List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Trade FA Megathread

[HayesTheChamp]

Feels like we have gone full circle about 50 times already though!

Deals for Shiel, O'Rourke, Jaksch and/or Patton have come up about 15 times now hahahahaaha

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

For anyone interested in final VFL/SANFL state squads


VFL FINAL SQUAD

AnthonyAnastasioWilliamstown
ChrisCainPort Melbourne
ScottCloustonWilliamstown
AdamCockieSandringham
BenDaviesWilliamstown
LechFeatherstoneCoburg
KhanHaretukuFrankston
BenJolleyWilliamstown
AydenKennedyBox Hill Hawks
MarcLockBox Hill Hawks
CameronLockwoodWilliamstown
NickLowerFootscray
AlikMaginBendigo
AdamMarconWilliamstown
NickMeeseWilliamstown
DavidMirraBox Hill Hawks
DanielNoonanPort Melbourne
EvanPanozzaCasey Scorpions
TobyPinwillPort Melbourne
SamPlemingPort Melbourne
JulianRowePort Melbourne
JoshuaScipionePort Melbourne
ScottSherlockWerribee Tigers
LukeTynanPort Melbourne
ShaneValentiPort Melbourne
SANFL FINAL SQUAD

KoryBeardSturt
JonathonBeechWest Adelaide
JaceBodeNorwood
JamesBoydWoodville West Torrens
KeeganBrooksbySouth Adelaide
IanCallinanAdelaide
MichaelCoadSturt
JoelCrossSouth Adelaide
BrettEddySouth Adelaide
LukeHabelCentral District
BenHansenSturt
LukeJarradWoodville West Torrens
ZaneKirkwoodSturt
NickLiddleSouth Adelaide
TimMcIntyreCentral District
ToddMilesNorth Adelaide
LeighRyswykNorth Adelaide
JarrodSchillerCentral District
JayShannonNorth Adelaide
StevenSummertonPort Adelaide
PaulThomasCentral District
DanielWebbWest Adelaide
MichaelWundkeWoodville West Torrens

 

[Periphery]

Feels like we have gone full circle about 50 times already though!

I agree, we do need to pick up the pace if we are ever going to reach last years greatness.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Reaching last years greatness was all about the pre-season draft, so here we go.

PSD:
First Pick: Harley Bennell offer him the big bucks and get him to tell all over clubs to piss off.
Second Pick: Tom Michell - reason ^^
Third Pick: Jonathon O'Rourke - reason ^^^^
Fourth Pick: NATHAN FYFE

Discuss.

 

[Dopey BJ]

Can't see any change (He'll be back)

 

[Barrels]

View attachment 59235

Can't see any change (He'll be back)

 

[L_W_P]

Deals for Shiel, O'Rourke, Jaksch and/or Patton have come up about 15 times now hahahahaaha

Pick Trades -

Our 1st + Armo + Gilbert + Hayes as a coach
for
Sheil + ORourke + Jacksh + Patton + End of first round compo.

Our 3rd
for
Tim Membrey

Cut/trade - Dennis-Lane, Dunnell, Jones, Maister, Milera, Minchington, Murdoch, Ray, Ross, Shenton, Simpkin and Siposs

Draft any/all of - Wright/Goddard/Lever/McCartin/Durdin/Brayshaw, Tom Lamb and Lachie Weller

Rookie list Saad, Mason Cox and Matt Sully

Free Agents -

Let Gwilt go as a FA.

Get Patty D to confirm he will walk next year for 10mil over 8 years.

Get Fyfe to walk into the PSD with a price on his head and a warning to Brisbane.

Sign James Frawley on 1 year deal for 500k. Renegotiate after Melbourne are stiffed on Compo to 5 years for 4 mil.

----------

Just about to send our mid season recommendations through to Trout. Anything I've missed ?

 

[HayesTheChamp]

Pick Trades -

Our 1st + Armo + Gilbert + Hayes as a coach
for
Sheil + ORourke + Jacksh + Patton + End of first round compo.

Our 3rd
for
Tim Membrey

Cut/trade - Dennis-Lane, Dunnell, Jones, Maister, Milera, Minchington, Murdoch, Ray, Ross, Shenton, Simpkin and Siposs

Draft any/all of - Wright/Goddard/Lever/McCartin/Durdin/Brayshaw, Tom Lamb and Lachie Weller

Rookie list Saad, Mason Cox and Matt Sully

Free Agents -

Let Gwilt go as a FA.

Get Patty D to confirm he will walk next year for 10mil over 8 years.

Get Fyfe to walk into the PSD with a price on his head and a warning to Brisbane.

Sign James Frawley on 1 year deal for 500k. Renegotiate after Melbourne are stiffed on Compo to 5 years for 4 mil.

----------

Just about to send our mid season recommendations through to Trout. Anything I've missed ?

Perfect, maybe its time we had a new list manager. A new and improved version, Pelchen 2.0

 

[Barrels]

No to Membrey; too short for a KPF, not aerobically gifted enough for midfield.

 

[L_W_P]

No to Membrey; too short for a KPF, not aerobically gifted enough for midfield.

You've changed man... What happened to the fun loving free spirit that didn't judge a forward by his height?

Bring that guy back man....

 

[Dopey BJ]

You've changed man... What happened to the fun loving free spirit that didn't judge a forward by his height?

Bring that guy back man....


View attachment 59257

Hate to say I told you so

 

[Periphery]

Sign James Frawley on 1 year deal for 500k. Renegotiate after Melbourne are stiffed on Compo to 5 years for 4 mil.

I disagree with this bit. Instead we should sign him for 1 year and then trade him back to Melbourne for their first pick.

 

[Barrels]

Hate to say I told you so

Oh sod off

If we cant find a place for Simpkin or Siposs cause they're one-string inbetweeners, why would we get Membrey?

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

From Inside football (Brett Anderson) drafts if GC/GWS didn't exist.







http://www.sen.com.au/inside-footba...3/What-if-Gold-Coast--GWS-never-existed/65050

 

[ike2112]

Totally. A Kiwi tall forward. Let me ask you, would you rather Khan or Beau as a backup 2nd tall? I'd take Kahn every day of the week.

Doubt it would happen, not least of all that he now hates the Saints and his motivating factor is proving us wrong!

 

[ike2112]

Then let's fast forward a couple of years from there, and potentially this is what we'd be looking at;

FB: Webster - Delaney - Roberton
HB: Wright - Bruce - Shenton
RK: Hickey - Steven - Dunstan
CR: Newnes - Shiel - Savage*
HF: Saunders - Stanley - Templeton
FF: Billings - McKenzie - Longer
Int: Weller - Curren - Acres - Miller
Em: Schache - Markworth - Ross - (Saad)

Gone: Hayes, Riewoldt, Montagna, Dempster, Fisher, Schneider, Maister, Gwilt, Jones, TDL, Minchington.

Crossroads: Ray, Armitage, Murdoch, Geary, Gilbert, Simpkin, White, Lee, Dunell, Milera, Siposs, Pierce, Holmes.

* I genuinely think he'll make it when settled and with a bit more quality around him.

Thoughts?

Looks worryingly average at best.

Bearing in mind, goal is the flag... honestly compare that list of names to Hayes, NDS, Goddard, Gram, (Ball), Kosi, Schneider 3+yrs ago, Dempster 3+yrs ago, Gilbert 3+yrs ago, Roo, Joey, Fisher 3+yrs ago.

Out of that list of players, I'd say the best we have:
Newnes - potentially A-grade if playing off HB, not looking like the guts is where he's suited
Dunstan - potential A-grade ball-getter but not a game winner
Curren - tagger and ball-winner
Billings - great attacking talent, A-grader but not a focal point
Hickey - potential top 8 ruckman
Steven - A-grade on-baller, an outside man who can do the inside stuff
Sheil - A-grade on-baller, an inside man who can do the outside stuff

We still look very short at the back, lacking options forward, and potentially have little more run & carry ability than is already on the list. In fact it looks like somewhere between 2013 Roos and 2013 Doggies.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Looks worryingly average at best.

Bearing in mind, goal is the flag... honestly compare that list of names to Hayes, NDS, Goddard, Gram, (Ball), Kosi, Schneider 3+yrs ago, Dempster 3+yrs ago, Gilbert 3+yrs ago, Roo, Joey, Fisher 3+yrs ago.

Out of that list of players, I'd say the best we have:
Newnes - potentially A-grade if playing off HB, not looking like the guts is where he's suited
Dunstan - potential A-grade ball-getter but not a game winner
Curren - tagger and ball-winner
Billings - great attacking talent, A-grader but not a focal point
Hickey - potential top 8 ruckman
Steven - A-grade on-baller, an outside man who can do the inside stuff
Sheil - A-grade on-baller, an inside man who can do the outside stuff

We still look very short at the back, lacking options forward, and potentially have little more run & carry ability than is already on the list. In fact it looks like somewhere between 2013 Roos and 2013 Doggies.

Actually agree with you on most of that, when i looked at our under 25's group the other day we have a few average types and IMO this won't be popular amongst this board but we're in for another tough two years near the bottom at least. Which personally as much as it sucks i don't mind build up a real solid premiership list.

2013: 16th
2014: Bottom 3
2015: Bottom 3
2016: Bottom 6

My opinion anyway, no one needs to agree..

 

[Mowman]

Actually agree with you on most of that, when i looked at our under 25's group the other day we have a few average types and IMO this won't be popular amongst this board but we're in for another tough two years near the bottom at least. Which personally as much as it sucks i don't mind build up a real solid premiership list.

2013: 16th
2014: Bottom 3
2015: Bottom 3
2016: Bottom 6

My opinion anyway, no one needs to agree..

Yep I agree, Lenny maybe this year & Roo maybe end of next year its going to get a lot worse before it gets better

 

[aussierulesrules]

Actually agree with you on most of that, when i looked at our under 25's group the other day we have a few average types

The thing is though that it's very hard to predict with any certainty how everyone will develop and while several/many in our under 25yo group may not look all that flash at the moment, it might look a lot better in a couple of years time if a couple of them "do a Jack Steven" and go from having shown a bit at a young age, to suddenly winning the B&F at 23yo.

With the opportunities many of them are likely to be given I expect at least a couple will really surprise and perform a lot better than most expect, like a Steven, Joey, Fisher, Gwilt, Milne did, who were all taken at pick 37 to the rookie/supp list and probably not initially expected to do a lot.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

The thing is though that it's very hard to predict with any certainty how everyone will develop and while several/many in our under 25yo group may not look all that flash at the moment, it might look a lot better in a couple of years time if a couple of them "do a Jack Steven" and go from having shown a bit at a young age, to suddenly winning the B&F at 23yo.

With the opportunities many of them are likely to be given I expect at least a couple will really surprise and perform a lot better than most expect, like a Steven, Joey, Fisher, Gwilt, Milne did, who were all taken at pick 37 to the rookie/supp list and probably not initially expected to do a lot.

All valid points ARR.. But even if most of those players under 25 games come along i still think we're in for a few more tough years. Please don't get me wrong i'm not giving up on any of the young guys just a few have a fair few question marks like Dunell, Simpkin, Minchington as examples.

 

[Barrels]

All valid points ARR.. But even if most of those players under 25 games come along i still think we're in for a few more tough years. Please don't get me wrong i'm not giving up on any of the young guys just a few have a fair few question marks like Dunell, Simpkin, Minchington as examples.

I had a lot of question marks over a bloke called Leigh Montagna once...

 

[ike2112]

All of them are average besides Kurt Tippett and maybe Westhoff + Mayne.

Given what our list is going to be like in 3 years, you wouldn't want Justin Westhoff for a pick in the 40s or a rookie pick?

He's not an average player; he's the level below A-grade I'd say and very versatile. Bear in mind that this is someone to replace Maister...

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

I had a lot of question marks over a bloke called Leigh Montagna once...

I hope my original post didn't sound like i am giving up hope on any players as i am not, my point was i just think we're in for a bit more pain and think it'll take another few years before we get a very good list together.

I'm just convinced it'll take another 2-3 years down the bottom, especially if Riewoldt retires at the end of 2014 which isn't out of the question.

 

[ike2112]

2013: 16th
2014: Bottom 3
2015: Bottom 3
2016: Bottom 6

My opinion anyway, no one needs to agree..

I actually think we're a chance to go bottom 3 for all three of those years. But then have a sudden bounce up to the 8-10 range as all of the talent accrued over four offseasons from 2013 to 2016 contribute (inc. maybe a FA or two in '17).

It seems that the teams who contend in a wave/spike of improvement (e.g. not your perennial challengers) do so on the back of not one rebuild phase, but two. The first happens as a list rebuild, and gets the team some stability and maybe finals, but their quality doesn't run deep enough. Then when the drop-off happens, the club tops up with a few more talents and then the combination of the mature A-graders and the newer recruits, makes a top-4 team.
Unfortunately I feel the Saints left their rebuild (and maybe their peak) too late, our older players will have retired by the time we're ready again.

If you look at our GF tilts in 2009 and 2010, around half the team had been around for the challenge 5 years earlier. The others had either matured into the lineup or been recruited to the club since then. So you can almost split our recruitment up into two waves; the first was with Lenny, NDS, Ball, Roo, Kosi, Goddard etc. The next was the emergency of Joey, recruitment of others that created our 2009/10 beast of a lineup.

So when looking to challenge for finals/GF in the period 2018-2020, it’s not just a case of those recruited in the 5 years immediately prior being key contributors, but those who were on the list 5+ years prior being top players. Looking at our list right now, I think the dearth of talent developed/retained and lower picks we’ve had over the last few years will still be taking its toll.
If you look at the 2013 list, there’s not a 2004 equivalent of Hayes, NDS, Goddard, Kosi or Roo on there. Jack Steven is perhaps the only player on the 2013 list, that most other AFL clubs would want to have on their list by 2018.

I therefore think we'll be poor for two or three more years, spike into finals footy in 2018 and 2019, but then there is a risk that we fall away for a couple seasons before going a good run at it from 2022 onwards as Dunstan, Acres etc are still around their prime but we've had a lot more A-graders recruited by then.

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

I actually think we're a chance to go bottom 3 for all three of those years. But then have a sudden bounce up to the 8-10 range as all of the talent accrued over four offseasons from 2013 to 2016 contribute (inc. maybe a FA or two in '17).

It seems that the teams who contend in a wave/spike of improvement (e.g. not your perennial challengers) do so on the back of not one rebuild phase, but two. The first happens as a list rebuild, and gets the team some stability and maybe finals, but their quality doesn't run deep enough. Then when the drop-off happens, the club tops up with a few more talents and then the combination of the mature A-graders and the newer recruits, makes a top-4 team.
Unfortunately I feel the Saints left their rebuild (and maybe their peak) too late, our older players will have retired by the time we're ready again.

If you look at our GF tilts in 2009 and 2010, around half the team had been around for the challenge 5 years earlier. The others had either matured into the lineup or been recruited to the club since then. So you can almost split our recruitment up into two waves; the first was with Lenny, NDS, Ball, Roo, Kosi, Goddard etc. The next was the emergency of Joey, recruitment of others that created our 2009/10 beast of a lineup.

So when looking to challenge for finals/GF in the period 2018-2020, it’s not just a case of those recruited in the 5 years immediately prior being key contributors, but those who were on the list 5+ years prior being top players. Looking at our list right now, I think the dearth of talent developed/retained and lower picks we’ve had over the last few years will still be taking its toll.
If you look at the 2013 list, there’s not a 2004 equivalent of Hayes, NDS, Goddard, Kosi or Roo on there. Jack Steven is perhaps the only player on the 2013 list, that most other AFL clubs would want to have on their list by 2018.

I therefore think we'll be poor for two or three more years, spike into finals footy in 2018 and 2019, but then there is a risk that we fall away for a couple seasons before going a good run at it from 2022 onwards as Dunstan, Acres etc are still around their prime but we've had a lot more A-graders recruited by then.

No doubt we'll be bottom 3 over the next 3 years - we'll feel it as a club once Hayes and Reiwoldt retire, especially Reiwoldt. But on the positive side we'll have 3 more top 5 draft picks not to mention another 3 more 2nd round picks as well as one or two free agents to add to the list and we'll have the makings of a decent team.

As we move up the ladder we have to ensure that our first draft pick, be it pick 4 or pick 14, is used wisely. That is not what we did in 2004-2010 and is a major reason we are where we are. We shot a load of blanks over that period *sigh*