Holy shitballs, is May only 193 cm?
If Logue can fill the FB role at 193 cm I take it all back.
Maybe a chop.out from the mids would help a bit as well.
List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II
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If Logue can fill the FB role at 193 cm I take it all back.
Maybe a chop.out from the mids would help a bit as well.
- Oct 2, 2010
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Do we focus too much on whether Howard should play FB or CHB?
Match up wise, even if we brought in Logue, Howard would still be matched up on the same player as he was this year playing alongside Wilkie and Battle.
Match up wise, even if we brought in Logue, Howard would still be matched up on the same player as he was this year playing alongside Wilkie and Battle.
- May 6, 2009
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preaching to the choir- I want us to have battle train as a dour, lockdown FB all summer and play him as one all through 2023.
I'm not saying height is everything- but it is something.
Especially for us who have doogs at 200cm- but plays shorter than he is because unlike gun key position defenders like Steven May- he's crap at 1-on-1 contested stuff.
Doogs plays as very tall half back flanker really.
Which wouldn't be an issue necessarily- but the rest of our 'tall' defenders are undersized too.
That's when lack of height becomes an issue- when all of your 'talls' are undersized (or play as though they are undersized like doogs does).
FYI Wilkie is exactly the opposite to doogs- he's a steven may gorilla type key defender.. stuck in a half back flankers body.
We should be spending brad hill's money on inventing a machine that transplants wilkies brain and ticker into dougals body.
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- Apr 26, 2015
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Maybe we recruit Frankenstein's monster?
- May 6, 2009
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Nah- gotta get dougal playing further up the ground away from the last line of defence.
I'd have him take whoever the opposition have playing at CHF- no matter what the heights of the opposition forwards were.
Teams like bris and WC do this with barrass and adams playing last line of defence whoever the opposition is; while bigger guys like mcgovern and andrews play higher up the ground defending and providing some attack too.
Basically- I'd be perfectly fine with us playing the blues for instance- with howard at CHB on curnow all day and logue/battle/whoever we had earmarked as our lockdown FB on McKay all day.
- Oct 2, 2010
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Why do we need to get him up the ground? Say we are playing Carlton - he is better suited playing on McKay than he is on Curnow no matter which one is deep. Similar with Geelong, where you would want him on Hawkins and not Cameron. If he isn't good enough to continue to play as a full back on the opposition's biggest forward, he shouldn't be in the side.
We were 1 of 2 sides to not concede a bag of 5 or more this year. I'm not sure Howard playing the role he does each week is as big of an issue as it gets made out to be. Sure, he isn't in the top tier of key backs in the comp but he is not near the bottom tier either.
Is the cost of "upgrading" him going to make the big of a difference to our overall defensive set up? I'd say there is more pressing areas we need to improve to see a greater overall improvement to our performance.
Nah just got to invent some massive padded footy boots that increase his height by 10cm. We could then patent it and sell it to Nike to pay of our debt. 2 birds, 1 stone
Mangus
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Our backline has some real strengths, Wilkie and Sincs are elite, Battle at his best early in the year was becoming that intercepting second up defender and that is his best role.
The worry is Howard he was more and more frustrating the longer the season went whether it is him never trying to mark the ball or giving away stupid free kicks or turning the ball over on the way out he progressively got worse over the season. He is still our best bet for Full Back but he needs a reset over preseason.
I am not as positive on Coffield as most seem to be on here he was a fringe player in 2021 and coming off an ACL won’t have done anything for his agility or development I suspect it will take a while for him to get back on track and he still has a lot to prove.
On the flip side Patton was getting back to his best towards the end of the year he can be a lot better next year.
Long should settle at HB that is where he plays his best footy like DMac I can see him working it all out a bit later than most and becoming an important player. Like DMac he has some elite athletic and competitive advantages but it has taken him a long time to work out how use those advantages effectively the back end of his career will be better than the front.
Webster Clark and Highmore are all decent options as well
That backline has the ability to be both pretty stingy and have plenty of rebound. Only worry is the key back is suspect and we have no backup or alternative, unfortunately I can’t see a quick fix to that other than backing Dougs to get better, fast tracking Oscar Adams and hoping we find some gold at the draft or a state league revelation.
Busslinger and Lewis Hayes are the two best Key backs in the draft. It might be that Buslinger is the best available player at Pick 10 if all the genuinely good mids are gone by then but just as likely he is gone before our pick and Hayes will go before our second. Time for Toce to find a 22 year old 198cm beast playing reserves in the SANFL.
The worry is Howard he was more and more frustrating the longer the season went whether it is him never trying to mark the ball or giving away stupid free kicks or turning the ball over on the way out he progressively got worse over the season. He is still our best bet for Full Back but he needs a reset over preseason.
I am not as positive on Coffield as most seem to be on here he was a fringe player in 2021 and coming off an ACL won’t have done anything for his agility or development I suspect it will take a while for him to get back on track and he still has a lot to prove.
On the flip side Patton was getting back to his best towards the end of the year he can be a lot better next year.
Long should settle at HB that is where he plays his best footy like DMac I can see him working it all out a bit later than most and becoming an important player. Like DMac he has some elite athletic and competitive advantages but it has taken him a long time to work out how use those advantages effectively the back end of his career will be better than the front.
Webster Clark and Highmore are all decent options as well
That backline has the ability to be both pretty stingy and have plenty of rebound. Only worry is the key back is suspect and we have no backup or alternative, unfortunately I can’t see a quick fix to that other than backing Dougs to get better, fast tracking Oscar Adams and hoping we find some gold at the draft or a state league revelation.
Busslinger and Lewis Hayes are the two best Key backs in the draft. It might be that Buslinger is the best available player at Pick 10 if all the genuinely good mids are gone by then but just as likely he is gone before our pick and Hayes will go before our second. Time for Toce to find a 22 year old 198cm beast playing reserves in the SANFL.
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I'm not talking about upgrading him, I'm talking about looking at what he does well and does poorly... and seeing if there is opportunity for him (and the team) to be better than we have been.
Because doing nothing isn't an option at this point- we are going nowhere fast with the status quo.
As such I'm saying, why not look at what he does well (attack)- and put him somewhere which suits it.
Play him at CHB and play battle on the mckay, lynch etc tall full forwards.
why is 5 a magic number? That's an entirely arbitrary measure of success or failure.
Mitch lewis gave our defence a bath earlier in the year but only kicked 3.5.
That's a win for our defence just because he didn't kick 5?
The amount of objectively preventable goals (or shots at goal) that doogs concedes is the worry.
He too often gets beaten by the opposition taking a mark that is either completely uncontested or only lightly contested... whereas for instance if it were wilkie- the mark would have been contested at least or not a mark at all.
I recall someone posted win % for 1-on-1 contests not too long ago- it was no surprise to see doogs off the charts (in a bad way)- because he avoids 1-on-1's (not a good trait for any FB), and when he does inevitably get into some- he loses them regularly.
We are trying to smash a square peg into a round hole making him a designated full back just because he's tall... while ignoring:
A. his natural attacking instincts (not a great attribute at FB unless you are doing serious damage offensively rebounding- which doogs doesn't)
B. his weakness in 1-on-1 contests (not a great attribute on the last line of defence)
Extrapolate this mentality across 21 other positions in our starting 22 and no wonder we are 10th every year with most of our list in its prime.
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He also wasn't much of a lead up target in the second half of the season.
To me, the interesting thing is that when he was firing and confident early in the year, King was firing and confident too. Seems the whole forward line became dysfunctional when he had the concussions and them came back out of form.
Bloke playing VFL for the Dees, Gunstan or or Hunstan or something, 34 possessions as an inside mid
Worth looking at? Reckon Ratts would love him.
Worth looking at? Reckon Ratts would love him.
Jesuswasacarpenter
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And when he goes for a run and pumps the ball down the wing towards 50.... delicious
gringo2011
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His body is so fragile though. If he'd not had the injury history he'd be a consideration but you want him just about free. Looks like they are selling him after the one year he didn't break down. I think he might have been a Saints fan growing up from memory. possibly why we are looking.
gringo2011
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Ratts seems to ruin players then move them back to what they are good at and they magically improve. Ross, Battle....even Marshall. Hopefully Billings and Coffield are the next to improve. Actually maybe we should persist with Hill.
Mowman
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Move him back to the wing LOL
gringo2011
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Fox Footy reporting that Carlton are leading the race for Acres with a 3 year $350k offer.
That’s insane. He was AA contention mid year before he did his hammy.
$650k for Amon
$900k for Hill
$350 for GOAT
That’s insane. He was AA contention mid year before he did his hammy.
$650k for Amon
$900k for Hill
$350 for GOAT
Saintos The ITK
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BRing him home
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Defenders play all over, so long as you have multiple guys that can get across and take an intercept mark, all you need is a guy to engage in a wrestle and let them come.
Geelong do it so well because whoever plays on the first or second small forward pays them no respect when the ball is coming in and they just fly over the top
Billy Frampton isn't a lock down KPD, more of a 3rd tall who happens to be 200cm. Hence why he can't get a look in at the crows with Doedee playing that role so much better
I respectfully disagree. As someone here said recently it's not the 70's any more, and what's defined at "tall" is not what it was.
Looking at who we have.
Pato at 187cm - 6ft1" is a small, as are all his size or below
Coff and Wilkie at 191cm - 6ft2.5" are mediums. Wilkie "can" play tall, but also small. He's a champion MEDIUM and our POD.
Batts and 193cm - 6ft3" the perfect size for a 3rd tall
Doogs at 199cm is obviously classed a a genuine tall.
So that leaves 2 places open in a 7 man group for another small (or player that plays small) and another genuine tall. Which would make it a bog standard balanced defense. Or you rotate a Sinclair, Jones, Clark as the 7th.
Richmond did it with a smaller group, and others have probably done it with a taller group, but that means SFA because the only thing that matters is the abilities of the players that you actually have.
Unfortunately he's just not May though
He rarely takes the big forwards, often even playing on smalls
Not the type we need
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