List Mgmt. 2017 Trade & FA Targets Part 2

[FlyingSledghamer]

2013: billings, dunstan, acres. what you see now is 3 and a half seasons of development
2014: mccartin, goddard, mckenzie. what you see now is 2 and half seasons of development

do you want to more of those, or one of kelly whos good to go now

or do you wanna wait 3 seasons for what we already have now?

Stop drinking and reread my post. Ofcourse i want to land the big kahuna burger but as i said if we dont were gona get some very top quality mids anyway in the draft.
Not such a bad thing.
As for this group we have now. Yes has been years of development and some should be further along but they could all click next year or the year after when most are av 50to100. And we'll either have 3 - 4 more top end mids developing OR we'll have a couple highly paid signings.
Teams gotta evolve regardless for us to contend anyway.
Look at Port the way the team matured this year as a whole.

 

[STK2020]

so if the existing group is going to take us there anyway, why not spend the money now and get kelly to help that existing group? rather than hoping in 3 years time you can get lynch or who ever else?

the counter argument to not getting kelly is a bunch of scenarios with no existing trend to support that they will occur. we either suddenly draft 2 kids and develop them into amazing players when we have yet to do that or we are getting other players in trade. or kelly is somehow injured.

but we want to ignore to known entity that is what kelly is producing now and what we have been able to achieve to date from the draft which is of a significantly lesser output than kelly

Remind me of how many flags Judd won Carlton , Ablett won Suns , Dangerfield won Geelong , Franklin won Sydney.
I can only think of one Tom Boyd and they got their flag through top end picks and good timing .

 

[StCicatriz]

Stop drinking and reread my post. Ofcourse i want to land the big kahuna burger but as i said if we dont were gona get some very top quality mids anyway in the draft.
Not such a bad thing.
As for this group we have now. Yes has been years of development and some should be further along but they could all click next year or the year after when most are av 50to100. And we'll either have 3 - 4 more top end mids developing OR we'll have a couple highly paid signings.
Teams gotta evolve regardless for us to contend anyway.
Look at Port the way the team matured this year as a whole.

how do you know thats going to be the case? how do you know they end up as top quality mids

oh and p.s. havent had a sip tonight ;-)

 

[bennymc7]

Steele's handball isn't within cooee of Banger's either, but I do agree they could be a great duo!

Dal Santo best hands I've ever seen, I'm a little young for vintage harvey but Dal never missed

 

[STK2020]

Josh Kelly alone will never win us a flag.
If we are that reliant on one sensational kid to get us over the line , guess whats gonna happen ? He will get knocked the F@#k out.
The flag will be won by his 21 evenly spread team mates with good skills .

 

[StCicatriz]

Remind me of how many flags Judd won Carlton , Ablett won Suns , Dangerfield won Geelong , Franklin won Sydney.
I can only think of one Tom Boyd and they got their flag through top end picks and good timing .

the football industry is changing, there is more emphasis now on player movement and less restrictions. there is also more control over how clubs can manage their cap

what is happening at other clubs is irrelevant anyways, the discussion topic is basically we go for kelly on big money or we go to the draft

so we need to consider OUR clubs strike rate at trading in talent vs drafting and developing it

i would agree with you entirely if we had the strike rate of say the western bulldogs when it comes to drafting talent and developing it. as that would be a strength and you would play to it. but there is nothing to suggest we can do that. the form line over the last 6 drafts is that we pick the eyes out of it but the talent takes a good 4 years to develop before we can start to see something. none of it is at the level of the players that were mentioned say selwood/bont etc. so the idea that we will do that is unrealistic

i feel we are in sydney territory here where their biggest stength was identifying and trading in talent, that saw them take 2 flags. they were able to exploit the extra cap they had due to COLA. ameet has done wonders with out TPP and managing the cap. surely the time has come to exploit that before other clubs catch up to what we have started to do? its not every year you run into this unique set of circumstances AND have kelly OOC

 

[Premium]

Remind me of how many flags Judd won Carlton , Ablett won Suns , Dangerfield won Geelong , Franklin won Sydney.
I can only think of one Tom Boyd and they got their flag through top end picks and good timing .

It would be good to get 3 top line players one for the backline, Midfield and Forward line
May - Buntine - Corr - Lever
Kelly or Whitfield
Forwards ?

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

so if the existing group is going to take us there anyway, why not spend the money now and get kelly to help that existing group? rather than hoping in 3 years time you can get lynch or who ever else?

the counter argument to not getting kelly is a bunch of scenarios with no existing trend to support that they will occur. we either suddenly draft 2 kids and develop them into amazing players when we have yet to do that or we are getting other players in trade. or kelly is somehow injured.

but we want to ignore the known entity that is what kelly is producing now and what we have been able to achieve to date from the draft which is of a significantly lesser output than kelly

its like me coming up to you with two options:
- i give you a lotto ticket everyday for 5 years in the hope you can win millions, or
- i give you a job at 400k a year for 5 years, which would actually get you millions pre-tax.

what you gonna do?

You missed the point. Ofcourse the team with the big war chest is going to make the big plays for the big fishies that they been planning on catching for some time. And hooray to us if we can pull that off. BUT if that doesnt happen. The alternative is pretty good too.
Were perfectly positioned in this draft.
And tbh i'd be hoping were looking at possibly Adam Saad for next year, and theres a few others.
Were far from fkd list wise if we miss big kahuna this year.

 

[STK2020]

Dont mean to get all dramatic but.....
This Josh Kelly deal if it comes off could either make us or break us .
I just pray like all of us we get things right .
I wanna see a flag before i croak.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

how do you know thats going to be the case? how do you know they end up as top quality mids

oh and p.s. havent had a sip tonight ;-)

You dont 100% know. But you take the picks to the draft if you miss the big name signing. Thats what you do because theres no other choice!
I think hawks pick will be 4 or 5 if not better.
I think our pick will be 10 or 11.
I think we get end of 1st round for hickey and maybe some other moves
Theres going to be some top mids come our way regardless from this group. And no 1.5m price tag!
So we slowly develop our list from within.

 

[stfan]

The flag will be won by his 21 evenly spread team mates with good skills .

You are dreaming. There has never been a team with 21 evenly spread team mates with good skills.

For that matter there has never been a team with 21 evenly spread players in it period.

Please show mean one premiership team that did not have at least several guns in it.

St Kilda lacks enough out and out guns and in particular in the midfield. Steven is very good, but he is not elite. Roo is a gun, but is on the wrong side of 30.


We can recruit more average players, and even good players, but that will now make little difference to improving our team. We need some guns to take us to the top. with out them we make finals, but will have no impact.

 

[stfan]

This Josh Kelly deal if it comes off could either make us or break us .

Well we are already broken at present and so we might as well go for it.

 

[Roadto2018]

I snapchatted Acres to say we need to get kelly so expect an announcement he's signed with us in the coming days

 

[StCicatriz]

You dont 100% know. But you take the picks to the draft if you miss the big name signing. Thats what you do because theres no other choice!
I think hawks pick will be 4 or 5 if not better.
I think our pick will be 10 or 11.
I think we get end of 1st round for hickey and maybe some other moves
Theres going to be some top mids come our way regardless from this group. And no 1.5m price tag!
So we slowly develop our list from within.

There is nothing to suggest we can develop a kelly from the upcoming draft within the time frame we need to win a flag

What is the best example you've got?

Why are you so against a big offer to kelly?

 

[StCicatriz]

I snapchatted Acres to say we need to get kelly so expect an announcement he's signed with us in the coming days

Hahahahaha what was the photo of

 

[Roadto2018]

Hahahahaha what was the photo of

Was of Kelly collecting possession number 2826262682 tonight

 

[Kilroy]

Hahahahaha what was the photo of

 

[Ekomaira]

We could get lucky like Bont , Cripps , Kelly ( oh wait ) in 2013

jesus christ imagine that

then we'd just have to snag Billings from Melbourne or the Dogs

 

[Savage Kent]

I snapchatted Acres to say we need to get kelly so expect an announcement he's signed with us in the coming days

I snapchatted Carlisle as well and there was white line fever.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I must say those stats surprise me. I know we have won the clearances each time in the last 5 weeks and that includes 3 of last years top 4.

Maybe there just haven't been as many stoppages in our games?

Don't forget we were last for clearances I think after about 4 rounds.

So we're coming from a long way back.

How many times have we actually lost the clearance count though? I think those stats you originally showed might just be misleading.

EDIT: We have only lost the clearance count on 3 occasions all year and have won the last 5.

We got destroyed in the clearances against Collingwood 40 to 22 or so and we weren't much better against Melbourne. Those two games really hurt our overall numbers.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I believe that one of the main reasons a lot of our best young talent have taken longer than others to come on is that they had/have poor endurance and in this day and age you're just not likely to do very well until you have a decent tank.

Main examples who I believe are very talented, but have taken longer to come on than others who are equally talented, but have better endurance, are:
Paddy Mac (compare him to Hogan and 2MP, who both have elite endurance for their size)
Jack Billings (compare him to guys like Kelly, Macrae, Merrett and Hunter, who obviously have tanks)
Luke Dunstan
Jade Gresham (if he had a tank he'd be playing much more midfield, but even Paddy beat him in a time trial last summer!).

Injuries/illness have also played a big part in slowing down the development/progress and tank building of Paddy, Billings, Acres, Dunstan, Goddard and Webster in particular.

So I don't think we have a problem with identifying talent, but perhaps we need to put more stock in those with really good endurance (like Steele) and maybe think twice about drafting those who had one or more injuries leading into their drafts (eg. Paddy, Billings, Acres, Goddard, Webster, Spencer White) if we want them to have a better chance of coming on sooner, and/or not being injury-prone.

 

[VDS66]

You are dreaming. There has never been a team with 21 evenly spread team mates with good skills.

For that matter there has never been a team with 21 evenly spread players in it period.

Please show mean one premiership team that did not have at least several guns in it.

St Kilda lacks enough out and out guns and in particular in the midfield. Steven is very good, but he is not elite. Roo is a gun, but is on the wrong side of 30.


We can recruit more average players, and even good players, but that will now make little difference to improving our team. We need some guns to take us to the top. with out them we make finals, but will have no impact.

Collingwood came close in 2010.

 

[bisazc887]

Dont mean to get all dramatic but.....
This Josh Kelly deal if it comes off could either make us or break us .
I just pray like all of us we get things right .
I wanna see a flag before i croak.

Disagree.

Whether our current crop of kids steps up around him, Steven, Carlisle and maybe another established player we get will either make or break us.

 

[crasha301]

Hawks pick & our 2018 2nd rounder for kelly.



On SM-G900I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Premium]

Disagree.

Whether our current crop of kids steps up around him, Steven, Carlisle and maybe another established player we get will either make or break us.

Kelly is the one we would love to get and one free agent / Dustin Martin - seeing that they say we lost interest in Fyfe , it would be huge for our club and another backman -May or Lever


what a midfield Dusty - Kelly - Steven - Steele - Ross - Acres - Koby Stevens