Preview 2023 Rd 16 - Carlton v Hawthorn Sunday 2nd July - 1:10PM @ MCG

[Aphrodite]

Team is in ...





IN: Ed Curnow, Jack Silvagni

1

Jack Silvagni

Age

26

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.7

4star

D

5.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.3

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

0.7

1star

G

0.7

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.8

4star

OUT: Matthew Cottrell (suspension), Marc Pittonet

27

Marc Pittonet

Age

28

Ht

202cm

Wt

107kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.7

2star

K

2.9

1star

HB

4.8

3star

CL

3.1

5star

HO

22.3

5star

D

8.6

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.0

3star

CL

3.7

5star

HO

25.9

5star

D

5.8

2star

K

1.2

1star

HB

4.6

4star

CL

2.4

5star

HO

16.6

5star

(knee soreness), Paddy Dow

15

Paddy Dow

Age

25

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

AFL team news: Dual additions for Blues

Carlton has named two additions to its Round 16 team.

www.carltonfc.com.au

Backs:	Brodie Kemp	Jacob Weitering	Jordan Boyd
Half-backs:	Nic Newman	Mitch McGovern	Adam Saad
Centreline:	Blake Acres	Patrick Cripps	Sam Walsh
Half-forwards:	Jack Silvagni	Charlie Curnow	Jack Martin
Forwards:	Lachie Fogarty	Harry McKay	David Cuningham
Followers:	Tom De Koning	Adam Cerra	Sam Docherty
Interchange:	Alex Cincotta	Ed Curnow	Matthew Kennedy
	Matthew Owies
Emergencies:	Jaxon Binns	George Hewett	Josh Honey
	Lewis Young

 

[Arr0w]

You dont think WCE or GC rolled over?

I see it as we played better than the opposition

WC have been extremely poor with their long list of injuries

GC have beaten Crows, Dogs, Cats, Tigers, and went down to the Demons by less than a goal

But, apparently rolled over against us

 

[haveago]

Id be throwing both fog and Dow not the mix. Both provider speed, quick hands and agility. I think we have to change up the current mid mix…too many slows in there atm. Should always be a Dow or fog type in mid mix. Cripps/Kennedy rotate thru mid/chf and bench.

Walsh is not a beast like Cripps/Kennedy nor a speedy/agile type like fog/Dow. Personally I’d have him play on a wing.

IMO Sam back in guts v G.C. was the catalyst for the huge improvement in there. GOTTA STAY.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

I see it as we played better than the opposition

WC have been extremely poor with their long list of injuries

GC have beaten Crows, Dogs, Cats, Tigers, and went down to the Demons by less than a goal

But, apparently rolled over against us

I watched them v Melbourne, Bulldogs and the Crows and I can tell you straight up they werent the same side when they played us. That said, all will be revealed on Sunday as Im sure the Hawks will turn up to play.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I watched them v Melbourne, Bulldogs and the Crows and I can tell you straight up they werent the same side when they played us. That said, all will be revealed on Sunday as Im sure the Hawks will turn up to play.

Carlton weren’t the same side from the last 6 weeks either…

More pace in the side, more X factor up forward, showed a willingness to go through the middle.

We won in such dominant fashion, it is silly to discredit us.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

Carlton weren’t the same side from the last 6 weeks either…

More pace in the side, more X factor up forward, showed a willingness to go through the middle.

We won in such dominant fashion, it is silly to discredit us.

I disagree, but rather than go back and forth debating, I'm just gong to wait for the game this Sunday. If we are truly back like a few think we are, we should have zero problems accounting for Hawthorn. I think we can all agree on that can't we?

 

[Aphrodite]

Docherty, Blues out to buck bye trend

Sam Docherty spoke on the team's objectives coming out of the mid-season bye.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[juzza316]

My unbiased ladder predictor has us in 8th after two rounds if we beat Hawks and Freo

 

[SOS Rules]

Our best should easily account for Hawthorn's best. If we get enough of the ball and our connectivity to our forwards is good we'll go well. Probably should not change a winning line up too drastically. Binns for Cottrell should be enough. Longer term, Fog for Durds/Mots would be the go. They both still have a bit to work on in terms of staying in the game though.

George Hewett

29

George Hewett

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.7

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

10.3

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

4.1

5star

CL

3.3

5star

D

13.8

3star

K

4.8

2star

HB

9.0

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.4

3star

at his best should be in but there is not a place for him, Crippa and Chugga. We can't afford to be too one paced in the midfield.

 

[Arr0w]

I watched them v Melbourne, Bulldogs and the Crows and I can tell you straight up they werent the same side when they played us. That said, all will be revealed on Sunday as Im sure the Hawks will turn up to play.

Surely you know the rhetoric ahead of time, we win, Hawks rolled over, we lose, we are shit, sack Voss, etc

It won't change for the rest of the year unless, the unlikely that we make finals

 

[Arr0w]

I disagree, but rather than go back and forth debating, I'm just gong to wait for the game this Sunday. If we are truly back like a few think we are, we should have zero problems accounting for Hawthorn. I think we can all agree on that can't we?

Hawks beat the Lions, you can't just go by ladder positions and or 1 poor loss the previous week

Although, we should be winning this game

 

[jj1978]

My unbiased ladder predictor has us in 8th after two rounds if we beat Hawks and Freo

My one predicts us to fight for 8/9th with Richmond so % in every game is going to be important

 

[Gointocarlton]

If we can break the post bye win hoodoo and beat the Hawks, we just might go a run of wins, God only knows we need it.

 

[bmaurizio]

Hawks minus, Sicily, CJ & Wingard, are significantly weakened, the true test will be against Fremantel at Optius Stadium.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

Hawks beat the Lions, you can't just go by ladder positions and or 1 poor loss the previous week

Although, we should be winning this game

If you honestly have any doubts about whether we SHOULD be winning this game it shows how far weve dropped.

 

[thylacine60]

Hawks minus, Sicily, CJ & Wingard, are significantly weakened, the true test will be against Fremantel at Optius Stadium.

Until Freo lose a pivotal player to injury between now and then. This "true test" only seems to have merit when we fail it. I wonder what stage in our future development will the players get some form of plaudits for winning? Probably too much danger there of sliding into that no-go zone called optimism.

 

[Coops93]

I see it as we played better than the opposition

WC have been extremely poor with their long list of injuries

GC have beaten Crows, Dogs, Cats, Tigers, and went down to the Demons by less than a goal

But, apparently rolled over against us

The Suns were very clearly not the same team that won those games. Even the first half against the Hawks they were fairly sluggish, it wasn't until the second half they shook the rust off. If it was a better team than Hawthorn they're probably down 5 goals at qtr time and more at half time. Wouldn't call it rolling over but an affliction of this bye bug that seems to have swept the league.

The Eagles speaks for itself, might as well make it a bye round that everyone gets a 100 point win for and their no.1 key forward gets 8-10 goals added to their tally. Doesn't mean they rolled over, just that it's an easy win. As Hawthorn should be. Just because the Hawks have games where they play well above their station doesn't mean when they lose they rolled over.

 

[btdg]

Until Freo lose a pivotal player to injury between now and then. This "true test" only seems to have merit when we fail it. I wonder what stage in our future development will the players get some form of plaudits for winning? Probably too much danger there of sliding into that no-go zone called optimism.

There seems a weird vibe this week that a win over Gold Coast (travelling, off the bye, missing their best midfielder) somehow erases the 8 losses in 9 games before that. It doesn't - we were bound to get a win at some point, and the one that we did get was on the back of a single strong quarter. I don't think we have passed any 'test' really.

We came into the year expecting to be a mid-table team, and hoping to push for finals. We've been rebuilding for 8 years and our list is in its absolute prime: making the top 8 seems a realistic goal, I would have thought 'optimistic' in 2023 meant being a contender.

Ok, so finals are almost certainly off the cards unless something drastic happens - what is done is done. It sucks, but we have to look to the future, right. But even from here, surely 'optimistic' means 'showing that the early 2023 form was an abherration and offering hope for success in 2024'. Pessimistic would be 'continued poor performance that means we start rebuilding again, from scratch, with very little to start with'.

For 'Optimistic' to leap back into the frame, then I think we need to see something like:

• continued strong defensive structures that ensure victory against teams who are off the pace: Hawthorn, West Coast, and likely GWS in Melbourne (by round 23) should all be solid wins
• start winning against mid-table competitors even when the stars aren't aligned. This season, we have utterly crapped the bed against mid-table teams for the most part, hence our current ladder position. In my view, for this season to be anything other than abject failure we need wins against Freo (away), St Kilda, and Gold Coast (away) - at least 2 out of 3, but if we want to play finals we have to become the sort of team that wins all of those, instead of dropping our bundle and losing as soon as the going gets a wee bit tough
• to be optimistic, we also need to be competitive against Port (in Melb), Collingwood (sheesh) and Melbourne. Not necessarily win, but in basically all of our matches against contenders this year we have lost by 4-5 goals, failed to kick more than 10 or so goals total ourselves, and been out of touch for the whole game. At least one, if not all three of these need to be matches where we 'show up, give them a real test, stay close throughout and get beaten in the last quarter in a tough match'.

Note that last season I think we mostly passed all of these tests: save a mid season patch where injuries hit and we dropped a couple (St Kilda in particular). We rightly finished 2022 quite optimistic having pushed Melbourne and Collingwood right to the wire, with the team really stepping up when needed. This year - on current showing, we have regressed. That's going to kill off the optimism given a long run of poor seasons.

So based on that - the first 'test' is to just take care of business against a depleted Hawthorn team this week. The second test is to go and beat Freo away (or play a good enough game that it falls in the lap of the gods). Then the third test will be against Port - can we give them a contest?

I think if we pass all three tests there is reason for optimism. If we can't pass those tests, then 'optimism' is going to be in very short supply, and rightly so.

 

[Accidental genius]

If you honestly have any doubts about whether we SHOULD be winning this game it shows how far weve dropped.

There should be no doubt what so ever. It’s a win we’d have pencilled in at start of season.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

There should be no doubt what so ever. It’s a win we’d have pencilled in at start of season.

From top four expectations to telling us we are realistically bottom four or close to. I don't buy into any of that BS.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

There seems a weird vibe this week that a win over Gold Coast (travelling, off the bye, missing their best midfielder) somehow erases the 8 losses in 9 games before that. It doesn't - we were bound to get a win at some point, and the one that we did get was on the back of a single strong quarter. I don't think we have passed any 'test' really.

We came into the year expecting to be a mid-table team, and hoping to push for finals. We've been rebuilding for 8 years and our list is in its absolute prime: making the top 8 seems a realistic goal, I would have thought 'optimistic' in 2023 meant being a contender.

Ok, so finals are almost certainly off the cards unless something drastic happens - what is done is done. It sucks, but we have to look to the future, right. But even from here, surely 'optimistic' means 'showing that the early 2023 form was an abherration and offering hope for success in 2024'. Pessimistic would be 'continued poor performance that means we start rebuilding again, from scratch, with very little to start with'.

For 'Optimistic' to leap back into the frame, then I think we need to see something like:

• continued strong defensive structures that ensure victory against teams who are off the pace: Hawthorn, West Coast, and likely GWS in Melbourne (by round 23) should all be solid wins
• start winning against mid-table competitors even when the stars aren't aligned. This season, we have utterly crapped the bed against mid-table teams for the most part, hence our current ladder position. In my view, for this season to be anything other than abject failure we need wins against Freo (away), St Kilda, and Gold Coast (away) - at least 2 out of 3, but if we want to play finals we have to become the sort of team that wins all of those, instead of dropping our bundle and losing as soon as the going gets a wee bit tough
• to be optimistic, we also need to be competitive against Port (in Melb), Collingwood (sheesh) and Melbourne. Not necessarily win, but in basically all of our matches against contenders this year we have lost by 4-5 goals, failed to kick more than 10 or so goals total ourselves, and been out of touch for the whole game. At least one, if not all three of these need to be matches where we 'show up, give them a real test, stay close throughout and get beaten in the last quarter in a tough match'.

Note that last season I think we mostly passed all of these tests: save a mid season patch where injuries hit and we dropped a couple (St Kilda in particular). We rightly finished 2022 quite optimistic having pushed Melbourne and Collingwood right to the wire, with the team really stepping up when needed. This year - on current showing, we have regressed. That's going to kill off the optimism given a long run of poor seasons.

So based on that - the first 'test' is to just take care of business against a depleted Hawthorn team this week. The second test is to go and beat Freo away (or play a good enough game that it falls in the lap of the gods). Then the third test will be against Port - can we give them a contest?

I think if we pass all three tests there is reason for optimism. If we can't pass those tests, then 'optimism' is going to be in very short supply, and rightly so.

That's the reality.

 

[thylacine60]

Having watched him fail to make overlapping runs in the VFL too, I disagree.

There's a ruthless double negative in there somewhere.

 

[btdg]

Back on this week, it will be interesting to see our mentality.

Prior to their shocker against GC, Hawthorn had played a month of aggressive, attacking footy. They take the game on and score quite heavily: 15 goals vs Brisbane, 14 goals vs Port, 12 goals (and 16 behinds) vs St Kilda, 22 goals vs West Coast. Compare that to our previous month where we kicked 6, 6, 6 and 7 goals respectively... yikes. Can't really point to opposition as the reason, either: that run for Hawthorn included Port, Brisbane and St Kilda.

The constant for Hawthorn has been that teams have scored heavily against them. GC had 31 scoring shots, Port had 36, Melbourne had 28, Freo 27, etc.

The aim should be for this to be a party where everyone is invited to bring a goal or two. We have played much worse teams and dominated inside 50s - we could easily have 55 again this week, and teh challenge is to convert that to 20 goals. Do so and we win. Fail to do so and we are a chance to lose...

 

[Bletch]

Back on this week, it will be interesting to see our mentality.

Prior to their shocker against GC, Hawthorn had played a month of aggressive, attacking footy. They take the game on and score quite heavily: 15 goals vs Brisbane, 14 goals vs Port, 12 goals (and 16 behinds) vs St Kilda, 22 goals vs West Coast. Compare that to our previous month where we kicked 6, 6, 6 and 7 goals respectively... yikes. Can't really point to opposition as the reason, either: that run for Hawthorn included Port, Brisbane and St Kilda.

The constant for Hawthorn has been that teams have scored heavily against them. GC had 31 scoring shots, Port had 36, Melbourne had 28, Freo 27, etc.

The aim should be for this to be a party where everyone is invited to bring a goal or two. We have played much worse teams and dominated inside 50s - we could easily have 55 again this week, and teh challenge is to convert that to 20 goals. Do so and we win. Fail to do so and we are a chance to lose...

Could also say that we've only had one loss to a team outside the 8, and that was to last year's runner-up, interstate, on a 5-day break. We're 0-7 vs the top-8, but 5-1-1 vs the teams outside the 8 (including wins over 9th and 10th). Perhaps we're just performing as expected for a team around the middle of the pack?

 

[btdg]

Could also say that we've only had one loss to a team outside the 8, and that was to last year's runner-up, interstate, on a 5-day break. We're 0-7 vs the top-8, but 5-1-1 vs the teams outside the 8 (including wins over 9th and 10th). Perhaps we're just performing as expected for a team around the middle of the pack?

That would be slightly underperforming for a team in 9th/10th a la last year, would it not? In a very even league, that level of underperformance is enough to be bottom four, as well.

However, what has been most frustrating hasn't been the losses alone. It has been the nature of them: in particular, that month of games against decent opposition where we kicked just 8, 7, 6, 6 and 6 goals and lost convincingly in each of them, with each of the matches effectively wound up by half time.

A single good quarter against a notoriously flaky opponent doesn't undo that (although you obviously have to start somewhere). As I said, there's three steps from here back to 'redeeming' this season and offering a little hope for the fans; miss on any of those and things will look pretty bleak quite quickly. But all area manageable if we just provide 'par' efforts (and 'par' coaching, which has been the problem...)

 

[Arr0w]

If you honestly have any doubts about whether we SHOULD be winning this game it shows how far weve dropped.

It's not about one game, it's about phases. Of course we have dropped off, but you treat each changing phase on merit

My belief is that we should be beating a side like the Hawks