I highly doubt he is bid on at 3 and if so we will know just how highly Freo rate him. Maybe he is a worthy pick 3?
Mega Thread 2019 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread #2
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I highly doubt he is bid on at 3 and if so we will know just how highly Freo rate him. Maybe he is a worthy pick 3?
Also, masters of its understood.
A pick 3 bid is unlikely but a bid with their next pick at 8 is much more likely. It's much closer to the perceived worth of Henry. Would Freo let him go? Unlikely.
Unless there's some pick swapping gymnastics that goes on we going to match a top 10 pick for Henry imo.
If the Dees stuff up GWS and us then I think both teams will have long memories.
I think we should be trying to move up the draft order but if we can't or the price is too high to do so lets play it out and see what happens. I'm excited that we have dibs on a player that is being talked about as a top 10 pick!
Yeah, I agree. I think that we should prepare ourselves for the idea that we get two guys ranked in the top 15 this draft (matched Henry bid and whoever else we get) instead of the the three it was looking like if a matched Henry bid came after pick 10.
We'll still have at least two super exciting talents coming into the team next year.
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As per Clems Knee 's excellent suggestion I had a read of the Resources, Rules and Regulations: A Guide to the Draft, Trading and Free Agency in the AFL thread on the drafting board. Re going in with 5+ draft picks and yet still end up promoting Hughes and Giro to main list contracts:
If my understanding of section 10 of the rules is correct, there are two ways a category A rookie can get onto the senior list besides being delisted and redrafted:
1) On list lodgement 2 day you notify the AFL you are moving a player from a rookie to a main list contract. Your last live draft pick is then consumed.
2) In-between the conclusion of the Main Draft and the end of the day on which list lodgement 3 is due. Which as far as I can tell is like a 3 hour window* priro to the PSD itself.
This means as of right now both Hugh and Giro are still on the rookie list, and that Carter is still on the Cat B for that matter. So if 2) above is something you can actually do then we could carry 5 live picks into the draft, have picks 58 and 69 be absorbed by a Henry bid then simply pass on the two picks that appear at the end of the order in their place (or use them to cover NGA bids). If they want Carter moved to the main list, or they want 4 picks they can actually use, then North will have to be delisted and redrafted as a rookie.
*The wording is odd and seems to imply a rookie listed player has to have removed themselves from the list first by applying for the pre-season draft themselves. Have look for yourselves:
AFL Rules 2019 said:
10.11 (a) A Club may apply to the AFL to transfer a Player or Players from its Rookie List onto its Primary List:
(i) on the day when its Primary List is lodged with the AFL prior to the National Draft Selection Meeting under Rule 6.1 by lodging with the AFL the form prescribed in Schedule 1 as Form 33. In which case, the Club shall forfeit its last selection or, if more than one player, its last and each previous draft selection at the National AFL Draft Selection meeting.
(ii) in the case of a Category B Rookie, under Rule 26.1(b); or
(iii) at any time between the National Draft Selection Meeting and the day when its Primary List is lodged with the AFL prior to the Pre-Season Draft Selection Meeting under Rule 7.1, if a Player’s name has been deleted from that Club’s List under Rule 7.6 by lodging with the AFL the form prescribed in Schedule 1 as Form 33.
If my understanding of section 10 of the rules is correct, there are two ways a category A rookie can get onto the senior list besides being delisted and redrafted:
1) On list lodgement 2 day you notify the AFL you are moving a player from a rookie to a main list contract. Your last live draft pick is then consumed.
2) In-between the conclusion of the Main Draft and the end of the day on which list lodgement 3 is due. Which as far as I can tell is like a 3 hour window* priro to the PSD itself.
This means as of right now both Hugh and Giro are still on the rookie list, and that Carter is still on the Cat B for that matter. So if 2) above is something you can actually do then we could carry 5 live picks into the draft, have picks 58 and 69 be absorbed by a Henry bid then simply pass on the two picks that appear at the end of the order in their place (or use them to cover NGA bids). If they want Carter moved to the main list, or they want 4 picks they can actually use, then North will have to be delisted and redrafted as a rookie.
*The wording is odd and seems to imply a rookie listed player has to have removed themselves from the list first by applying for the pre-season draft themselves. Have look for yourselves:
AFL Rules 2019 said:
10.11 (a) A Club may apply to the AFL to transfer a Player or Players from its Rookie List onto its Primary List:
(i) on the day when its Primary List is lodged with the AFL prior to the National Draft Selection Meeting under Rule 6.1 by lodging with the AFL the form prescribed in Schedule 1 as Form 33. In which case, the Club shall forfeit its last selection or, if more than one player, its last and each previous draft selection at the National AFL Draft Selection meeting.
(ii) in the case of a Category B Rookie, under Rule 26.1(b); or
(iii) at any time between the National Draft Selection Meeting and the day when its Primary List is lodged with the AFL prior to the Pre-Season Draft Selection Meeting under Rule 7.1, if a Player’s name has been deleted from that Club’s List under Rule 7.6 by lodging with the AFL the form prescribed in Schedule 1 as Form 33.
Snuffaluphagus
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Looking at the current draft order, I think we may have to give up on the idea of trading back in to the first round after a Henry bid (something I've been spruiking for us to try to do).
The only picks I see as gettable would be GC 15 and Brisbane 16 which means there is going to be some ridiculous price on trying to get those picks (supply and demand). Seems every club is trying to get back into the first round. Both GC and Brisbane can just sit back and watch the bids come in.
Really the only way we get back into the first is hoping a Henry bid comes later and later and we can do 22 and a future pick with some points coming back.
There was a Carlton dude who came on here saying they would be happy trading out of this years first round but I dont see why they would trade out of a draft like that.
Simplest, best, but more boring plan for us is going to be hold the cards till draft night then make plays based on the way it plays out
The only picks I see as gettable would be GC 15 and Brisbane 16 which means there is going to be some ridiculous price on trying to get those picks (supply and demand). Seems every club is trying to get back into the first round. Both GC and Brisbane can just sit back and watch the bids come in.
Really the only way we get back into the first is hoping a Henry bid comes later and later and we can do 22 and a future pick with some points coming back.
There was a Carlton dude who came on here saying they would be happy trading out of this years first round but I dont see why they would trade out of a draft like that.
Simplest, best, but more boring plan for us is going to be hold the cards till draft night then make plays based on the way it plays out
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If Gold coast want another top 10 pick, try trading 10 for 15,20.
I like the pick swap with freo that has been suggested that sees gws trade you pick 6 for 2 seconds in 2020 etc, however time will tell if that happens or not. North Melbourne also want our pick 6.
Very likely the plan.
The only prob I foresee is that we have 6 picks (7,10,22,58,69,79) but only 3 list spots. We have a couple of days to sort that out but seems we have ended up with more picks than we need.
St Kilda have bugger all picks. What about a simple trade; 51 > 58, 69 (69 will move up a few spots if not chewed up by points with Port having about four picks in the 60’s for their Academy fella Mead so would likely be 58 & 64).
Then as you say hold till draft night.
At our first pick which will be 7/8 we can see if the likes of Geelong, Brisbane & GCS are interested in buying pick 10/11 for a premium. If the player they desperately want and rate higher is still on the board when it comes to 7/8 we can trade 10/11.
Alternatively as the draft moves into the teens we offer 22 & 2020 2nd to move into the 16-18 range (get a 2020 3rd as change for our 2020 2nd).
eh yuck tbh. That would basically be us losing the opportunity to get a pick 7, 10, plus Henry, and instead have pick 7, Henry (he would be bid on before 15) and pick 20.
It's like, spending pick 10 on Henry if somebody deems he's worth pick 8 is not actually that bad a scenario that we need to work around it. The strength of our position is the "possibility" to get Henry for massive unders, but totally fine if we don't.
Snuffaluphagus
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That’s my ideal I think
On the Henry bid, I’m not giving 10 up unless some kind of freebie deal like it’s been discussed with GWS.
I’m willing to take the gamble that Melbourne and Carlton and talking shit to the media to try to pressure us into overpaying to upgrade 10, especially if Jackson is going top 5 then there is going to be some very nice options at their picks.
Worst case scenario is Henry takes up a top 10 pick and we have 22 and all our futures to get back into the first - not a bad deal really.
Best case scenario by holding 10 is Henry slides to 15+ and we can use 22 and futures to add to Henry and our two top 10s. No reason to jump at shadows re Henry, sometimes you gotta know when to hold em
All this hype about Stephens, I'd be more than happy to grab DEVEN ROBERTSON , the guy won the larke medal and averaged 30 disposals a game plus he's local, I would also try and get LUKE JACKSON ,the guy could be anything from rucking ,defending or forward. Stephens is also only 69kg, a lightweight ,Robertson is already big bodied. Henry of course ,Rivers if available. Would rookie Sokol ,as backup for our injury prone forwards.
WA has the players this year plus no go home factor.
WA has the players this year plus no go home factor.
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- May 27, 2013
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can Robertson kick tho
genuine question I've heard things
genuine question I've heard things
Snuffaluphagus
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Kicking definitely doesnt seem to be a strong suite but something that doesnt get talked about much is his off-ball stuff. His work without the ball is like AB, incredible. They really are two very similar players and our midfield would be so strong with both of them in it I feel
Stephens plays well against men and will only get stronger and heavier. His skills are great. Still would be happy with Robertson and Henry
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Kinda reminds me of a younger Taylor Adams
For mine, Robertson can kick when not in congestion and has decent penetration. In congestion, if he kicks, he tends to just bomb it a bit. However, his handballing in confined space is pretty good. He also tends not to be kicking for goal but is often the one before in the chain.
Robertson is pretty fast (apparently set 2.98 for 20m in a trial earlier in the year) also great with repeat efforts and racks the ball up with ease averaging over 30 possessions a game and often getting close to 40. He also is tackling machine and this I reckon gives his fellow players a lift; Roberston is a player who is up for the fight all the time.
Stephens highlights look great and him motoring past people at SANFl level is awesome to behold. His numbers can be a little up and down and at SANFL level he was playing more outside where he can play more inside. Contrast to Robertson playing U18s or colts who played exclusively inside mid. Both can do the opposite role and I think in doing so would consequently look different. Stephens has had some level of inconsistency in his possession numbers and his U18 championships was pretty disappointing.
Testing has shown he is about the same burst speed as Roberston (20m was 2.97) and also was 3rd in the 2km trial but obviously he uses it to effect at times. However, Stephens didn't appear top 10 in the yo-yo test and I think that correlates with compared to Robertson he is just not as "in it" all the time. Interestingly also, one can't help but notice Jeremy Sharp was up there with the same or better athletically that Stephens except for the yo-yo where he was top 10. Sharp is also a great highlights package burst player who has being playing against men rather than boys but the expectation is Sharp will go much later.
The reports are that we have put a lot of time and effort into both Stephens and Roberston with multiple conversations across the year. I feel if you had the choice between Robertson and Stephens (regardless of where they come from) you would go Robertson on the basis that he is much more in the game and is much more influential over the full space of it more consistently. Im not convinced Robertson's kicking is a writeoff - it looks good when he has space and I reckon he is going to start outside if he is at Freo where he will have comparatively more time to assess options.
Stephens is much better with composed kicking in space / goal kicking and I acknowlede we want more of those kinds of players, but we get Henry who IMO is just as good if not better in that regards, and/or there are going to be likely types at pick 20x anyway if we get a chance there. For mine, Stephens will likely start as a forward pocket /flank at AFL level, which again that is where I see Henry starting off.
Robertson is pretty fast (apparently set 2.98 for 20m in a trial earlier in the year) also great with repeat efforts and racks the ball up with ease averaging over 30 possessions a game and often getting close to 40. He also is tackling machine and this I reckon gives his fellow players a lift; Roberston is a player who is up for the fight all the time.
Stephens highlights look great and him motoring past people at SANFl level is awesome to behold. His numbers can be a little up and down and at SANFL level he was playing more outside where he can play more inside. Contrast to Robertson playing U18s or colts who played exclusively inside mid. Both can do the opposite role and I think in doing so would consequently look different. Stephens has had some level of inconsistency in his possession numbers and his U18 championships was pretty disappointing.
Testing has shown he is about the same burst speed as Roberston (20m was 2.97) and also was 3rd in the 2km trial but obviously he uses it to effect at times. However, Stephens didn't appear top 10 in the yo-yo test and I think that correlates with compared to Robertson he is just not as "in it" all the time. Interestingly also, one can't help but notice Jeremy Sharp was up there with the same or better athletically that Stephens except for the yo-yo where he was top 10. Sharp is also a great highlights package burst player who has being playing against men rather than boys but the expectation is Sharp will go much later.
The reports are that we have put a lot of time and effort into both Stephens and Roberston with multiple conversations across the year. I feel if you had the choice between Robertson and Stephens (regardless of where they come from) you would go Robertson on the basis that he is much more in the game and is much more influential over the full space of it more consistently. Im not convinced Robertson's kicking is a writeoff - it looks good when he has space and I reckon he is going to start outside if he is at Freo where he will have comparatively more time to assess options.
Stephens is much better with composed kicking in space / goal kicking and I acknowlede we want more of those kinds of players, but we get Henry who IMO is just as good if not better in that regards, and/or there are going to be likely types at pick 20x anyway if we get a chance there. For mine, Stephens will likely start as a forward pocket /flank at AFL level, which again that is where I see Henry starting off.
Stephens at senior level was playing the outside role, at lower levels he has played inside/outside and reserves had
a 40 possession game.
Rozee also had a mixed bag at the championship, we know how that translated at AFL.
Will be really interesting who is a bolter this year, if at all? There are plenty of Big names that would have to
slide for this to happen, which will cause a snowball effect.
We are well placed for a slider, and as you mentioned Sharp has all the attributes, with Taylor if our plans
go pear shaped.
Roberton could be the next Brayshaw, who came from nowhere, and when you compare them it makes
sense for him to be top 5.
Flanders is another plug and play type, and already has the body, game to play AFL.
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How badly do GC want another top 10?
I'd think about offering them pick 7 for pick 15 and their 2020 PP (11).
Gives us 10,15,22 + GC 2020 PP (11), and some enticing picks to trade back into the top 10. Eg using the GC PP and pick 22 we could try and trade for:
Sydney 5 and 44 (5,10,15,44)
Adelaide 4 and 47 (4,10,15,47)
GWS 6 and 40 (6,10,15,40)
just some thoughts
Next year is a very weak draft.
Suns pick 11 will be pushed out to pick 14/15.
If Suns want pick 7, thens it’s 15,20 and 2020 11.
No.
I’m happy with our hand it covers most of the combinations, except if Mel pick Henry at 3, but they’d be silly to do that. There are better players at 3.
Snuffaluphagus
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Think GC would jump at that but I reckon the only way we can get back into the top 10 is some shenanigans with GWS
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Yeah I see your point, but I’ve also got my eyes glued on Stephens like many others, and 4 would ensure we’d get him, 5 we possibly would, but not if Adelaide grabbed him, and having 5 could also garner good will with GWS protecting Green from a Sydney bid, and 6 could hopefully get us Stephens also.
I also think we might be better placed to pick up Sharp with this hand, using the pick in the 40s to get Menadue if they still want him.
But I’ve been wrong before... that one time
That was my first thought, but I thought we might be pushing it. But if we could get 15,20 & 2020 PP we’d have a lot of currency to work with other clubs to really place ourselves with potentially 3 top 10-12 picks, maybe even BEFORE a Henry bid.
I would only worry if Melb somehow trade up to say 6. With 3 and 6 they control that part of the draft and could bid at Henry at 3 as he is most likely to be matched at 8 and still get who they want at 6
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Such as?
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