Autopsy 2023 Rd 9 Blues tease but go down again

[tarczonandjane]

And the next challenge, name people who were better at other clubs than they were / are for Carlton:

Pagan, Malthouse, Chris Judd, Greg Swann, Eddie Betts (controversial call), Nick Stevens, Richard Hadley

Richard Hadley

Age

41

Ht

190cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.3

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

3.3

5star

CL

3.6

5star

No current season stats available

D

5.8

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

1.8

4star

, Cain Liddle, Brian Cook, David Teague

David Teague

Age

43

Ht

186cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.6

2star

K

6.2

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.4

4star

No current season stats available

D

5.0

1star

K

3.2

2star

HB

1.8

2star

M

2.2

3star

T

1.0

3star

, Andrew Russell… that’s a starter list.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

There's a reason he is shadow of his capabilities.

Which are ?

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

And the next challenge, name people who were better at other clubs than they were / are for Carlton:

Pagan, Malthouse, Chris Judd, Greg Swann, Eddie Betts (controversial call), Nick Stevens, Richard Hadley, Cain Liddle, Brian Cook, David Teague, Andrew Russell… that’s a starter list.

Stocker, jack Martin, Jacobs, Josh kennedy, setterfield, Waite

 

[tarczonandjane]

Stocker, jack Martin, Jacobs, Josh kennedy, setterfield, Waite

Let’s add Mitch Robinson and Zac Tuohy too. David Buttifant should make the list as well.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

When was the last time you saw a Carlton small forward rove a mark spillage for a goal?

There to busy running leading patterns trying to take a mark .. the ego of not taking butler with a 4th round pick was disgraceful considering where our small fwd line was ..

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Stocker, jack Martin, Jacobs, Josh kennedy, setterfield, Waite

Ben Jacob's and Josh Kennedy the most costly decisions . Probably only two players really shone over long periods at there next club ..

 

[Gethelred]

This performance was akin to how we played under Teague. I do not understand how we can go whole quarters without making a correct decision, how the best we can hope for sometimes is a neutral choice as opposed to a good one.

If the club does not have a goal kicking coach after this game - someone directly for working with every ****ing player on the ****ing list on goal kicking tactics from all angles and distances - then they better get looking.

Realistically, they deserved their win due to the degree to which they rose in the last term, finding goals when they needed them. We correspondingly deserved to lose because when we were well on top scoring was harder than ****ing pulling teeth. While Cripps got exposed on the spread, the rest of their midfield isn't really all that much faster than ours; the utter fear we had of the corridor in the first half made zero sense at the time. For whatever reason, the coaches went in wanting to play a handball game but without trying to run the ball; handball clear, kick to a short hitup target, stop and recalibrate. But then we had nowhere to go, nothing to do; we've travelled all of 30m at best and they're now all behind the ball.

The thing is, we're really not that far away from being much better. Disposal is just so, so much worse than we should be capable of just based on how each individual player has played before. Gov is a better kick than he's shown this year; Saad is a better kick than he's shown this year; Weitering is a better kick than he's shown this year; Kennedy, Hewitt, Harry, Walsh; hell, even ****ing Young, Cripps, Docherty and Acres have demonstrated that they're better kicks than were on display last night. The question becomes why are things this bad? If it's fitness, why the **** are we less fit than other teams? If it's speed of thought or perceived pressure, why do other teams seem to deal with it better than we do? If it's any of a number of different things, why do we seem to struggle where other teams don't?

I've said before that I always thought this would be a year of recalibration, regardless of whatever we did onfield. We need to divest ourselves of players that aren't in our future and contracts that are not commensurate with their output. But we should surely be playing better footy than this.

 

[Kernafides]

The fact that both Voss and power think we did alot of things right in the first half is baffling. We were deplorable

 

[The Bighouse]

This performance was akin to how we played under Teague. I do not understand how we can go whole quarters without making a correct decision, how the best we can hope for sometimes is a neutral choice as opposed to a good one.

If the club does not have a goal kicking coach after this game - someone directly for working with every ******* player on the ******* list on goal kicking tactics from all angles and distances - then they better get looking.

Realistically, they deserved their win due to the degree to which they rose in the last term, finding goals when they needed them. We correspondingly deserved to lose because when we were well on top scoring was harder than ******* pulling teeth. While Cripps got exposed on the spread, the rest of their midfield isn't really all that much faster than ours; the utter fear we had of the corridor in the first half made zero sense at the time. For whatever reason, the coaches went in wanting to play a handball game but without trying to run the ball; handball clear, kick to a short hitup target, stop and recalibrate. But then we had nowhere to go, nothing to do; we've travelled all of 30m at best and they're now all behind the ball.

The thing is, we're really not that far away from being much better. Disposal is just so, so much worse than we should be capable of just based on how each individual player has played before. Gov is a better kick than he's shown this year; Saad is a better kick than he's shown this year; Weitering is a better kick than he's shown this year; Kennedy, Hewitt, Harry, Walsh; hell, even ******* Young, Cripps, Docherty and Acres have demonstrated that they're better kicks than were on display last night. The question becomes why are things this bad? If it's fitness, why the * are we less fit than other teams? If it's speed of thought or perceived pressure, why do other teams seem to deal with it better than we do? If it's any of a number of different things, why do we seem to struggle where other teams don't?

I've said before that I always thought this would be a year of recalibration, regardless of whatever we did onfield. We need to divest ourselves of players that aren't in our future and contracts that are not commensurate with their output. But we should surely be playing better footy than this.

Might just be the players…

 

[Dogman 1]

The fact that both Voss and power think we did alot of things right in the first half is baffling. We were deplorable

Sorry for interrupting but I think you have the cattle but if your top 6 don't perform it makes it hard. My other worry with carlton is your depth after the reserves were beaten by the u18s. Anything happens to those top 6 and I would be really worried. Anyway good luck for the rest of the year.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Walsh did play v Dees, but you’re picking up what I’m putting down.

Apologies he did too, I was in corporate box and might of had too many that night...(not really) he did struggle though.

 

[Kruezing]

There to busy running leading patterns trying to take a mark .. the ego of not taking butler with a 4th round pick was disgraceful considering where our small fwd line was ..

The only player on the list we have who can rove to the talls is Cunners who is of course never available …

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Yep. Seems incredibly basic. Harry on that podcast said he didn't have time in season for a goal kicking coach. Has too much other stuff to focus on. Like.... What?!?

Then I hear Kade Chandler on the Sunday Footy Show say that he credits Demons Forward Coach (Greg Stafford) and skills coach (Choco Williams) for his improvement.

Specifically mentioned he works on his kicking skills with Choco prior to each training session.

I guess some like him are hungry & find time to work on their craft whilst others get comfortable and make excuses, especially after signing long term deals on huge money......

 

[RedFury]

Watching MV's presser. Jeez.... Have a listen guys.... All is great, we just did not finish our great work.... Maybe I am old and grumpy, but I want my coach to at least admit that the system is not working.

Haven't watched it yet but surely he's just keeping the media at bay? Anyone in his position that genuinely cannot see the multitude of issues we have right now, is not the right person for the job, it's that simple.

I've been at the games the last 2 weeks so haven't seen whether he is still coaching from the boundary or not? If so, maybe he needs to go back up and have a look at the tactical view from above. So many things seem wrong at that level.

 

[SurreyBlue]

So much negativity in here.
We just need a ‘small rebuild’ and new coaches and game plan. Give us 5 years to execute.
We’ll be fine. All is good.

 

[lukep_86]

The fact that both Voss and power think we did alot of things right in the first half is baffling. We were deplorable

I'd love an elaboration on that one, we were horrible! I can't think of much we did right

 

[thebluenewdeal]

I'd love an elaboration on that one, we were horrible! I can't think of much we did right

Field territory, contest stuff blah blah blah

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Who knows. Maybe this plan of scoring 70 and keeping the opposition to 60 a game will eventually work. Not even 2013 peak defensive Ross Lyons Freo did that.

 

[aristeas]

Dismal day.
Positives:
1 Getting enough inside 50s - now we need to convert - Fix This and we'd win most games.

2 Pittonet improving - he can win the tap now, next he needs to learn to tap to our players, not just anywhere. Fix this and we'll improve everywhere. TDK needs to back him up.

3 Have enough talent in the midfield, Cerra, Walsh, Cripps, Kennedy (Doc) - need to get them working as a unit and not getting in each others way. This is a potential premiership unit, but not yet.

4 Defense is at AFL standard, minus the odd clanger. Is keeping us in games we otherwise wouldn't be in.

5 Almost enough AFL standard players, we need improvements from most of our second stringers to keep us afloat.

Negatives
1 Goal kicking f*cked - who the hell is coaching Harry et al. - This is our BIGGEST PROBLEM. Relying on Charlie to win us every game isn't realistic. Got to improve here or DIE every week. We could have had the game won by half-time with accuracy in front.

2 We break down at half forward week after week after f@#$%^ week. Long bombs to Charlie from the centre square can't be our best/only option. That short pass to a forward inside 50 is where we need REAL improvement. Too may players won't lower their eyes and find a moving forward.

3. Decision-making. Walsh (and others) win the ball then dither until the defence is packed. Have to learn to take the first viable option FAST. slow play benefits no-one but the opposition.

4 Voss' learning curve. It takes time to learn who can and can't deliver on your instructions and work the system, but he needs to figure this out quick. Looking forward to his getting beyond buzz-word bingo and coaching from 'knowledge of every players capability' instead of bashing the 'plan message'. The plan has to fit the players or it wont work.

5 Man management/coaching. Got to target individuals who can improve and get them in form. Can't do one size fits all. Harry is a Coleman medallist - work WITH him for ****s sake, get him some real one on one support and goal kicking coaching. Fisher has played well above his current form and is a solid tryer - get him to improve on decision making and accuracy and he''l prove his critics wrong.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Was at the game last night. My 2 cents.
Ed should never be picked again in the firsts. Finish in the two's and mentor the young player's.

I mentioned it in another thread a few weeks back and got howled down for it, but I wouldn't mind offering Ed an early retirement so we can get a pick in the mid season draft. We'd likely get a top 10 pick, and there's some good young talent out there we can get into the system for the rest of the year.

Ed's been an absolute warrior for us over the years, but where it stands right now, we should be looking to the future.

 

[Gez1969]

Voss’s pressers give me the shits. Just a bit off, lots went well etc. looked more like us but… what’s he meant to say? As much as I dislike the team we’ve become under his coaching can you blame the bloke for being even, staying on script? He’s in a horrible position.
The real pressure starts now. Losses to the pies, swans, dees and “gulp” Esserdun and no amount of footy “nourishment” (where the f did that one creep into the footy lexicon) is going to save him.
Come on baggers, LIFT FFS.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

Obviously I can’t switch teams…unless I move to Tasmania now…if I’m a Tasmanian then I’d probably have to switch to Tasmania?

I’m Victorian!

I’m going to barrack for Victoria!!

Why didn’t I think of that before?

Gives me a good shot at premiership glory this year.

Go Pies!

 

[blueblooded]

Finals are not pretty much done.

We are 4-4-1. Plenty of teams have won flags from this position.

We have the list to be top 4.

If you believe that we have a top 4 list I have a bridge to sell you !

Field territory, contest stuff blah blah blah

Contested possessions, inside 50s … Yada yada
Someone should tell the coach there’s two parts to the game … win the ball, kick it well… part two of the game being just as important as the first if not more important … so we’re not doing enough right nowhere near it

 

[The Sultan]

So much negativity in here.
We just need a ‘small rebuild’ and new coaches and game plan. Give us 5 years to execute.
We’ll be fine. All is good.

How long we been saying that ?

 

[Brackets]

Field territory, contest stuff blah blah blah

Just left a little too malnourished.