List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part I

[SteeleSaints]

Great post, someone is suffering from a mental health or condition, makes wrong decisions that are very bad, and nobody is saying DeGoey's priors are anything but very bad, but for people to continue to attack him even after you and others who suffer similar conditions post here and try to explain is as low as can be in my opinion.
Really great to hear your medication is giving you the best life mate, stay well.

And like you, a soft no from me for DeGoey.

Thats all well and good but none of the posters have suggested they 'indecently assault' women as a result of their condition. Behavioural Disorder or otherwise nothing excuses those actions, even in the criminal system. It may mitigate his penalty but it is not an excuse!

Why didnt he roll out that excuse after his past indiscretions?

Again my eldest son was diagnosed with ADHD at 8 years of age, he is now 35 and has had his battles but nothing with regards to disrespecting women.

 

[Joffaboy]

To me the issue remains that he chose to go to Bali for some Kuta nightlife in the mid season break. What he did there is a bit nothing to me (although youd probably argue with his profile and history he made a dumb choice to get on the piss and touch up a woman at a club, consenting or not. He had to be aware it would probably be filmed and would probably make the news). I dont think comparing him to you or I is really worthwhile. Nobody gives a s**t about our weekend footy games and were not getting half a mil a year to play footy.

If he was diagnosed with ADHD in December where the eff is his support? He works in a fishbowl in the largest club in Melbourne with a media voracious for headlines and stories. He needs good support and advice, and obviously not getting it.
To me that is a red flag in any negotiation, he was told some truths by his manager so sacked him and made his brother in law his manager. Don't know the abilities or not of the brother in law, but this would suggest it is probably not what DeGoey requires now and for ever.

here is the Heath Black bit from Andy Maher and Andrew Gaze yesterday

https://media.whooshkaa.com/show/1920/episode/1011485.mp3?source=webplayer-download

 

[phantom13]

I think the issue goes a bit deeper than that. The AFL media are like vultures waiting to pounce. The media in general are like that. It's not right, and at some point people need to stand up and not live in constant fear of having every move they make blown out of proportion.

But everyone just keeps apologising. Over and over again. I'd be like yeah the thing is i'm quite fond of tittys.... shoot me.

It's not the majority who are outraged. It's the noisy minority. F*ck 'em.

Perhaps but that "some point" isnt now and the person or people who stand up to them wont be the DeGoeys of the world.

In an ideal world we wouldnt have Sam Maclure and Gerard Whateley passing judgement on players personal lives. In the world we live in we do and their word affects some people and those people affect sponsors and clubs.

DeGoey has to live in the real world for the time being.

Caution to the wind IMO is simply taking him on.

Behavioural clauses is an interesting point... I'm not sure if AFL player contracts actually allow stipulations to be applied to the extent that many believe.

Collingwood have always been very good at making legal problems go away. Elite at it in fact. $$$$$

Fair enough, I dont agree. Caution to the wind is throwing the chequebook at him and bringing him in with no consideration of his risk THAT i would agree would be stupid.

Our caution is considering what his risk is, offering him a commensurate contract (with behavioral clauses which ultimately can be included if the player agrees). If hes not willing to accept the offer then we walk and he goes wherever he goes. I agree that hes not a player that warrants a write your own contract offer (both in performance or character) so we shouldnt do that.

FWIW the saints have a pretty good track record of making indiscretions disappear as well.

 

[phantom13]

If he was diagnosed with ADHD in December where the eff is his support? He works in a fishbowl in the largest club in Melbourne with a media voracious for headlines and stories. He needs good support and advice, and obviously not getting it.
To me that is a red flag in any negotiation, he was told some truths by his manager so sacked him and made his brother in law his manager. Don't know the abilities or not of the brother in law, but this would suggest it is probably not what DeGoey requires now and for ever.

here is the Heath Black bit from Andy Maher and Andrew Gaze yesterday

https://media.whooshkaa.com/show/1920/episode/1011485.mp3?source=webplayer-download

You cant give anyone support if they refuse to accept it. I have seen many friends and family over the years suffering from medical and mental health issues simply refuse to accept support and help even from professionals.

I cant imagine that anyone supported his decision to go to Bali but the club cant stop him and in reality neither can anyone else.

It might be that he hasnt got the right support around him and we might be able to do that but its a risk.

 

[Joffaboy]

Thats all well and good but none of the posters have suggested they 'indecently assault' women as a result of their condition. Behavioural Disorder or otherwise nothing excuses those actions, even in the criminal system. It may mitigate his penalty but it is not an excuse!

Why didnt he roll out that excuse after his past indiscretions?

Again my eldest son was diagnosed with ADHD at 8 years of age, he is now 35 and has had his battles but nothing with regards to disrespecting women.

So every mental condition is exactly the same? Name one person on here who has dismissed the seriousness of DeGoey's prior's, disgusting and appalling.

Saying someone has ADHD is like saying someone has cancer, the condition is different in every person. My daughter suffers from a condition I explained, extremely high functioning, a very successful lawyer. Should I be critical of other people suffering from autism because they are not as successful or because they are low functioning they should be critisised.

Your son was diagnosed 27 years ago and by the sounds has had good assistance and help to make him live his best life. That is wonderful an all power to you and your family, really a great job and I know it would have been difficult.

As for wheeling out the excuse, he was only diagnosed last year. My daughter was only diagnosed at age 25, Heath Black on the interview with Andy Maher said he wasn't diagnosed until 31.

Everyone get diagnosed at different times. All the more reason not to put himself in a position where the media will pounce on him even if what he was doing was innocent. As you correctly point out he has priors of assault against women, that can not and will never be condoned, however I am one for redemption, but the guy has to help himself and if he doesn't now after the revelation of his diagnosis, well absolutely no sympathy. Like your son, like my daughter, they were diagnosed and got support to manage their condition. If he doesn't do that, totally on him, and the CFC .

 

[pebblesofsand]

The trainee receptionist asked me to draft a contract offer to De Goey

First draft is

4 x $800k + 10 pages of additional Code of Conduct requirements

4 x $650k + 5 pages of additional Code of Conduct requirements

4 x $500K + Standard Code of Conduct

Over to you Jordan!!

 

[lewdogs]

One of the huge concerns over De Goey has to be his professionalism. Going to Bali over the bye just seems so dumb.

The flip side is you wonder how good he could be if things clicked for him.

 

[Joffaboy]

The trainee receptionist asked me to draft a contract offer to De Goey

First draft is

4 x $800k + 10 pages of additional Code of Conduct requirements

4 x $650k + 5 pages of additional Code of Conduct requirements

4 x $500K + Standard Code of Conduct

Over to you Jordan!!

Would add 4 x 350 and let your hair down, 3 Bali trips thrown in a year.

 

[bergholt]

The trainee receptionist asked me to draft a contract offer to De Goey

First draft is

4 x $800k + 10 pages of additional Code of Conduct requirements

4 x $650k + 5 pages of additional Code of Conduct requirements

4 x $500K + Standard Code of Conduct

Over to you Jordan!!

4 x $300k + you can do whatever the **** you like outside the club

 

[Joffaboy]

One of the huge concerns over De Goey has to be his professionalism. Going to Bali over the bye just seems so dumb.

The flip side is you wonder how good he could be if things clicked for him.

Apparently was training every day with either a) a local football team, or b) a Collingwood fitness trainer, depending on who you listen to

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

I vote get De Goey. He’s the kind of player we need.
People can say what they want but at the end of the day does anyone really care what they do off field as long as they as on field success?
Look at the best players of the last century. I doubt you’ll find any one of them without some issue or another. And if you can’t then it was just covered up well.
None of us know the situations or circumstances. Let’s talk footy.

 

[gringo2011]

James Harmes on radar he is being squeezed out at the Dees.

He’s quick but a bit like Dean Kent levels of attractive. Probably a more consistent Jones with out the really top games.

 

[lewdogs]

Apparently was training every day with either a) a local football team, or b) a Collingwood fitness trainer, depending on who you listen to

It's not the training aspect as much as the choice to go there. I just don't think the real pro guys would make that choice.

He just seems unwilling to sacrifice his fun.

 

[gringo2011]

I think we need to be aiming for a midfielder between the ages of 22-25 since thats a gap in our current list with only Gresh established midfielder within that bracket. We hope Clark will join him, but that hasn't happened yet.

So I'd rather pay for more a Taranto type or target a younger fringe midfielder to spread the age range of our midfield around that bring in another 27-29 year old midfielder given the age of all our other mids.

It is also one of the reasons I am against bringing in an Amon as well. Too many already on our list in that age bracket which could to lead to a lot of pain during Max King's prime years if that many from our list all going over the hill at the same time.

Hopefully we have some drafted talent building to step up after those guys go.

I’d look at FAs that can get us competitive now. We are in the window and might as well go hard.

 

[phantom13]

Can i ask does DeGoey actually have any prior convinctions for anything? I know he punched a cabby (and im not sure of the legal status of that) but to my knowledge all his other indiscretions were dismissed.

To be clear im not condoning them, dismissed or not he clearly acted innapropriately, but glass houses etc etc. Does he actually have any form of a criminal record?

 

[phantom13]

Hopefully we have some drafted talent building to step up after those guys go.

I’d look at FAs that can get us competitive now. We are in the window and might as well go hard.

This.

Owens and Windhager and the like look great but while we have Ross and Ryder and a few other older statesmen playing well we can load a few FAs up without sacrificing our future for a run in the next year or two.

 

[Klaatu]

I think we need to be aiming for a midfielder between the ages of 22-25 since thats a gap in our current list with only Gresh established midfielder within that bracket. We hope Clark will join him, but that hasn't happened yet.

So I'd rather pay for more a Taranto type or target a younger fringe midfielder to spread the age range of our midfield around that bring in another 27-29 year old midfielder given the age of all our other mids.

It is also one of the reasons I am against bringing in an Amon as well. Too many already on our list in that age bracket which could to lead to a lot of pain during Max King's prime years if that many from our list all going over the hill at the same time.

Taranto is a non proven midfielder so in the end he might become another HFF which we have plenty of, Amon will cost os nothing except $ and he is an upgrade on our current list if we contend for the flag in next 3 years Amon fits the bill.

Who would of recruited Ed Langdon from Freo when he left probably 1 or 2 clubs at best has 1 good year they win a flag.

 

[bergholt]

The interesting thing about De Goey is that this year he's more of a mid than previously:

21.5 disposals a game (highest in his career)
12.33 uncontested possessions per game (2nd highest in his career)
9.58 contested possessions per game (highest in his career)
4.58 clearances per game (highest in his career)
4.25 inside 50s per game (highest in his career)
2.08 rebound 50s per game (highest in his career)


His clearance numbers would put him 3rd at the Saints behind Steele and Crouch, ahead of Gresh and Seb.

His contested possession numbers would put him 4th at the Saints behind Steele, Crouch and Gresh, ahead of Seb, Sincs, Roma.

His inside 50 numbers would put him 3rd at the Saints behind Steele and Gresh, ahead of Seb, Sincs, Members (miles ahead of Crouch).


Looks like a pretty solid attacking mid from that perspective.

But on top of that, he's kicking a goal a game, which puts him 5th on our list, behind King, Higgins, Members, Gresh, equal with Paddy, ahead of Roma, Butts, Hill, Long, Crouch, Wood, D-Mac, Jones, etc.


Gresh is having a very good season as a dynamic mid who can win his own footy and get it forward, use pace around clearance, and also kick goals.

From a pure footy point of view, why would we refuse another guy who can do the same?

 

[BrutThough]

Hopefully we have some drafted talent building to step up after those guys go.

I’d look at FAs that can get us competitive now. We are in the window and might as well go hard.

I don't think over paying more average 27 year olds is the direction our list needs to go in.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

ADHD is not a mental ill health condition.

It can lead to a mental ill health condition as people with ADHD can be more likely to suffer from anxiety or depression.

I didn't hear Heath Black's interview nor have I heard anyone from JDG's camp that he is suffering from mental ill health. Just that he was diagnosed with ADHD & that makes him more susceptible to being unable to control his impulses.

And just to be clear, I think the Bali incident has been blown massively out of proportion... it was obviously consensual and just two young people having fun.

I'm just not sure the next time will be as innocent & if he's in RWB at the time then we all know how hard the media will go at the club.

Like i said, some people had better not go near Florida during spring break, they might explode due to outrage, but that's beside the point.

Its not that long since he was in the limelight in the USA , and seemingly escaped without a slap on the wrist.
That's put him firmly on the radar.
A smart guy would lie low for a bit. Surely you can get through a two week break without needing to go to Bali.
ADHD doesn't cause you to "impulsively " go to Bali.

He's a dumb bastard. Really dumb.
We don't need really dumb people who will probably never realise their full AFL potential.

 

[phantom13]

I don't think over paying more average 27 year olds is the direction our list needs to go in.

DeGoey isnt average, he isnt elite but he isnt average.

As for over paying, who else we gonna pay for 3 years? Hanners money frees up, were not going to have to load anyones contract up for a bit and as most of us have said, we wouldnt be paying DeGoey stupid money.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Taranto is a non proven midfielder so in the end he might become another HFF which we have plenty of, Amon will cost os nothing except $ and he is an upgrade on our current list if we contend for the flag in next 3 years Amon fits the bill.

Who would of recruited Ed Langdon from Freo when he left probably 1 or 2 clubs at best has 1 good year they win a flag.

Unproven?
He won the b&f in a grand final year at 21 years old playing midfield…

 

[BrutThough]

Taranto is a non proven midfielder so in the end he might become another HFF which we have plenty of, Amon will cost os nothing except $ and he is an upgrade on our current list if we contend for the flag in next 3 years Amon fits the bill.

Who would of recruited Ed Langdon from Freo when he left probably 1 or 2 clubs at best has 1 good year they win a flag.

How is Taranto unproven as a midfielder? He's played in the middle for the vast majority of his career.

Amon would likely cost more than 600k a year for a small upgrade on what we already have while also not addressing our biggest issue which is a mid who can win the ball. We shouldn't be overpaying someone just because they are available. Surely we have moved past that desperation stage.

 

[gringo2011]

It's not the training aspect as much as the choice to go there. I just don't think the real pro guys would make that choice.

He just seems unwilling to sacrifice his fun.

I have heard personal stories from a woman who had a run in with a couple of our current players. Guys that you’d consider clean skins and one recently delisted player. Probably coked, definitely drunk definitely much worse than JDG in Bali.

Footy players are often poorly behaved. It’s a lifestyle where they meet women who are throwing themselves at them, guys offer drugs and drinks or want to fight them. De Goey is a FA as someone said. He does dumb things he’s off the list and we have money for another FA next year. It’s like a gamble where he could look like an A hole for a couple of weeks or we could also just fade away into obscurity waiting.

 

[BrutThough]

DeGoey isnt average, he isnt elite but he isnt average.

As for over paying, who else we gonna pay for 3 years? Hanners money frees up, were not going to have to load anyones contract up for a bit and as most of us have said, we wouldnt be paying DeGoey stupid money.

I wasnt talking about De Goey. I don't want him anywhere near the club.