damaging to their culture

And I think you’re right about the culture

We’ll never know but some or most of those players may have gone in to great things if they’d landed in a different environment

Then again Richmond have had some highly rated draft picks come in while our culture seemed to be good (Ben Lennon, Collier-Dawkins etc.) and they still went nowhere
 
Cactus_ said:
The outright tanking was incredibly damaging to their culture

And I think you’re right about the culture

We’ll never know but some or most of those players may have gone in to great things if they’d landed in a different environment

Then again Richmond have had some highly rated draft picks come in while our culture seemed to be good (Ben Lennon, Collier-Dawkins etc.) and they still went nowhere
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Everyone’s had a few bad first round selections but Melbourne really was something else.

Apparently when Gysberts landed at North his physical performance was on par with their draftees.
 
RUNVS said:
I personally think it is a very bad move.

Richmond had a percentage of 64% in 2024 and realistically, trading away so many players their percentage in 2025 is going to be even worse, likely 10% worse.

We know from clubs like Gold Coast, GWS, Melbourne, North and Carlton that you can have a lot of high end draft pick players but if your club is being smashed week after week those high end draft pick players will not develop properly.

You need a solid foundation to allow these players to develop, they need to be protected by the older players and also be able to use those older players as examples when it comes to training standards and professionalism.

Having essentially a team full of kids basically does not work, has never worked and will never work.
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There’s no doubt this is a risk that is going to need to be carefully managed.

How high they were drafted or what their reputations were like as juniors won’t count for anything once they start playing AFL.

And Richmond will need senior players from the previous premierships, and coaches, and probably a few old free agents we trade in cheaply over the next few years, to help instil the right culture in the new crop.

Can it be done? Of course it can.

Will we be able to do it? A lot rests on Yze, and Nank, and Vlastuin, and Taranto, and a handful of others . . .
 
Cactus_ said:
Will we be able to do it? A lot rests on Yze, and Nank, and Vlastuin, and Taranto, and a handful of others . . .
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That list of players does not exactly inspire confidence. Nankervis is a below average player, Vlastuin the same, and Taranto when at GWS at least was famous for being pretty crap when his team was playing poorly.

There is a reason Paul Roos brought in Bernie Vince and Daniel Cross when he became coach of Melbourne as he realised immediately that the team was too young. I would almost argue that without that decision Melbourne would not win the flag years later.
 
Richmond have been forced into this by terrible drafting and development followed by the awful decision to double down at the wrong time with Taranto and Hopper.

It's the right decision once they were here. Keeping disgruntled players when you're no chance of competing would've been worse. But unless the current list of younger players massively outperforms their current trajectories they're in for a world of hurt for a long time.

The current list going into next season will have 1 proven B-grade or better player under 27 in Noah Balta. That's it.

Everyone's drooling over the draft picks. Imagine they hit this draft like it's the 2001 superdraft. Would be incredibly right?

Well with the current picks in 2001 they would've got Luke Hodge and Steve Johnson. Amazing! But they also would've got:

Ashley Sampi
Sam Power
Richard Cole
Shane Harvey
Daniel Elstone
Charlie Gardiner

And that's from the greatest draft of all time.

If they pick the eyes out of the draft it will eventually pay off. But they're starting from a long, long way back having hit almost nothing over the past 6 drafts.
 
powerrrrrrrrrrrr said:
I think it’s going to fail with a North like fallout coming.

You still need some good senior bodies around to support all these young guys. It’s all well and good having a handful of top picks, however first you need them to all come on well and develop but then they need support around them.

They’re cutting too deep IMO alongside all their retirements. In for a world of pain for a few years.
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Hawthorn says hi
 

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RUNVS said:
I personally think it is a very bad move.

Richmond had a percentage of 64% in 2024 and realistically, trading away so many players their percentage in 2025 is going to be even worse, likely 10% worse.

We know from clubs like Gold Coast, GWS, Melbourne, North and Carlton that you can have a lot of high end draft pick players but if your club is being smashed week after week those high end draft pick players will not develop properly.

You need a solid foundation to allow these players to develop, they need to be protected by the older players and also be able to use those older players as examples when it comes to training standards and professionalism.

Having essentially a team full of kids basically does not work, has never worked and will never work.
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What do you suggest then keep players at the club that wanted to leave? I think Rioli was the only one that may have been happy to stay given he loves the club and Maurice just signed on for two more years with us but pretty clear Baker and Bolton wanted out the whole year.

It wasn’t like this was a planned move by us but the opportunity came and we had to do it, once Tassie comes it’s going to be extremely hard for bottom sides to get this kind of access to top end talent.
 
Well done ro the tigers, they got overs for every player. Rioli was the only one who had a good year last year. Richmond have still kept some experience and it gives yze a core group of youngsters to build he's team around. It was pretty evident the senior players didn't respect him
 
RUNVS said:
I personally think it is a very bad move.

Richmond had a percentage of 64% in 2024 and realistically, trading away so many players their percentage in 2025 is going to be even worse, likely 10% worse.

We know from clubs like Gold Coast, GWS, Melbourne, North and Carlton that you can have a lot of high end draft pick players but if your club is being smashed week after week those high end draft pick players will not develop properly.

You need a solid foundation to allow these players to develop, they need to be protected by the older players and also be able to use those older players as examples when it comes to training standards and professionalism.

Having essentially a team full of kids basically does not work, has never worked and will never work.
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But we have 1/2 of a premiership team + other mature/maturing bodies to protect the kids. Unless we have a heap more injuries the team will be a mature one with a good number of young guys in. Very few stars though. SO it should be a better team than 2024 (with injuries). But likely flaky due to the number of kid and lack of top end quality.
 
Footy Smarts said:
Richmond have been forced into this by terrible drafting and development followed by the awful decision to double down at the wrong time with Taranto and Hopper.

It's the right decision once they were here. Keeping disgruntled players when you're no chance of competing would've been worse. But unless the current list of younger players massively outperforms their current trajectories they're in for a world of hurt for a long time.

The current list going into next season will have 1 proven B-grade or better player under 27 in Noah Balta. That's it.

Everyone's drooling over the draft picks. Imagine they hit this draft like it's the 2001 superdraft. Would be incredibly right?

Well with the current picks in 2001 they would've got Luke Hodge and Steve Johnson. Amazing! But they also would've got:

Ashley Sampi
Sam Power
Richard Cole
Shane Harvey
Daniel Elstone
Charlie Gardiner

And that's from the greatest draft of all time.

If they pick the eyes out of the draft it will eventually pay off. But they're starting from a long, long way back having hit almost nothing over the past 6 drafts.
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I think 2001 got a lot of hype because of the superstars that came out of it, but I don’t really think it was that deep. In many respects I think 1999 was better.

2018 had a fantastic top 20 or so (probably one of the most even first rounds I can remember) but plunged after that.

Having a suite of early picks is definitely not a guarantee of success. I posted about it earlier but Richmond’s five top-20 picks in 2004 yielded one long-term player.
 
I like what Richmond have done. If they can nail 3-4 picks then super result. Depending on how many they have next year and nail 1 more pick next year then even better. 4-5 core players that stick around can really help the club rebound quickly.
I remember years ago the hawks v Richmond drafting and all those years on here and the bigfooty posters coming out and attacking the club for picking Tambling over Franklin etc etc. in the end …. Hawks got their three in a row plus one earlier flag and Richmond got their three within the next 5 years. Hindsight didn’t really matter. Both ended up dominating the AFL over the next 15 years by having dynasties and for their sake I’d say that successful legacy remains imbedded in the clubs. Can already see it again at the hawks.
 
lionsrules said:
I like what Richmond have done. If they can nail 3-4 picks then super result. Depending on how many they have next year and nail 1 more pick next year then even better. 4-5 core players that stick around can really help the club rebound quickly.
I remember years ago the hawks v Richmond drafting and all those years on here and the bigfooty posters coming out and attacking the club for picking Tambling over Franklin etc etc. in the end …. Hawks got their three in a row plus one earlier flag and Richmond got their three within the next 5 years. Hindsight didn’t really matter. Both ended up dominating the AFL over the next 15 years by having dynasties and for their sake I’d say that successful legacy remains imbedded in the clubs. Can already see it again at the hawks.
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People overlook sometimes that Hawthorn nailed those picks but fluffed Dowler and Thorp shortly after.

Meanwhile Richmond nailed Cotchin, Riewoldt, Martin etc and set themselves up for a later run.

No one gets it all perfect. Early selections are more likely to be successful but there are plenty of early selections that go on to be flops. At least Richmond got it right eventually.
 
RUNVS said:
I personally think it is a very bad move.

Richmond had a percentage of 64% in 2024 and realistically, trading away so many players their percentage in 2025 is going to be even worse, likely 10% worse.

We know from clubs like Gold Coast, GWS, Melbourne, North and Carlton that you can have a lot of high end draft pick players but if your club is being smashed week after week those high end draft pick players will not develop properly.

You need a solid foundation to allow these players to develop, they need to be protected by the older players and also be able to use those older players as examples when it comes to training standards and professionalism.

Having essentially a team full of kids basically does not work, has never worked and will never work.
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And what alternative do you suggest.

According to the Hartley interview today, Baker has wanted to go home for years. Bolton wants family and told them a while ago he wanted to go, Rioli wanted a change. The only one who was perhaps shopped was Graham who saw the writing on the wall as we need to go with youth and we have enough of his type of midfielder.

We will have 3 x 20 year olds on our list next year, MacAuliffe who is a hard nut, Fawcett a strong 197cm and Campbell who played 19 game in his first year. The rest of the list is 21 and over, not kids. We will not be exposing our youth before they are ready because we do not have a young list.

Most our seasoned players have a couple of years left before they need replacing, by then top 20 picks are usually about ready to go.
 
Anja_Nees said:
Melbourne had an appalling number of draft flops in that period. So many players like Morton, Cook and Gysberts who were highly rated but didn’t make it.

I do wonder how much of it was Melbourne’s development of the time. It’s not like they were smokies.

The outright tanking and absence of senior players didn’t help.
Click to expand...

Sending the brightest school leavers to the shittest universities
 
SSSSSS said:
I predict at least 14 10+ goal beltings for the Tigers next year.
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Why because of our new kids?
Richmond's best 22 next year:

B: Broad, Balta, Short
HB: Vlastuin, Gibcus, Brown
C: Ralph Smith, Taranto, Campbell
HF: Mansell, LeFau, Clarke
F: Rioli Jnr, Lynch, Green
R: Nank, Ross, Prestia

Int: Hopper, McAuliffe, Bauer, Banks, Trezise
Backup: Sonsie, Miller, Smith, MacIntosh, Cumberland and a few others.

2 x 32 year olds in Prestia and Lynch, Broad 31, Vlastuin 30 and Short 29. Not old.

Not an 18 year old in sight.

Is there room for top 20 talent, indeed, one or two might replace one or two, but that's because they are top end talent, so hardly a problem.
 
Grrr said:
Why because of our new kids?
Richmond's best 22 next year:

B: Broad, Balta, Short
HB: Vlastuin, Gibcus, Brown
C: Ralph Smith, Taranto, Campbell
HF: Mansell, LeFau, Clarke
F: Rioli Jnr, Lynch, Green
R: Nank, Ross, Prestia

Int: Hopper, McAuliffe, Bauer, Banks, Trezise
Backup: Sonsie, Miller, Smith, MacIntosh, Cumberland and a few others.

2 x 32 year olds in Prestia and Lynch, Broad 31, Vlastuin 30 and Short 29. Not old.

Not an 18 year old in sight.

Is there room for top 20 talent, indeed, one or two might replace one or two, but that's because they are top end talent, so hardly a problem.
Click to expand...

That best 22


vomit GIF
 

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