List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part I

[George]

 

[gringo2011]

I think he’d be on a fair bit more than that, anyway someone with have the gossip but I’ll go with 350k minimum.

Yeah, I reckon he'd have wanted more than a base wage to sign for that long.

 

[MrFoster]

Like Collingwood, you can't tackle when the ball leaves your area as you get to the player. They didn't give us time and we gave them too much space. They used the corridor and went out super close to the boundary... we let them have the territory. If we tried that we'd turn over in the middle or kick out of bounds. We take the ball around the outside and don't take many risks. This game we tried to take risks and ****ed it up because there wasn't a safe option.

Lyon needs to work on a plan for when teams stop safe options around the outside. We've been exposed by a few sides now.

Agree.. this “use our run to out number opponents in our defence, then use safe chip kicks to free man and rebound quickly” is no longer working. Opposition teams are manning us up and giving no space.

Lyon needs to come up with a plan B.. provide more run on the wings and half back. Otherwise, again like last year we struggle to transition the ball and get a clean inside 50 entry. The long bombs and rushed kick from Marshall are easily countered as opposition will now position a wall in their defence.

 

[gringo2011]

Agree.. this “use our run to out number opponents in our defence, then use safe chip kicks to free man and rebound quickly” is no longer working. Opposition teams are manning us up and giving no space.

Lyon needs to come up with a plan B.. provide more run on the wings and half back. Otherwise, again like last year we struggle to transition the ball and get a clean inside 50 entry. The long bombs and rushed kick from Marshall are easily countered as opposition will now position a wall in their defence.

It will still work most of the time but we can't stop working hard. If you have a game built on hard work and stop working hard you have nothing.

Still need a plan B as you say though. The shitty part about the last few weeks is the space that we are allowing other sides. I think Steele being injured has had to dial it back a bit and others are watching him go at 90% and adjusting their games down.

I'm hoping that a few weeks of rockstar footy has given them a kick up the arse. I wouldn't put it past Lyon to let them see what happens when you coast as a lesson. Seb Ross and his blind hand passing and a few front running acts from others are a sign of getting ahead of ourselves.

 

[BrutThough]

I think he’d be on a fair bit more than that, anyway someone with have the gossip but I’ll go with 350k minimum.

The average AFL player wage last year was 400k. If we are giving a 6 game rookie a guaranteed contract of 350k plus a year, we will be on track for salary cap issues in a few years. Maybe he has the potential if he hits everything in the contract to earn that much but that wouldn't be the guaranteed amount of it.

 

[The Punter]

The average AFL player wage last year was 400k. If we are giving a 6 game rookie a guaranteed contract of 350k plus a year, we will be on track for salary cap issues in a few years. Maybe he has the potential if he hits everything in the contract to earn that much but that wouldn't be the guaranteed amount of it.

There would be 8-10 players at every club on rookie deals that would pay less than half that. I would think something in the 250k-300k range would be most likely, but you need to take out the drag of rookie deals when talking about the average contract of someone who is past their rookie deal. The average veteran salary in the AFL would be more like 500k.

 

[BrutThough]

There would be 8-10 players at every club on rookie deals that would pay less than half that. I would think something in the 250k-300k range would be most likely, but you need to take out the drag of rookie deals when talking about the average contract of someone who is past their rookie deal. The average veteran salary in the AFL would be more like 500k.

Looking at this breakdown of salaries, roughly 2/3 of players got 500k or under past year which surprised me.

Million-dollar dozen: Stars cash in, player pay hits new high

A record 12 players were paid at least $1 million for the 2022 season

www.afl.com.au

 

[puppy_dog7]

Im the opposite on Clark, has to play on the inside because his speed and spread are poor but his work inside is elite. His clean hands are his best trait and he will still be able to get into the play outside of the centre. His kicking inside 50 is brilliant though.

Agree. Dare I say he just needs to get in the gym?
Or is that a sensitive topic in here still?

 

[puppy_dog7]

Agree.. this “use our run to out number opponents in our defence, then use safe chip kicks to free man and rebound quickly” is no longer working. Opposition teams are manning us up and giving no space.

Lyon needs to come up with a plan B.. provide more run on the wings and half back. Otherwise, again like last year we struggle to transition the ball and get a clean inside 50 entry. The long bombs and rushed kick from Marshall are easily countered as opposition will now position a wall in their defence.

He was kind of forced to do that though without King and Membrey for most of the year.

Caminiti and Owens did a great job for us, but they’re still young and inexperienced.

King allows us the opportunity to utilise him as an anchor more in that Dixon type role against us.

The amount of times port just sat it on Dixon’s head long down the line for him to mark or tap down to their mids and forwards streaming past is ultimately what won them the game.

 

[Yawkey way]

The average AFL player wage last year was 400k. If we are giving a 6 game rookie a guaranteed contract of 350k plus a year, we will be on track for salary cap issues in a few years. Maybe he has the potential if he hits everything in the contract to earn that much but that wouldn't be the guaranteed amount of it.

That would include incentives but he’d be on a pretty good base or his agent isn’t doing his job. Watch what tdk gets, he’s played less than 50 games is 23 and is nothing but promising. Kane Cornes thinks he’ll get 800k to 1million a year and he’s kicked 13 goals. I think in normal circumstances you’d be right but clubs loose there minds over young key position forwards.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

If a few players had a lot of good games in a good season and nailed lots of incentives wouldn’t that put the sc in danger???

 

[Yawkey way]

If a few players had a lot of good games in a good season and nailed lots of incentives wouldn’t that put the sc in danger???

I think teams reaching grand finals has pushed a few over the top before. I guess extending a couple of contracts with a little less in that year balances the books for the salary cap.

 

[The_Steadier]

If a few players had a lot of good games in a good season and nailed lots of incentives wouldn’t that put the sc in danger???

I'd expect the salary cap imposed on each club would be based on budgets, not actual expenditure.
The budgets would be a 'worst case' situation where all players got their max entitlements including performance bonuses etc.

I suspect it's probably not much of an issue though purely because the proportion of player payments that are "bonuses" would be a pretty small % I'd expect.

At a guess I reckon most clubs would only have ~1million of their ~13million in annual salary cap taken up by "bonuses/performance incentives"

 

[pebblesofsand]

I think he’d be on a fair bit more than that, anyway someone with have the gossip but I’ll go with 350k minimum.

Nah it will be nothing like that.

Maximum amount 1st year players get under the EBA is $110K plus $4k a game for a first round pick and its fixed for the first 2 years.

So a 200K max for the first two years for someone who plays every game.

The interesting thing is that he's signed on for that extra year.

If I was his manager I would be asking for some pretty sweet performance based bonuses to sign on for that extra year.

 

[bird_man]

Nah it will be nothing like that.

Maximum amount 1st year players get under the EBA is $110K plus $4k a game for a first round pick and its fixed for the first 2 years.

So a 200K max for the first two years for someone who plays every game.

The interesting thing is that he's signed on for that extra year.

If I was his manager I would be asking for some pretty sweet performance based bonuses to sign on for that extra year.

Is that also for mature players that were taken as SPP or is that just the base contract for a normal draftee that gets a two year deal?

Only guessing, but I would have thought that the fact he was negotiating a contract and he was contracted would mean he doesn't fall under those rules?

He was eligible for the sake draft as Windy and Owens, those two will be on more than the base rate next year

 

[pebblesofsand]

Is that also for mature players that were taken as SPP or is that just the base contract for a normal draftee that gets a two year deal?

Only guessing, but I would have thought that the fact he was negotiating a contract and he was contracted would mean he doesn't fall under those rules?

He was eligible for the sake draft as Windy and Owens, those two will be on more than the base rate next year

I think there's only a couple of exceptions set out in the EBA for 1st and 2nd year players and he doesn't meet either of those.

"When a first year Player is first listed by an AFL Club, that Player and the AFL Club shall enter into a playing contract for a minimum term of two years except in the case of a Player who has previously been listed as a Rookie at any AFL Club or where the Player is over 23 years of age by 31 December in the year in which he is selected by a Club."

I think SSP signing only get a 1 year contract but I don't think that contract would void the general provisions for 1st and 2nd year players.

Thats why you'd expect the manager of any decent first year player would be asking for more than base to sign any extra years past the first deal.

See JHF and Ben King for example.

 

[bird_man]

I think there's only a couple of exceptions set out in the EBA for 1st and 2nd year players and he doesn't meet either of those.

"When a first year Player is first listed by an AFL Club, that Player and the AFL Club shall enter into a playing contract for a minimum term of two years except in the case of a Player who has previously been listed as a Rookie at any AFL Club or where the Player is over 23 years of age by 31 December in the year in which he is selected by a Club."

I think SSP signing only get a 1 year contract but I don't think that contract would void the general provisions for 1st and 2nd year players.

Thats why you'd expect the manager of any decent first year player would be asking for more than base to sign any extra years past the first deal.

See JHF and Ben King for example.

If that is the case then it will just be next year on the base wage as he's played this and then two years on whatever was negotiated?

I think if he's on minimum chipsnext year he will be ok a bit more the following two

 

[pebblesofsand]

If that is the case then it will just be next year on the base wage as he's played this and then two years on whatever was negotiated?

I think if he's on minimum chipsnext year he will be ok a bit more the following two

Yep I think that's what will have happened. How much extra he might get for the extra years is anyones guess.

Anyway you look at it though - I think we've got a bargain.

Anyway my wife is telling me that overseas holidays are for looking at things other than BF, so I'm off to see some camels and buy some trinkets!!!

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Yep I think that's what will have happened. How much extra he might get for the extra years is anyones guess.

Anyway you look at it though - I think we've got a bargain.

Anyway my wife is telling me that overseas holidays are for looking at things other than BF, so I'm off to see some camels and buy some trinkets!!!

Be careful out there!

 

[SteeleSaints]

Looks like Bergman isnt in a hurry to sign, I wonder if we are interested?

Port Adelaide provides update on Bergman contract talks

“Well, look, it’s a challenge.”

www.sen.com.au

 

[parkeysaintertheman]

Sydney ripe for picking off some plums.

 

[Mowman]

Looks like Bergman isnt in a hurry to sign, I wonder if we are interested?

Port Adelaide provides update on Bergman contract talks

“Well, look, it’s a challenge.”

www.sen.com.au

Yes we are
3 VIC clubs into him
We have spoken with him

 

[sunny3193]

they put it on twitter which is more boomer friendly

Real Boomers aren’t on any social media.

 

[DougalHoward]

Real Boomers aren’t on any social media.

Explain bigfooty then

 

[sunny3193]

Explain bigfooty then

Weird sh1t.

 

[Drop Kick]

It will still work most of the time but we can't stop working hard. If you have a game built on hard work and stop working hard you have nothing.

Still need a plan B as you say though. The shitty part about the last few weeks is the space that we are allowing other sides. I think Steele being injured has had to dial it back a bit and others are watching him go at 90% and adjusting their games down.

I'm hoping that a few weeks of rockstar footy has given them a kick up the arse. I wouldn't put it past Lyon to let them see what happens when you coast as a lesson. Seb Ross and his blind hand passing and a few front running acts from others are a sign of getting ahead of ourselves.

I believe at training today the Saints were working on a Plan B, i was standing near a channel 7 camera man and before they started match sim a Saints media employee came up and told the camera man he'd have to rap it up and move on, which he did.
I don't know what the plan is but when Butler kicked the ball along the flank from the backline Ross stopped them and gave Baker the ball back and instructed him to do what he wanted, which to me was plan B, having seen it i was able to watch for it. There might be a number of facets to it, i think i saw part of it.

The game on Sunday will tell us if they are doing anything different.