List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part I

[Hayes4PM]

People whinging about Amon:

A) it’s a freebie
B) not all slight of frame running types are as squibbish as Hill
C) it’s a freebie

So long as we’re not paying silly money more than happy for a 3 year contract. Out with one hard running, rebound player who has had years now to show he can deliver for someone new.

 

[Senor Ding Dong]

Getting good draft results generally only comes from having high picks via trading out mid-career stars or finishing low down the ladder.

Only one of those is in our control at the moment given we don’t really have any mid career stars to trade. Steele and Sincs are the only ones who would attract an early first rounder but can’t see the club offloading them.

Whats the alternative though? The 2nd round picks that we may get (at best) for the likes of Hill/Billings/Gresham/Ross etc are too hit and miss. A few weeks ago Daisy Pierce on SEN was saying the difference between Melbourne and St Kilda's rebuild was that Melbourne nailed their early picks and the Saints didn't. She cited the difference between Petracca/Brayshaw/Oliver/Salem and Billings/McCartin/Dunstan/Acres/Gresham.

Whilst this is correct, It ignores the fact that Melbourne had so many more picks in the top 10 then us
between 2012-2015:

• Melbourne 6 top 10 draft picks, 7 if you include the minidraft
• St Kilda 2 top 10 picks and 7 picks between 17-25

Melbourne also stuffed up a couple of early picks in Toumpas(4) ,Weideman(9), and arguably Hogan (although they cashed out before he dipped). But they had so many cracks at the the cream of the draft that they had more luck.

If we finish 2023 in 10th position again, the club will have to realistically consider trading the like of Sinclair/Marshall/Steele.....I feel dirty just typing that

 

[Sainterz12]

I’m all for giving away Hill for a peanuts if it means that money goes to De Goey. Pick 10 and Acres for De Goey we wouldn’t have said no to.

The key part to this is keeping NWM imo. He’s got those silky skills for the wing we got Hill for, plus cracks in and lays a tackle. Love watching him play and keeping my fingers crossed the whispers are false.

 

[BrutThough]

To your point BrutThough
Richmond played
Tarrant, Balta, Gibcus and Broad in their backline last week, smashing Essendon.
Miller also started down back before going forward when lynch injured.

So our equivalent would be Howard, Battle, Wilkie and then Coffield at 193cm as the spare, intercepting defender. An additional tall down back would make us very slow.

 

[Klaatu]

What difference does a bloke's age make?

If he's got the intelligence, IP and ability to influence an organisation in a positive way then it doesn't matter if he (or she) has one foot in the ground.

Typical of football keep going to the past, have a look at Nth went for Clarkson instead of a Kingsley or Yze next thing you know we'll wheel out David Parkin, like Essendon keep holding onto Sheedy time to move on.

 

[bird_man]

It we brought in another key defender, it would be at the expense of one of Howard, Wilkie and Battle. No team plays 4 key defenders.

Richmond 2017

Rance, Grimes, Broad, Astbury

Richmond 2020

Balta, Grimes, Broad, Astbury

We class Wilkie and Battle as key defender because we have to, when ideally they could playing the 3rd tall role

I only see the point if we are adding a genuine quality key defender though, not a fringe type

 

[stavro#4]

It's having a bet each way instead of drafting our talent again. We need to find the best proven recruiter available and should have done it 10 years ago. We are going to stay in a state of making finals but not going anywhere with that and Ratts. If we can't get a new coach I can't see us ever winning a premiership. He looks lost.

Giving up 20 for Lobb is exactly the same as what got us here. Losing Nas for anything less than we paid will be another nail in the coffin for list management IMO.

We were told that losing Bruce was good because we got Jones, now we delist him because he isn't worth anything. Should have tried him off HBF instead of Hill or use him to move Sincs on ball.

Nas is a major * up, hopefully who ever got him in is moved on before the draft.

Mate you are too far in the negative to continually engage in this.

NWM a major **** up? We picked the best talent. If he leaves, it’s not because we ****ed up.

We aren’t a bottom club. But if you want to completely bottom out. Might aswell trade Membrey Marshall Steele Crouch Wilkie etc who won’t be here when we come back up.

What happens next just needs to be well thought out. Planned. Etc.

 

[Yawkey way]

Hawthorn is expected to land Port Adelaide midfielder/wingman Karl Amon in free agency, reports News Corp.

That’s what we keep hearing, is it true ?

 

[flyingmagic]

You don’t need a full rebuild.

The worst I could imagine is 2-3 years of youth through the door and then have another shot.

But my gut tells me it’s the top end that hasn’t worked like Hill and Jones.

So if we can replace them with a De Goey and more kids. It’s better for us

Yes it would be the Sydney road. 6th in 2018, 15th in 2019, 16th in 2020 then back to 6th in 2021 and 3rd in 2022.

Short sharp dips can be succesful and we have a lot of evidence to show that the North Melbourne path is not the way to go. All our best players still have 5+ years to go and all the players we are thinking about trading out haven't been integral for us anyway. I don't see much downside in trading out Hill.

 

[St Kilda Death]

Whats the alternative though? The 2nd round picks that we may get (at best) for the likes of Hill/Billings/Gresham/Ross etc are too hit and miss. A few weeks ago Daisy Pierce on SEN was saying the difference between Melbourne and St Kilda's rebuild was that Melbourne nailed their early picks and the Saints didn't. She cited the difference between Petracca/Brayshaw/Oliver/Salem and Billings/McCartin/Dunstan/Acres/Gresham.

Whilst this is correct, It ignores the fact that Melbourne had so many more picks in the top 10 then us
between 2012-2015:

• Melbourne 6 top 10 draft picks, 7 if you include the minidraft
• St Kilda 2 top 10 picks and 7 picks between 17-25

Melbourne also stuffed up a couple of early picks in Toumpas(4) ,Weideman(9), and arguably Hogan (although they cashed out before he dipped). But they had so many cracks at the the cream of the draft that they had more luck.

If we finish 2023 in 10th position again, the club will have to realistically consider trading the like of Sinclair/Marshall/Steele.....I feel dirty just typing that

Go back further for Melbourne.
07
4. Cake Morton
11. Jack grimes

08
1. Watts
17. Blease
19. Strauss

09
1.Scully
2.Trengove
11. Gysberts
18. Tapscott

10
12. Lucas cook

11
12. Traded for Mitch Clark.

Goes to show fortunes can change.



I’ll pretend I didn’t see your last sentence and you should wash yourself.

 

[St Kilda Death]

So our equivalent would be Howard, Battle, Wilkie and then Coffield at 193cm as the spare, intercepting defender. An additional tall down back would make us very slow.

Think your underestimating how well Wilkie could play someone shorter.

Your not slow if you’re taking intercept marks, killing the ball, speed won’t come into it.
Richmond/ Melbourne 101

 

[gringo2011]

Mate you are too far in the negative to continually engage in this.

NWM a major * up? We picked the best talent. If he leaves, it’s not because we *ed up.

We aren’t a bottom club. But if you want to completely bottom out. Might aswell trade Membrey Marshall Steele Crouch Wilkie etc who won’t be here when we come back up.

What happens next just needs to be well thought out. Planned. Etc.

I'm negative for a reason every year we are back there hoping that they don't sell off our good players and don't get the recruitment wrong.

I agree, we need to plan shit. I'm pissed off because we've been rebuilding since 2011 and still have nothing to show for it and have to trust the same people to start reversing the way they've done things to get us where we are now.

I'm happy to move on their mistakes but trying to sell us their patch jobs as a positive to the fans just makes me hate them a little bit more.

Sandringham had one of the best pools of young talent in years and we literally ignored them for a guy with high go home factor. We don't even seem to use outside run in the way we set up. It was a mystifying then and worse seeing as we lose a year of development and potentially down grade his pick even. It's a stuff up.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

We need a big campaigner to help Max and Ro
A big campaigner to help Doogs
A couple of little campaigners to help Steelo
A hard campaigner and a few smart campaigners to help Ratts

 

[gringo2011]

Go back further for Melbourne.
07
4. Cake Morton
11. Jack grimes

08
1. Watts
17. Blease
19. Strauss

09
1.Scully
2.Trengove
11. Gysberts
18. Tapscott

10
12. Lucas cook

11
12. Traded for Mitch Clark.

Goes to show fortunes can change.



I’ll pretend I didn’t see your last sentence and you should wash yourself.

Melbourne were undoubtably one of the worst recruiting sides in history. They have turned it around though. They've really been brave moving up to get hold of guys like Oliver and Pickett. Arsed Petracca but still took him, guys like Salem looked like a terrible trade but ended up a positive. They don't get too many wrong nowadays.

 

[BigMonty]

On Hill he has been disappointing.....we wanted a Steele like performance level, not same style but similar output...which we did not get.
So not a hard decision to make leave with our blessing and Salary savings an early pick is a bonus.

What we saw from Long last night is what I expected from Hill. If Long has found a way to flick the switch like Sincs did mid last year....then how good is that. He showed the level that he is capable it is now just about consistency.

StKilda has a bit of a messiah complex...Blight Hill et al. De Goey may be another.....we should not chase anyone pay them a fair amount and keep going back to the draft.

Hill was the messiah and was a disappointment let's not make the sa.e mistake twice

On SM-G977B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[bird_man]

So our equivalent would be Howard, Battle, Wilkie and then Coffield at 193cm as the spare, intercepting defender. An additional tall down back would make us very slow.

Coff is 191cm and different type to all those Richmond players mentioned.

He slightly taller but closer to a Vlaustin than a Grimes etc

He's also very quick so does not slow us down.

If it does however mean that one of our third talls miss out then so be it. But a genuine tall key defender would be a great inclusion.

We went for Gibcus last year so wouldn't be surprised to see it high on the list again this year

 

[St Kilda Death]

Melbourne were undoubtably one of the worst recruiting sides in history. They have turned it around though. They've really been brave moving up to get hold of guys like Oliver and Pickett. Arsed Petracca but still took him, guys like Salem looked like a terrible trade but ended up a positive. They don't get too many wrong nowadays.

I think a lot of their young players got ruined by being thrown into the fire.
Trengrove, Watts, grimes.

They made a huge mistake going all out on youth and shipping off the older guys.

That’s why the first thing Roos did was bring in older guys.
That’s why clarko has already flagged bringing older guys in.
That’s why we should never go down that route of offloading seniors for all out youth.

Standards drop without seasoned campaigners
Remember when Cale Morton went to west coast and came dead last in the time trials?

Kids think they work hard but they need to be shown how hard they can actually work.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

So far he talks the talk but he's about to promote a bunch of guys that haven't shown anything but the ability to make terrible decisions. He has a long way to go to prove he's anything but another well meaning klutz.

Who are the bunch of guys being promoted who have made nothing but terrible decisions?

 

[St Kilda Death]

I’ll be pissed if Long goes to the..

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Typical of football keep going to the past, have a look at Nth went for Clarkson instead of a Kingsley or Yze next thing you know we'll wheel out David Parkin, like Essendon keep holding onto Sheedy time to move on.

Huh? I'm talking about an experienced head of footy or a senior consultant role, not a coach.

And there's plenty of 1st time coaches who were seen as the future who ended up in the sacked coaches club. No guarantee that Kingsley & Yze won't join Teague & co.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Hawthorn is expected to land Port Adelaide midfielder/wingman Karl Amon in free agency, reports News Corp.

News Corp eh?

Welcome to Moorabbin Karl.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

On Hill he has been disappointing.....we wanted a Steele like performance level, not same style but similar output...which we did not get.
So not a hard decision to make leave with our blessing and Salary savings an early pick is a bonus.

What we saw from Long last night is what I expected from Hill. If Long has found a way to flick the switch like Sincs did mid last year....then how good is that. He showed the level that he is capable it is now just about consistency.

StKilda has a bit of a messiah complex...Blight Hill et al. De Goey may be another.....we should not chase anyone pay them a fair amount and keep going back to the draft.

Hill was the messiah and was a disappointment let's not make the sa.e mistake twice

On SM-G977B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Hill was never a messiah. He was the outside run we've craved every preseason since 2009.

Hill has never done the stuff that Longy did on Sunday (neither has Longy to be honest).

He ran hard, carried the ball & hit targets. Things that he has done inconsistently with us.

 

[Joffaboy]

kkYou don't have to take players from other clubs. The system works that you drag yourself up by the bootstraps until you are close and then players are attracted to you and you get players sign on for the right reasons. We tried to do everything backwards because the footy department and boardroom are operating separately and bluffing each other.

The reason we wanted to import a high profile player was to cover up the lack of ability to draft our own high end talent. We really needed some honesty from all areas of the club.

Is there one club that has not brought in players from other clubs?

We got five senior players for a first and a second basically. If we have have used the first and second we would not have made finals in 2020 and the forum would be bemoaning the fact that no high end players want to come to us and we will never ever get close to finals, the kids confidence is smashed because they lose every game by 8 goals and we would be looking to a Malcome Blight situation where are after a messiah coach.

Hmmm sounds eerily similiar to North. Sorry for as disappointing we have been I don't want us to do a North who have pick 1 and pick 700 or something this draft, looking to make a splash by taking Brad Hill on 900k after him coming off 5 ordinary years at Freo and the Saints.

 

[gringo2011]

Who are the bunch of guys being promoted who have made nothing but terrible decisions?

Rath and Lethlean.

 

[stavro#4]

I'm negative for a reason every year we are back there hoping that they don't sell off our good players and don't get the recruitment wrong.

I agree, we need to plan s**t. I'm pissed off because we've been rebuilding since 2011 and still have nothing to show for it and have to trust the same people to start reversing the way they've done things to get us where we are now.

I'm happy to move on their mistakes but trying to sell us their patch jobs as a positive to the fans just makes me hate them a little bit more.

Sandringham had one of the best pools of young talent in years and we literally ignored them for a guy with high go home factor. We don't even seem to use outside run in the way we set up. It was a mystifying then and worse seeing as we lose a year of development and potentially down grade his pick even. It's a stuff up.

Finn Callaghan: pick three, GWS

Josh Sinn: pick 12, Port Adelaide

Campbell Chesser: pick 14, West Coast

No chance at grabbing Callaghan.

Sinn and Chesser played one game between them and missed plenty of time through injuries.

NWM has created plenty of highlights with his foot skills in his games this year.

So your argument that we missed this sure fire talent at the Dragons by taking NWM is very hard to back up.

As of RIGHT NOW, the recruiting team look vindicated in their decision. He looks good.

If he goes home, and right now it’s still an if. He is contracted.

Then there is every chance we get a first round pick or Sinn coming back the other way. Who you are claiming we effectively should have taken.

So what are you crying about gringo? How are we worse off if the above transpires?