List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread - Part V

[BrutThough]

If Carlton are doing this as a strategy to pickup players as dfa's in the draft its could be smart. if they get a couple of targets, they will literally be paying a pretty low price, and their competitors wont be getting a draft pick out of it

Jerk move to not take someone during the FA window just so the opposition club cant get a pick in the 40s.

I think its just more them scrambling to make someone of a trade period they otherwise stuffed up.

 

[David C]

I have to comment about Newnes , the club gave him more than a fair go - playing the guy at times just so he didn't break his games in secession.
(because no way should he of played going by form)
In the end he leaves and we don't get a brass razoo for him trade wise.

Really leaves with a ?
what happened , a few years ago he looked like a player , he was given prime positions on the half back flank and wing so he could put his mark on the game .

Now looking back at it I wish we played White , Rice or anyone who would of appreciated his position in the 22 more.

For a guy in his prime who has played so many games and leaves as a de-listed free agent shows how bad his fall has been.

When Weller was moved on he made a comment the his game suffered because of the role he played , it will be interesting what Newnes says after he has moved.

By the way Weller was given every chance with us as well - but now he has been de-listed from his 3rd club he must know now how good he had it with us.

Weller retired actually, saved us the trouble of delisting him. Good bloke.

 

[StCicatriz]

 

[StCicatriz]

Why shouldn't Seb get critiqued when he is doesn't do basic things that every player should do?

If I saw other players do what I've seen Seb do then of course I'd raise it. Newnes did it on occasion, Dunstan in the past too. Carlisle's attitude has been raised by others too.

I don't see why Seb shouldn't have questions asked about his leadership... especially since he seems to be the incumbent choice as our next Skipper.

way i see it is Seb is our best player by a pretty decent margin. if Seb has all these issues what's that say about the rest of the list?

 

[StCicatriz]

I think he's a good player, but unfortunately he's also our best player - that's the problem. A good team has a much better best player than Seb.

agree with this. i think Seb has a place in our side even with a much better list.

the bigger question is why after 9 whole years are we in this position. that's where the real blame lies.

Seb's perceived deficiencies are not the issue here. Poor recruitment, list management and development since 2011 is the core of the issue.

if we are happy to give both barrels to Seb then i'd love to hear peoples opinion on:
- Alan Richardson
- Scott Watters
- Jamie Cox
- Chris Pelchen
- Trout
- Ameet Bains

let them cop the same level of criticism for delivering what the list is now.

i bet you some people come to the defence of some of the above though, despite the obvious fact, that the results on what they all delivered was poor.

i think Seb is performing at the level for where he was drafted. he's reached the point we probably all had hoped for, if not surpassed it given how he's stepped up.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Obviously wasting everyone's time going on about this since you won't change your opinion on it despite the facts and all available evidence showing your opinion is incorrect.

Why would I change my opinion just because you don't agree with it? As someone posted above, your 'facts' and evidence are easily disputable.

My opinion is based watching Seb's shit attitude and the way that I watched him play from my seat in A30.

I haven't refuted how good his season was in 2017 when he won his 1st B&F. I absolute disagree that he was our best player this season. I hope like hell that he gets back to his best form next year & loses the petulance that stands out like dogs balls.

Maybe you should consider that it's not only me who is making this point and that you should open your eyes to how utterly bizarre his B&F win was?

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

way i see it is Seb is our best player by a pretty decent margin. if Seb has all these issues what's that say about the rest of the list?

I don't think he is at all.

My issue with Seb is his petulant attitude. His poor disposal is frustrating but no more than Dunstan's, Gresh's or any number of others.

I don't get where you're reading what I've posted and come up with 'all these issues'.

 

[Mowman]

imo we have bigger issues then Seb but I must admit i was shocked with the votes he got for the B&F

 

[Impatient Saint]

Well we will have no shortage of supposed full backs this year - Brown, Howard, Joyce, Clavarino, Marsh, Austin have I missed anyone?

Its not Gaggs fault but how many should we have on a list at any one time?

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

agree with this. i think Seb has a place in our side even with a much better list.

the bigger question is why after 9 whole years are we in this position. that's where the real blame lies.

Seb's perceived deficiencies are not the issue here. Poor recruitment, list management and development since 2011 is the core of the issue.

if we are happy to give both barrels to Seb then i'd love to hear peoples opinion on:
- Alan Richardson
- Scott Watters
- Jamie Cox
- Chris Pelchen
- Trout
- Ameet Bains

let them cop the same level of criticism for delivering what the list is now.

i bet you some people come to the defence of some of the above though, despite the obvious fact, that the results on what they all delivered was poor.

i think Seb is performing at the level for where he was drafted. he's reached the point we probably all had hoped for, if not surpassed it given how he's stepped up.

Do they all refuse to chase their opponent too?

 

[majortinkle]

Well we will have no shortage of supposed full backs this year - Brown, Howard, Joyce, Clavarino, Marsh, Austin have I missed anyone?

Its not Gaggs fault but how many should we have on a list at any one time?

I think only 3 of those are genuine full backs - we might have thought Clavarino and Austin might be, but Brown's signing tells us we no longer think that

 

[StCicatriz]

Do they all refuse to chase their opponent too?

"refuse" how do you determine that?

i doubt seb refuses to chase his opponent. i remember watching him in his 1st year, clenching his jaw, in obvious pain, trying to run out the game. he didnt give up chasing anyone. he couldn't keep up but the effort was still there. he found himself, rightfully in and out of the side. meanwhile there were players like Dunstan who were playing when they probably shouldn't have been.

i remember watching him in his 2nd or 3rd season where he found his legs. his tank had improved and he could start to match it. since then he's improved with every season.

he's come a long way. from a very raw shy U18 who had inside mid capabilities, with question marks on his tank and leadership. to someone who's now captaining the side in geary's absense, winning 2x B&F's and running out games as one of our best mid's. someone who's adapted to playing outside.

he's not a match winner. he has some deficiencies. but you're kidding if he wouldn't find a spot in every other side out there. i'd love to hear one side who wouldn't have him in their best 22?

the issue is we don't have the cattle around him. seb shouldn't be your star mid. he should be the complimentary player. he's your jordan lewis. 4x premiership player. only managed all australian once. but you wouldn't consider him a match winner or star of the side.

i think we have other blokes that we have invested more in terms of salary, draft picks, etc. with a higher potential that are more of a concern.

take someone like Blake Acres, we invested a lot more in him. we gave up a good pick in a stronger draft. someone who should have been a star of the midfield. same deal with Billings, Dunstan, Gresham, Long & McKenzie. add to that list: Longer, Lee, Hickey, Goddard, McCartin.

if Seb is an issue, what's that say about the amazing work Ameet and Trout did in their head recruiter + list manager double act.

 

[plugger66]

But why should the week in which the contract was offered matter in terms of compensation to the owning club?

Because that’s the rules. We have chosen to delist him so we didn’t want him anyway. Hard to complain in that instance

 

[StCicatriz]

Well we will have no shortage of supposed full backs this year - Brown, Howard, Joyce, Clavarino, Marsh, Austin have I missed anyone?

Its not Gaggs fault but how many should we have on a list at any one time?

i think we need Browns leadership. i think it also says something about some of those names on the list.

Trout's magnificent trade for Logan is questionable. Clavarino isn't living up to the hype. Marsh can't take the big guys. Joyce unlikely but depth. Howard a bit of an unknown until we see how he goes.

i think Brown will be very valuable for the younger backs.

 

[plugger66]

Thats the point. If Carlton did this two weeks ago, we would have got that pick.

We are just pointing how it annoying that didnt happen two weeks earlier and what a difference it makes.

They obviously didn’t know if they would have a spot back then.

 

[Impatient Saint]

I think only 3 of those are genuine full backs - we might have thought Clavarino and Austin might be, but Brown's signing tells us we no longer think that

Howard will take Browns position in the side. I can see Clavarino being groomed to fill the CHB position, but then if you include Battle and Roberton our tall defender stocks are ridiculous in number.

Hopefully we can improve their trade potential next year and off load a couple?

 

[plugger66]

Tbh I'd take Delucca in the draft ahead of carlton taking him in the rookie draft. I'd much prefer him than newnes.

Delisted at 2 clubs. There are more than just wa players. Big no from me. And I would say the club

 

[plugger66]

When I say handy, I don't mean high, but we have one pick in the top 80 and our highest pick right now is in the 50's.

The worst we would have gotten for him would have been 46.

Or nothing. Depends on his contract. There have been a few nothings over the years. My guess is he is earning bugger all. Anyway he is gone so nothing we can do about it

 

[StCicatriz]

Howard will take Browns position in the side. I can see Clavarino being groomed to fill the CHB position, but then if you include Battle and Roberton our tall defender stocks are ridiculous in number.

Hopefully we can improve their trade potential next year and off load a couple?

i think Clavarino is extremely unlikely to make it. i just don't see what others see in him. he looks miles off it.

i think we had the right idea with him but in typical Trout fashion managed to **** it all up in the execution. much in the same vein as Longer, Hickey, Lee, Saad, Milera etc.

trading up for a key back was the right idea. problem is he didn't reach high enough nor for the right player. the player we needed was Sam Taylor in the same draft. 7 spots higher.

 

[bergholt]

Two Jacks out, one Zak in. Is it the end of the Jack era?

 

[plugger66]

i think Clavarino is extremely unlikely to make it. i just don't see what others see in him. he looks miles off it.

i think we had the right idea with him but in typical Trout fashion managed to fu** it all up in the execution. much in the same vein as Longer, Hickey, Lee, Saad, Milera etc.

trading up for a key back was the right idea. problem is he didn't reach high enough nor for the right player. the player we needed was Sam Taylor in the same draft. 7 spots higher.

Pretty sure trout would have bugger all to do with recruiting them but if he did then he got membery bruce Steele etc. it’s funny what people want to see. Hindsight recuiting is funny. Wa player. Even funnier. Funniest of all is Taylor was gone before our pick. We should have taken kelly over billings

 

[majortinkle]

Because that’s the rules. We have chosen to delist him so we didn’t want him anyway. Hard to complain in that instance

The rules are nonsense

We have chosen to delist him out of respect for the player as Carlton were obviously not committing to take him in the draft

 

[plugger66]

The rules are nonsense

We have chosen to delist him out of respect for the player as Carlton were obviously not committing to take him in the draft

No we chose to delist him because we didn’t want him.

 

[majortinkle]

No we chose to delist him because we didn’t want him.

Whose Auntie told you that?

Or is that an opinion written as fact?

 

[plugger66]

Whose Auntie told you that?

Or is that an opinion written as fact?

The internet told me. It’s certainly fact because if we wanted him we would have kept him. People do say strange things