Preview 2023 Rd 13 Carlton vs Essendon Sunday June 11 7:15PM @ MCG

Aphrodite · Jun 8, 2023

Team is in ...

IN: Ed Curnow, Jack Martin, Marc Pittonet

OUT: Paddy Dow, Zac Fisher, Lochie O'Brien, Jack Silvagni

AFL team news: Martin among three Round 13 inclusions

Carlton's team is in for the Round 13 clash with Essendon.

www.carltonfc.com.au

Backs:	Alex Cincotta	Jacob Weitering	Jordan Boyd
Half-backs:	Adam Saad	Mitch McGovern	Brodie Kemp
Centreline:	Sam Walsh	Patrick Cripps	Blake Acres
Half-forwards:	Jack Martin	Charlie Curnow	Sam Docherty
Forwards:	Matthew Owies	Harry McKay	Tom De Koning
Followers:	Marc Pittonet	Adam Cerra	Ed Curnow
Interchange:	Matthew Cottrell	Matthew Kennedy	Jesse Motlop
	Lewis Young
Emergencies:	Lachie Cowan	Paddy Dow	Lachie Fogarty
	Jack Silvagni

I AM CARLTON · Jun 10, 2023

With Pittonet out and Silvagni back in I would like to see Young support De Koning in the ruck and play Silvagni as a key back with Weitering.

thebluenewdeal · Jun 10, 2023

jpfalvo said:
What are peoples thoughts on the rolling out of the 16 premiership cups by each team on game day?

In my opinion, it shows how out of touch these clubs are with reality...

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

The board see our club as a marketing tool, a toy. They want to play with the trophies that they had nothing to do with. It’s just a game to them. They don’t actually care about building a football club to compete at the highest levels. It’s a charade to them. It’s not about competitive advantages to these people, it’s about entertainment.

DangerousD · Jun 10, 2023

Coops93 said:
Iirc he's played 1 game, last weekend, had 18 touches - 16 handballs 2 kicks. Then straight into the 1s.

Thanks for the update, didn’t notice he played.

I obviously can’t use the line he hasn’t played in months but I’m sticking to my guns that his selection is a kick in the teeth to others.

SkyhorseTamer · Jun 10, 2023

DangerousD said:
Thanks for the update, didn’t notice he played.

I obviously can’t use the line he hasn’t played in months but I’m sticking to my guns that his selection is a kick in the teeth to others.

Not sure Martins calves would survive a kick to someone's teeth.

BlueTang · Jun 10, 2023

I AM CARLTON said:
With Pittonet out and Silvagni back in I would like to see Young support De Koning in the ruck and play Silvagni as a key back with Weitering.

Too creative for this team

Accidental genius · Jun 10, 2023

Worm4 said:
Those out there who are calling for Dow to be given a fair chance are going to be disappointed when they realise that it is Paddy Dow , and not Nick Daicos we are talking about
Will take no more than a quarter of football for the realisation to set in that he was left out of the side for a reason. Happy to be proven wrong

Because the current group of mids are getting the job done?

Accidental genius · Jun 10, 2023

Gethelred said:
Precisely a year and 4 days ago, I posted this in the Preview thread for the Carlton vs Essendon match:

I went on to discuss how the two club's trajectories meant we should win, but that victory for them represented peace and stability, calming the clamourous voices catcalling out within and external to their club. I spoke of how such eagerness could be exploited, how pressure and contested ball dominance could see us clear.

How the tables turn.

We've gone from a position of strength to an inability to score. Our vaunted midfield is a shadow of how it performed last year. Our forward line is two men, and our back six are under siege most weeks. Whispers are heard from inside the club, which means they're no longer whispers really; ex players and benefactors both have expressed public criticism of where we are right now.

All of that goes away if we win. Fail to do so, and 'minimum pass' has not been achieved; anything can happen, from a board spill to a coach sacking to a player announcing his intent to play for GC next year.

How this goes will come down to three things, really: how we go in the clearances, how we negate Merrett, and whether players other than Harry and Charlie score goals. I could talk about them, but who gives a * about them?

Our strength should be contested ball given the players we have in there. We need to make it our pill tomorrow, and we need to be cold blooded in how we do it. Far from treating the pill like an explosive - to be belted as far away from you as possible as quickly as possible - they need to treat it like a hot potato; move it quickly from person to person, trying to get them to overcommit to where the ball is instead of where it's going to be. Use that to force the ball free, and continue to move it into space.

Merrett had 16 disposals to quarter time against the Roos last week, which formed a cornerstone of why they kicked 6 goals in the first quarter to zip. After that Liam Shiel was sat on him, and while he still gathered plenty of the ball - 34 disposals - his influence over the game was severely diluted. While allowing them to rely on him then nullifying him and forcing them to recalibrate mid game is an effective suckerpunch, I'd prefer to have it our way around the ball all match. Don't even give them a sniff. If Ed is in, he needs to do it; if not him, Adam Cerra is a better option than Hewitt is.

I do not care whether we get goals from midfielders or the other forwards, we need to get them from ******* somewhere. I do not care if Lewis Young gets on a tear and kicks 8 goals from CHB (actually, that'd be pretty cool). As plenty have pointed out, we're struggling to score at the moment. Let's switch over to the way we played against WC, and let it rain up forward for a quarter or two.

There were games last year where we had 8 goal terms. Outside of form, there's no reason why we couldn't do so again.

Carlton by 15, following a cheeky head high free to Harry McKay and a drop punt set shot.

Should be a rule to include a summary in long posts.

passmark · Jun 10, 2023

jpfalvo said:
What are peoples thoughts on the rolling out of the 16 premiership cups by each team on game day?

In my opinion, it shows how out of touch these clubs are with reality...

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

Put them on the verge for bulk rubbish collection.
Club has continued to use them as proof that we are a professional club and should be respected when the opposite is true.

macky99 · Jun 10, 2023

gab213 said:
In all my years of supporting the club, I've never known of a fringe player being the subject of so much discussion. It's extraordinary really

Pretty sure we are bottom five 5 with a under performing midfield that continues to be found wanting.
Rightfully most supporters want to see Dow rewarded for ongoing good performance instead of continuing to reward non performers .

I AM CARLTON · Jun 10, 2023

If our coaches put Silvagni up against Draper and Wright in the ruck when we have De Koning and Young in the team then they truly have lost the plot.

gab213 · Jun 10, 2023

macky99 said:
Pretty sure we are bottom five 5 with a under performing midfield that continues to be found wanting.
Rightfully most supporters want to see Dow rewarded for ongoing good performance instead of continuing to reward non performers .

Would he make our midfield better? If not, then it's pointless. Good performances in the reserves don't translate into good in the seniors for some people, unfortunately for Paddy, he is one of those. He may be a good player, but he isn't AFL quality. He has shown that time and time again. He isn't the difference between us winning or losing a game. He's a fringe player, not worth getting all worked up about. At least we won't have to be reading about it next year.

Btw, what makes you say 'most supporters'? Do you mean a group of supporters on BF? You can't even claim it's most Carlton supporters on BF from what I've seen, let alone anywhere else.

macky99 · Jun 10, 2023

gab213 said:
Would he make our midfield better? If not, then it's pointless. Good performances in the reserves don't translate into good in the seniors for some people, unfortunately for Paddy, he is one of those. He may be a good player, but he isn't AFL quality. He has shown that time and time again. He isn't the difference between us winning or losing a game. He's a fringe player, not worth getting all worked up about. At least we won't have to be reading about it next year.

Btw, what makes you say 'most supporters'? Do you mean a group of supporters on BF? You can't even claim it's most Carlton supporters on BF from what I've seen, let alone anywhere else.

How do know if he would make our mid field better if he is not given a opportunity.
lt is a ridiculous argument you have provided reserves may not translate into senior level footy, what is your guideline then as part of the selection process, we all need he is not one of Vossy favs but his strong minded unwillingness to change approach will be his undoing in the long run.
Seriously we are playing a 33 year old Curnow, other commentators are of the same view eg Luke Hodge.

Yes let's just stick the same old like we have the last 2 months & not try anything different.

Coona Blues · Jun 10, 2023

I AM CARLTON said:
If our coaches put Silvagni up against Draper and Wright in the ruck when we have De Koning and Young in the team then they truly have lost the plot.

Will be Draper and Weideman, not Wright returning from injury. JSOS v Weid not a bad match.

They won’t with Martin back, but think JSOS being given some “schooling” back. Should continue and play Kemp as a floating “utility” to get Young to ruck contests through the game. Kemp and Young to mix up deployment, Kemp goes back when Young required to ruck, but plays predominantly forward.

blue healer · Jun 10, 2023

gab213 said:
Would he make our midfield better? If not, then it's pointless. Good performances in the reserves don't translate into good in the seniors for some people, unfortunately for Paddy, he is one of those. He may be a good player, but he isn't AFL quality. He has shown that time and time again. He isn't the difference between us winning or losing a game. He's a fringe player, not worth getting all worked up about. At least we won't have to be reading about it next year.

Btw, what makes you say 'most supporters'? Do you mean a group of supporters on BF? You can't even claim it's most Carlton supporters on BF from what I've seen, let alone anywhere else.

Was it only BF supporters that cheered him on to the ground last week?

There's an awful lot of Carlton supporters out there that think Dow has been royally screwed over by Voss and his merry men.

Blue_Hock · Jun 10, 2023

In my opinion, Young would be a better ruckman than jsos from a tap/height point of view but if the ball hits the deck, I'd much more prefer jsos on ball applying pressure in the midfield

gab213 · Jun 10, 2023

macky99 said:
How do know if he would make our mid field better if he is not given a opportunity.
lt is a ridiculous argument you have provided reserves may not translate into senior level footy, what is your guideline then as part of the selection process, we all need he is not one of Vossy favs but his strong minded unwillingness to change approach will be his undoing in the long run.
Seriously we are playing a 33 year old Curnow, other commentators are of the same view eg Luke Hodge.

Some players just dont make the step up from reserves to seniors, that was the point I made. How do you know that the senior coach doesn't like him? My comments have nothing to do with the coach. I don't think that Dow has shown himself to be of AFL Quality. There's a reason the club wanted to trade him out last year. He has had 6 years to cement himself as part of the team, how much more do you need to know??

gab213 · Jun 10, 2023

blue healer said:
Was it only BF supporters that cheered him on to the ground last week?

There's an awful lot of Carlton supporters out there that think Dow has been royally screwed over by Voss and his merry men.

Maybe but I'd suggest that there are more who really aren't concerned about a fringe player. Funny isn't it? When Teague was coach people were saying that he was screwing over Dow, lol. Maybe, just maybe, he isn't good enough.

myblueroan · Jun 10, 2023

Accidental genius said:
Should be a rule to include a summary in long posts.

Tldnr

macky99 · Jun 10, 2023

gab213 said:
Some players just dont make the step up from reserves to seniors, that was the point I made. How do you know that the senior coach doesn't like him? My comments have nothing to do with the coach. I don't think that Dow has shown himself to be of AFL Quality. There's a reason the club wanted to trade him out last year. He has had 6 years to cement himself as part of the team, how much more do you need to know??

l believe you are missing the point in his 1st 4 years he was only early 20s in midfield without much quality other than Cripps.

He has not had a chance under Voss it is very clear he does not see him part of the team, anybody can very clearly see this.

Carlton has hardly been a elite club of player development & growth for a very long time, he will prosper & do well at a new club next year.

gab213 · Jun 10, 2023

macky99 said:
l believe you are missing the point in his 1st 4 years he was only early 20s in midfield without much quality other than Cripps.

He has not had a chance under Voss it is very clear he does not see him part of the team, anybody can very clearly see this.

Carlton has hardly been a elite club of player development & growth for a very long time, he will prosper & do well at a new club next year.

I'd imagine that it's more than just Voss who has decided that he has no future at Carlton. You blame development for every player who doesn't make it, I'd blame poor recruitment in some cases. We picked very poorly at the top end of the draft for a few years there.

Love the Drake · Jun 10, 2023

gab213 said:
Some players just dont make the step up from reserves to seniors, that was the point I made. How do you know that the senior coach doesn't like him? My comments have nothing to do with the coach. I don't think that Dow has shown himself to be of AFL Quality. There's a reason the club wanted to trade him out last year. He has had 6 years to cement himself as part of the team, how much more do you need to know??

However dow has been tasked with going back to the VFL and building his game. Ironing out his deficiencies.

He has excelled at that level and improved significantly over the last 18 months.

He has been our best player (in the VFL) all year. Midfielders in our 1’s (Kennedy Hewett Curnow) have been sadly out of form YET Dow has not been given an opportunity in the 1’s to show whether he has improved enough to play at that level. Not withstanding selection integrity of rewarding application and resilience.

How do you/The coaches know if he’s improved unless he’s selected and plays at least a couple of games in succession? I just don’t get it..

gab213 · Jun 10, 2023

Love the Drake said:
However dow has been tasked with going back to the VFL and building his game. Ironing out his deficiencies.

He has excelled at that level and improved significantly over the last 18 months.

He has been our best player all year YET not given an opportunity in the 1’s to show whether he has improved enough to play at that level.

How do you. I. The coaches. Know unless he’s selected and plays at least a couple of games in succession? I just don’t get it..

I'd suggest that the coaches and the club would know exactly why he isn't a regular member of the team. He's improved maybe in the areas that he was good at already, has he improved in the areas that he's deficient in? I'm not so sure but I'm sure that they would know and so would Dow himself.

blue healer · Jun 10, 2023

gab213 said:
Maybe but I'd suggest that there are more who really aren't concerned about a fringe player. Funny isn't it? When Teague was coach people were saying that he was screwing over Dow, lol. Maybe, just maybe, he isn't good enough.

According to BF Teague was screwing over all of the players. Fast forward 2 years and according to Bf all of the players are screwing over Voss. You'd laugh at that if our predicament wasn't so sad.

HarryFlashman · Jun 10, 2023

Love the Drake said:
However dow has been tasked with going back to the VFL and building his game. Ironing out his deficiencies.

He has excelled at that level and improved significantly over the last 18 months.

He has been our best player all year YET not given an opportunity in the 1’s to show whether he has improved enough to play at that level.

How do you. I. The coaches. Know unless he’s selected and plays at least a couple of games in succession? I just don’t get it..

It’s very ****ing simple, I don’t get how people cannot understand it.
The best player in the VFL for the last 2yrs has not been given 2 games in a row playing as part of our midfield to show whether or not he’s AFL standard.
Whether he is or not is a moot point- no one knows as he hasn’t been given the opportunity. Throw in how badly our midfield has been going & it’s the reason why it continually gets brought up.
It’s down right ****ing stupid

Coops93 · Jun 10, 2023

jpfalvo said:
What are peoples thoughts on the rolling out of the 16 premiership cups by each team on game day?

In my opinion, it shows how out of touch these clubs are with reality...

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

Yeah, because nothing says "we're a club super in touch with reality" more than rolling out all of your trophies from the past, the most recent of which was nearly 30 years ago...

The last thing Carlton needs is using how good we used to be to argue against being shithouse for 20 years.

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Preview 2023 Rd 13 Carlton vs Essendon Sunday June 11 7:15PM @ MCG

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