List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II

[bird_man]

Contracts


Well unless we've signed Battle up for $300K year I can't see how he and a "name" KPD defender can fit in the same side.

Agree its different if we chase a young project player but it struck me as a bit weird to delist Joyce at this stage given our next "tall" defender is then Oscar Adams and he's having serious back issues.

I doubt we will be spending big on a key defender unless it's in the draft

Replacing Joyce won't be a problem

 

[bird_man]

Id say Logue has way more agility than Battle , Yes Battle has a tank but is not agile in any way , once he gets a head of steam up it takes him two blocks to slow down and turn around.
Logue is just that little bit stronger that he can take the bigger types , id have him any day of the week

I'd prefer Battle to be honest

 

[Joffaboy]

He must average similar amounts of games to Hanners. I guess we need to keep the medicos on their toes.

Bell will want pick 09 for Logue and after the Hill experience we will probably give it to him.

 

[gringo2011]

If we go for him we are dancing around the problem. Battle, Wilkie, Paton, Coffield, Highnore, even Sharman. He will be in that group, all about 193 cm.
We have one 200cm back but we are going after someone like Logue.

Yup makes sense.

Height in defence is overrated. I can only think of Harris Andrews in the super tall elite KPBs.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Our backline is currently our strongest line. Improve the midfield and they won’t be under constant pressure.

How many games was the ball camped in the back half without being heavily scored against?

Yes we don’t have 2 x 200 cm players but I don’t think that’s needed in the game now.

We have plenty of guys that can more than do anything he job.

 

[Joffaboy]

I'd prefer Battle to be honest

it's not that I have anything against Logue, however, to me we have an abundance of his type.

How can he be FB @ 193 cm? Look he may be the answer but it seems the wrong reign to pull for me.

Not the melt I alluded to a few days back, but I will try to whip up a frenzy, gringo, you with me?

 

[Joffaboy]

Height in defence is overrated. I can only think of Harris Andrews in the super tall elite KPBs.

Well to be frank, I haven't seen too much of Logue. Does he play tall and could he hold down a FB role sending Doogs to CHB?

I don't think Battle would be under pressure, more Paton

 

[SteeleSaints]

We do need another key defender, but I cant believe posters are suggesting we trade Josh Battle

26

Josh Battle

Age

26

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

. He is 23 yo had the least number of goals kicked on him of any key defender in 2022.

He plays with some attitude and you can see he hates losing, which a lot of his team mates need. Plus he is only going to get better as he becomes more confident in the position.

People need to stop worrying about players height and be more concerned on their competitiveness. In that sense Battle is a very strong player, with a big upside.

 

[borderbarry]

Too much attention is given to height I believe. Our brownlow medalist full back, and our premiership centre half forward and captain were both ell under 6 ft tall. Ability is more important than height any day.

 

[2ballz]

Logue is a very handy player, think he grew up supporting the saints as well

 

[The_Steadier]

Happy to see what anyone else thinks how we could trade up.

Love the ambition- but trading up to pick 1 in reality would definately involve us coughing up someone like jack steele or something equally essential.

Teams overvalue pick 1- it comes with an additional price premium over all other picks.
(Due to as much as anything, mitigation of the future embarrassment of potentially giving up a champion for magic beans)

It's dumb and illogical because pick 1's aren't in reality any more likely to be champions than later picks- but just because it's illogical, doesn't mean it doesn't happen-
If you want pick 1, you need to pay bigger overs to get it vs any other pick.

Logue can play forward as well but will play FB & Doug’s chb.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Love the idea, but Logue as the solution doesn't get me excited.

If we nailed trading in a gun FB, I think it would be like getting a 2 for 1 deal- because I think Dougs would go to a whole new level at CHB- a virtual new recruit.

yeah yeah yeah, too many talls down back, can't play them all etc etc etc.

Yes correct- but it's time to strap on the big boy pants and make some hard calls.

The goal is to get our best 22 into top 4 shape in the next 2 years.
In order to do that we are gonna have to break a few eggs to make that omelette.

We aren't ever gonna get a top 4 starting 22 with dougs at FB. (He's too attacking, not good enough at man on man contested stuff- an essential part of being a FB.)

So... we either ship him off, or play him at CHB where he can (in theory) actually use his natural abilities.

As such, I say we go with:

2023-
have battle train as a lockdown FB all pre-season,
doogs at CHB with a licence to attack and create.
Wilkie takes the 3rd tall spot,
Coff(if form and fitness warrant selection) takes sinclairs attacking HB spot,
and 2 of paton/long/webster etc take the remaining small back spots.

If this works out well ie:
1. battle can do what doogs can't at FB (win some man-on-man contests and not give his opponent 20meters of space all day), and
2. doogs can use his attacking nature to good effect rebounding and creating at CHB...

happy days- we don't need to bring in another key defender.
2024+ top 4 here we come!

If it doesn't work- well then it's as simple as ditching doogs and getting ourselves a genuine fullback, with battle returning to CHB.

 

[The_Steadier]

Too much attention is given to height I believe. Our brownlow medalist full back, and our premiership centre half forward and captain were both ell under 6 ft tall. Ability is more important than height any day.

How many 200+cm full fwds were roaming around back then?

They are everywhere now- and they can jump!

Height isn't everything... but it's also not nothing.

 

[pebblesofsand]

As a regular here, can you explain to me why getting another KPD requires the omission of 1 of our 2 best defenders?
Coz Battle and Wilkie have basically held up out back half. I don't get it.

As I said IF we get another KPD AND Coff comes back from his ACL then something has to give height wise.

You can't play Howard, Wilkie, Coffield, Battle and another KPD in the same backline. Unless we want less run off the back half and shift Sinclair.

Paton Howard Wilkie

Coff ???? Sinclair

 

[CaptainRisky]

Too much attention is given to height I believe. Our brownlow medalist full back, and our premiership centre half forward and captain were both ell under 6 ft tall. Ability is more important than height any day.

And milk used to be delivered by horse and cart

 

[PoppedCorn]

If we put doogs at chb and I don't mind battle at FB either not a bad idea, but we could put






Membrey at FB



Hayes and roma ruck/ chf
Goat and king fwd

Patton skunk sincs
Wilks doogs battle

Fwd
Wood Hayes someone
Sharman King someone

 

[CaptainRisky]

Logue is a very handy player, think he grew up supporting the saints as well

And is best mates with Billings






Just Kidding

 

[Premium]

As I said IF we get another KPD AND Coff comes back from his ACL then something has to give height wise.

You can't play Howard, Wilkie, Coffield, Battle and another KPD in the same backline. Unless we want less run off the back half and shift Sinclair.

Paton Howard Wilkie

Coff ???? Sinclair

I fully expect Coffield to be moved on to a wing or even given midfield time , the way he was looking before his injury he could well of been being prepared for than position.

We currently have more than enough players to fill the halfback positions and I really feel Coffield is a bit more than a intercept halfback flanker and in saying this Clark has to get his act together because we never got him as a defender so he will have to get his s//t together or he could be fighting for a position in our best 22.
With Long playing his best every game against the Swans , he could become the next player to grow a leg like Sinclair and give ourselves 2 elite halfbacks with Wilkie , Paton , Howard and Battle giving us a pretty solid defensive department.

We are in a pretty good position next year with Coffield and Jack Hayes slotting into the side.
And I would not put it out of the question we pick up a disgruntled player from the Bombers , we know they had a talk to McGrath and guys like Merrett and Parish have been far from happy at Bomber land and if they appoint someone like Ross Lyon you might see a few more wanting to get out.

Hopefully we get DeGoey and I don't really care if Hill stays or not because we have enough cash on hand to score a couple good players without having to cull players for salary cap.

 

[SteeleSaints]

As I said IF we get another KPD AND Coff comes back from his ACL then something has to give height wise.

You can't play Howard, Wilkie, Coffield, Battle and another KPD in the same backline. Unless we want less run off the back half and shift Sinclair.

Paton Howard Wilkie

Coff ???? Sinclair

Every club has injuries & list depth is what is needed, if we want to become a sucessful club. If they are all fit it creates competitiveness for spots, then at seasons end also creates trade opportunities.

 

[CaptainRisky]

He must average similar amounts of games to Hanners. I guess we need to keep the medicos on their toes.

Id rather him than Doug's , oh that's right , Doug's is a leader

 

[MrFoster]

Our backline is currently our strongest line. Improve the midfield and they won’t be under constant pressure.

How many games was the ball camped in the back half without being heavily scored against?

Yes we don’t have 2 x 200 cm players but I don’t think that’s needed in the game now.

We have plenty of guys that can more than do anything he job.

We push back our mids to help to defend. But rebounding the ball efficiently is a whole different story.. we need our defenders to also take responsibility for rebounding.. Look at Geelong, Brisbane, Collingwood. Their defenders all run and carry the ball to midfield. It opens up the whole ground and make transition, forward entry much easier..

When we have the ball, all of our forwards/mids push forward to the defensive half of the ground, basically clog up the space for any quick/efficient ball movement.. often resulting to a long bomb to no one and turnover..

Ratts better get his act together.. because this has been a major problem since he took over.. we masked this in 2020 because of our scoring efficiency.. even in second half of 2020, we often can’t get the ball out of our defensive 50 for an entire quarter/half..

 

[luca77]

Love the ambition- but trading up to pick 1 in reality would definately involve us coughing up someone like jack steele or something equally essential.

Teams overvalue pick 1- it comes with an additional price premium over all other picks.
(Due to as much as anything, mitigation of the future embarrassment of potentially giving up a champion for magic beans)

It's dumb and illogical because pick 1's aren't in reality any more likely to be champions than later picks- but just because it's illogical, doesn't mean it doesn't happen-
If you want pick 1, you need to pay bigger overs to get it vs any other pick.



Love the idea, but Logue as the solution doesn't get me excited.

If we nailed trading in a gun FB, I think it would be like getting a 2 for 1 deal- because I think Dougs would go to a whole new level at CHB- a virtual new recruit.

yeah yeah yeah, too many talls down back, can't play them all etc etc etc.

Yes correct- but it's time to strap on the big boy pants and make some hard calls.

The goal is to get our best 22 into top 4 shape in the next 2 years.
In order to do that we are gonna have to break a few eggs to make that omelette.

We aren't ever gonna get a top 4 starting 22 with dougs at FB. (He's too attacking, not good enough at man on man contested stuff- an essential part of being a FB.)

So... we either ship him off, or play him at CHB where he can (in theory) actually use his natural abilities.

As such, I say we go with:

2023-
have battle train as a lockdown FB all pre-season,
doogs at CHB with a licence to attack and create.
Wilkie takes the 3rd tall spot,
Coff(if form and fitness warrant selection) takes sinclairs attacking HB spot,
and 2 of paton/long/webster etc take the remaining small back spots.

If this works out well ie:
1. battle can do what doogs can't at FB (win some man-on-man contests and not give his opponent 20meters of space all day), and
2. doogs can use his attacking nature to good effect rebounding and creating at CHB...

happy days- we don't need to bring in another key defender.
2024+ top 4 here we come!

If it doesn't work- well then it's as simple as ditching doogs and getting ourselves a genuine fullback, with battle returning to CHB.

If teams keep playing 200cm guys at FF, it amounts to nothing though, right? Doogs just ends up back at FB.

FFs aren't getting any smaller. Except when Higgins tries to play as one.

 

[bird_man]

it's not that I have anything against Logue, however, to me we have an abundance of his type.

How can he be FB @ 193 cm? Look he may be the answer but it seems the wrong reign to pull for me.

Not the melt I alluded to a few days back, but I will try to whip up a frenzy, gringo, you with me?

I agree, definitely not the type we should be chasing

 

[St Kilda Death]

Our backline is currently our strongest line. Improve the midfield and they won’t be under constant pressure.

How many games was the ball camped in the back half without being heavily scored against?

Yes we don’t have 2 x 200 cm players but I don’t think that’s needed in the game now.

We have plenty of guys that can more than do anything he job.

Completely agree, it’s been our most reliable line on the ground.
But got found out when Howard was out.
Exposed for that lack of height.
As much as some don’t like Dougal we are an injury to him away from disaster back there.

 

[saintsmania]

Logue will be a great addition to our backline. Him, Dougs and Wilkie. Battle and Coff as our interceptors and Paton/Webster to take the best opposition small. Sincs has to be moved into midfield next year to give us that point of difference.

 

[gringo2011]

How many 200+cm full fwds were roaming around back then?

They are everywhere now- and they can jump!

Height isn't everything... but it's also not nothing.

Melboure's defenders are Petty 197, Lever 194, May 193, Salem 183, Brayshaw 187, Rivers 188, Hibberd 186, Thomlinson 194, Bowey 176, Hunt 186.

In that last game they lined up with a back-line of Hibberd, May, Petty across FB, Hunt, Lever, Bowey across HB and Rivers on the bench.

The best FBs are often not as tall as their opposition but a bit of bulk helps in May's case. Defence is about zoning and isolating these days.