List Mgmt. 2017 Trade & FA Targets Part 2

[StCicatriz]

I still think we'll land 1 superstar BUT if we dont i firmly believe with 2 high picks in this draft we land some serious talent. Mids that could be stars on the rise in a couple years. And no 1.5M price tag.
Our team has to be able to naturally evolve to a point of contention anyway. Been many years of rebuilding already.

2013: billings, dunstan, acres. what you see now is 3 and a half seasons of development
2014: mccartin, goddard, mckenzie. what you see now is 2 and half seasons of development

do you want to more of those, or one of kelly whos good to go now

or do you wanna wait 3 seasons for what we already have now?

 

[PaddysurDaddy]

I think we will have the picks to satisfy GWS if he nominates us without just throwing away both this years picks. If we give them pick 4 and next years first it should be plenty. Pies got to give up pick 7 and the following years first rounder for Treloar (and a GWS 2nd round pick back when they weren't playing finals) who was probably their best or second best mid at that time along with Shiel. That's the precedent for a high caliber young player.

If he nominates we need to give fair value but our fans seem to have no ability to think rationally when they see a good player. I want flags and wasting picks we don't need to give up doesn't help that.

Yeah our hawk's first and next years is fair.

The best part about this whole thing is like sledge says, even if we get no one one we've got two first rounders with Foggarty, Obrien, Rayner, Hunter-clarke, Sam hayes etc and more cap room. Pretty bloody exciting times.

 

[gringo2011]

The advantage imo of trading for someone like Kelly is that he has maybe 10 years left in him. He can be the core of the midfield for all this time. While I see the attraction with pursuing a free agent like Martin its a shorter term option.

What do people think it would take to get Kelly if he wanted to come?

Im hoping we hang onto one of our first rounders so im thinking something like this is reasonable.

One first rounder
Longer or Hickey. They need a replacement for Mumford soon.
Savage. They need depth and Shaw is getting on a bit.

I reckon we should try to do the same deal as Collingwood, if the Hawks pick is 4 for instance it's a huge upgrade on the pick 7 the Pies gave and if they insist on another we give up the 2018 pick and take our original pick into the draft this year. Ask for a second rounder for this year back. That's a better deal than they got for Treloar and they gave a much higher pick up as a second rounder too. It's a lot for us to pay but probably fair for the form he's currently playing in.

 

[Joffaboy]

but hey you get to go to tassie a handful of times a year

What about the lolnorf fans with the ' Come to lolnorf Dusty'.

For a start nice kick in the guts to your players, who are playing him.

Second who wants to go to that rabble.

Get your team to beat the team the player you want plays for, like umm Saints did to GWS.

lolnorf fans. Sad. Sick

 

[bird_man]

Just reporting the facts , maam

So am I though. And that's that we have won the clearance count in 70% of ourgames.

 

[gringo2011]

2013: billings, dunstan, acres. what you see now is 3 and a half seasons of development
2014: mccartin, goddard, mckenzie. what you see now is 2 and half seasons of development

do you want to more of those, or one of kelly whos good to go now

or do you wanna wait 3 seasons for what we already have now?

That's simplistic when players like Bont and Joel Selwood made immediate impacts coming from the top 10 in the draft. Powell- Pepper, Hayward...even Two meter Peter have come in and made immediate impacts. We just recruited badly if we wanted immediate impact.

 

[VDS66]

What about the lolnorf fans with the ' Come to lolnorf Dusty'.

For a start nice kick in the guts to your players, who are playing him.

Second who wants to go to that rabble.

Get your team to beat the team the player you want plays for, like umm Saints did to GWS.

lolnorf fans. Sad. Sick

I hope Jelly was watching that.

 

[StCicatriz]

That's simplistic when players like Bont and Joel Selwood made immediate impacts coming from the top 10 in the draft. Powell- Pepper, Hayward...even Two meter Peter have come in and made immediate impacts. We just recruited badly if we wanted immediate impact.

we have yet to have a first year player reach that level of impact as a midfielder

gresham is the closest to having immediate impact straight out of the draft but he's playing out of the pocket

and we have a sample size of 6 drafts and 5 and a half seasons

i'm sorry but the form line is not there that we will grab a bont, selwood, powell-pepper, hayward or 2mp and for them to come in and go bang!

you're basically expecting us to go WHACK! and do something we just havent done for nearly a decade

what makes you think its going to change?

 

[STK2020]

2013: billings, dunstan, acres. what you see now is 3 and a half seasons of development
2014: mccartin, goddard, mckenzie. what you see now is 2 and half seasons of development

do you want to more of those, or one of kelly whos good to go now

or do you wanna wait 3 seasons for what we already have now?

We could get lucky like Bont , Cripps , Kelly ( oh wait ) in 2013
Or
Lever , Heeney , Wright , Miller 2014

 

[StCicatriz]

We could get lucky like Bont , Cripps , Kelly ( oh wait ) in 2013
Or
Lever , Heeney , Wright , Miller 2014

lol we havent done that in 6 drafts and 5 and half seasons, even with high picks in the drafts you just mentioned

we couldnt draft those players, even though they were at out disposal (kelly a-side) and develop them

so why do people suddenly think we are going to do it now?

 

[STK2020]

So am I though. And that's that we have won the clearance count in 70% of ourgames.

Got me stuffed , we are poo currently.

 

[gringo2011]

we have yet to have a first year player reach that level of impact as a midfielder

gresham is the closest to having immediate impact straight out of the draft but he's playing out of the pocket

and we have a sample size of 6 drafts and 5 and a half seasons

i'm sorry but the form line is not there that we will grab a bont, selwood, powell-pepper, hayward or 2mp and for them to come in and go bang!

you're basically expecting us to go WHACK! and do something we just havent done for nearly a decade

what makes you think its going to change?

Then we need new recruiters. I want Kelly ideally but the idea that the draft is a poor place to mine talent- (especially if the hawks pick stays top 4) is not accurate.

 

[StCicatriz]

Then we need new recruiters. I want Kelly ideally but the idea that the draft is a poor place to mine talent- (especially if the hawks pick stays top 4) is not accurate.

how do you know the issue is recruitment and not development?

i mean cmon, you cant refute the strike rate and outcomes of what has occurred over half a decade to date with the existing recruitment team and the development program in our football dept

you know what will happen in your scenario, you'll sack the entire recruitment team, replace them with new personel who do not have the body of work behind them to make a reliable decision as they did not watch or interview these guys over the last 2-3 seasons as under-agers. but you're going to throw 2 first round picks at that over josh kelly a known entity. then you're going to have this unrealistic expectation that they find a bont or selwood. then in 3 years time when they're currently performing like billings, acres, dunstan, mckenzie, mccartin you'll be posting about the frustration that they havent come on like JOSH KELLY! THE VERY BLOKE YOU COULD HAVE HAD! meanwhile stevens will be close to retirement with his best football gone and roberton/carlisle etc not too far behind

 

[RWBlyf]

I hope Jelly was watching that.

No doubt he "supports them" remember

 

[bird_man]

Got me stuffed , we are poo currently.

I just think we lack polish more than anything. We've got guys that can win the footy but we need players exactly like Martin or Kelly who can run away from a contest and and hit up a target more than anything.

 

[bird_man]

We could get lucky like Bont , Cripps , Kelly ( oh wait ) in 2013
Or
Lever , Heeney , Wright , Miller 2014

Funny thing is, if Melbourne hadn't of traded pick two to GWS, then we would have had Kelly.

 

[STK2020]

Funny thing is, if Melbourne hadn't of traded pick two to GWS, then we would have had Kelly.

Think im gonna throw up

 

[StCicatriz]

our strength over the last 6 off-seasons has been identifying existing talent at other clubs and trading them in. we are incredibly good at it and arguably the best in the comp

its been better than our drafting and development

you need to back in the thing with the better strike rate

i think its incredibly silly to think going to the draft automatically means a bont, selwood, kelly etc.

its the same type of discussion that occurred 10 years ago, the only difference is the names have changed from chris judd/gary abblett etc.

 

[STK2020]

Interested to know ...
Hypothetical, if we do get Kelly does that make us top 4 2018 ?

 

[Crusty Undies]

performing like billings, acres, dunstan, mckenzie, mccartin

Okay these aren't really all developing at the same rate to be fair. And if we had someone come in and perform like JB is at the moment I would be quite happy. Doing very well at the moment unless I'm missing something.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Think im gonna throw up

We almost had him anyway. GWS were undecided between him and Billings until pretty much draft day iirc.

 

[StCicatriz]

Okay these aren't really all developing at the same rate to be fair. And if we had someone come in and perform like JB is at the moment I would be quite happy. Doing very well at the moment unless I'm missing something.

performing at JB's level now or JB's level in his first or 2nd season?

because if you are talking now you're going to have to wait until 2021 before the new draftee hits that level. by then you need to find replacements for jack steven, roberton, carlisle oh and btw the existing talent you have might be sick of waiting if we are not challenging for a flag. suddenly you have the likes of ross qualifying for free agency

 

[Premium]

I was all over Zac Williams last year, he's seriously good and getting better but just signed a long term contract.

unlucky for us he signed a long term contract because he would of been a good fit for us.

 

[STK2020]

performing at JB's level now or JB's level in his first or 2nd season?

because if you are talking now you're going to have to wait until 2021 before the new draftee hits that level. by then you need to find replacements for jack steven, roberton, carlisle oh and btw the existing talent you have might be sick of waiting if we are not challenging for a flag. suddenly you have the likes of ross qualifying for free agency

If we are contenders in 2020 as per clubs plan Steven , Carlisle, Roberton will all be signing new 3 year deals because they will all be under 30 . With 2017 kids all hopefully around the 50+ game mark , 2018/19 kids progressing nicely . Our new recruit Tom Lynch(ex Suns ) pulling on the jumper for the first time .
Seb Ross, Billings , Gresham already signed extended contracts back in 2018 .
And why ?????
We didnt over commit with an overs contract before our time is ready .

 

[StCicatriz]

If we are contenders in 2020 as per clubs plan Steven , Carlisle, Roberton will all be signing new 3 year deals because they will all be under 30 . With 2017 kids all hopefully around the 50+ game mark , 2018/19 kids progressing nicely . Our new recruit Tom Lynch(ex Suns ) pulling on the jumper for the first time .
Seb Ross, Billings , Gresham already signed extended contracts back in 2018 .
And why ?????
We didnt over commit with an overs contract before our time is ready .

so if the existing group is going to take us there anyway, why not spend the money now and get kelly to help that existing group? rather than hoping in 3 years time you can get lynch or who ever else?

the counter argument to not getting kelly is a bunch of scenarios with no existing trend to support that they will occur. we either suddenly draft 2 kids and develop them into amazing players when we have yet to do that or we are getting other players in trade. or kelly is somehow injured.

but we want to ignore the known entity that is what kelly is producing now and what we have been able to achieve to date from the draft which is of a significantly lesser output than kelly

its like me coming up to you with two options:
- i give you a lotto ticket everyday for 5 years in the hope you can win millions, or
- i give you a job at 400k a year for 5 years, which would actually get you millions pre-tax.

what you gonna do?