List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part I

[George]

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

No one thinks Marshall isn't good enough. Obviously he can have huge games when he can be bothered. The problem is that he never does it consistently enough. If he found his consistency then he would have at least been in the AA squad by now, but he hasn't - seems happy just being everyone's fantasy pick.

I was replying to a post that literally said "Roma is overated. I would trade him."

He's one of 18 #1 ruckmen in the league, with a number of them absolute stars of the game.

Not making an AA squad is not the failure you make it out to be.

 

[The Punter]

I restate something I said around these parts last year without implying any recommendation: Grundy plays the ruck in a near identical way to Marshall.

 

[PoppedCorn]

I'd trade him but gee it'd have to benefit us massively

Something so good it actually won't happen

 

[BigMonty]

Something to keep in mind. Our list future is with SOS and Gubby - not the coach.

“Their importance (of list managers) is in their independence, and they must stay independent,” adds Rohde of list managers and their need to avoid sentiment in the deciding a player’s future.

Rohde notes the danger every AFL club faces when a dominating senior coach has the greatest influence on recruiting and re-signing of players. This can put list management on the path to long-term pain.

“I would tell coaches (when working in the AFL system at Port Adelaide and the Western Bulldogs) that you are there to coach players – and coach them until they are no longer here. That decision on when a player moves on is not for the coach.”

It is for the list management team."

Like all things it is a team effort. I am sure RTB has an input on the archetype player for what he is looking for to suit the game style that he wishes to play.

But the decision of how to get it there is the list management team not the game day team.

Think RTB is now more the conductor of the orchestra not the front man with a backing band of session musicians.

He has Andrew Bassett as his mentor and advisor to ensure that RTB mistakes of the past do not flare up again.

As for list management there are a core group of senior players that have on most matrixes underperformed at the highest level...sure they can football but just not to a high enough standard.

We know who they are;
Ross...Kicking...no hurt factor
Gresham....Kicking....Leadership
Membrey....decision making
Billings....injury...leadership
Howard....kicking....decision making
Hill....hardness at ball....kicking
Clarke...injury...lack of speed
Coffield....injury...lack of confidence
Higgins....accuracy
Battle...lack of height for key pos
Paton...indecision...poor disposal
Dmac....injury
Jones...injury...disposal.

The rest of the players have shown this year positive traits that outweigh the negatives. All the above have great positives but the negatives are there for all to see.

13 players of which most likely 9 will not be there in the forth year...that's 2 to 3 a year....let alone the bit players who will be gone at year end... basically if you have played 10 games at Sandy and none in the seniors over the age of 23ish then goodbye.

Nearly every side is looking for a classy mid, tall forward and back...so competition will be stiff.

As RTB said we are a Boutique Melbourne club...pretty apt description. We will attract players who want that opportunity without the scrutiny that the big boys get....under the radar types...Wood Stocker Crouch Jones et al.

Keep looking for those gems in the rough. De Goey Kelly Shiel Taranto Cameron are pipe dreams....we will be in the discussion surely but not when decisions and careers are made.

Our champions are one club players taken from the draft...they love the club and stay...that is how we must build that core again. We have a great start in the last 3-4 years and keep adding to the core with draft and prop up the other bits with smart recruiting.

Think RTB has had enough of Gresh and maybe Membrey?? let's get some picks for them and see what we can get in return. Will be a very interesting off season.



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[The Punter]

As RTB said we are a Boutique Melbourne club...pretty apt description. We will attract players who want that opportunity without the scrutiny that the big boys get....under the radar types...Wood Stocker Crouch Jones et al.


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Rather than avoid the scrutiny, we should be looking for players who are excited about winning the most unlikely premiership in the history of the game. Think about the regard St Kilda supporters will hold you in if you manage it.

 

[Diehard Saint]

He’s just physically outmatched most weeks. Everyone’s bigger than him and he doesn’t have the leap to make up for it. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that ever since he became our #1 man in 2019 that we’re constantly linked to other ruckman, they know he’s not big enough to consistently give a contest every week.

We’re getting torched at clearance which didn’t happen anywhere near as often as when Ryder was playing. Taps aren’t everything but at minimum you need a contest and unfortunately I don’t think Marshall can consistently give that. We’re seeing weekly that he can’t.

McEvoy wasn’t a great tap ruckman either. Until he got a very good midfield around him at the Hawks where the tap outs didn’t matter quite as much.

Could it be the same with Marshall - would a much improved midfield solve the problem, while still having someone who is great around the ground?

 

[Joffaboy]

Going around in absolute circles.

If we keep getting GOP's we go nowhere. Need to capitalise on our recent drafts and keep getting in quality kids.
Enough of the GOP's.


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[g_TRAIN]

On Marshall, he's doing a great job. It's really not his fault our midfield is completely shithouse. He's actually underrated for this fact.

Some people still don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that ruck work has very little impact on clearance. Great rucks elevate a good midfield but even they can't make an average midfield look good.

 

[Sully111]

I'm not in a hurry to trade Roma

I don't think he's the issue.

 

[crasha301]

Errol from Sydney has his contract expiring at the end of next year. I'd be in his ear now and would happily trade our first rounder this year for him because of his age.

If we got Parish and him our midfield changes dramatically.

Yes it would cost a lot of money but it's better than over paying spuds in our team just to meet the salary cap rules.

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[bird_man]

Errol from Sydney has his contract expiring at the end of next year. I'd be in his ear now and would happily trade our first rounder this year for him because of his age.

If we got Parish and him our midfield changes dramatically.

Yes it would cost a lot of money but it's better than over paying spuds in our team just to meet the salary cap rules.

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A Sydney lad that came through their academy. I can’t see him going anywhere

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Errol from Sydney has his contract expiring at the end of next year. I'd be in his ear now and would happily trade our first rounder this year for him because of his age.

If we got Parish and him our midfield changes dramatically.

Yes it would cost a lot of money but it's better than over paying spuds in our team just to meet the salary cap rules.

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I would too, but i don't think it will happen.
Think i heard something on the weekend about how Longmire claimed he was going and watching Gulden play 6YO soccer.

 

[crasha301]

A Sydney lad that came through their academy. I can’t see him going anywhere

Probably not but we should be asking the question with a long contract and massive coin.

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[Tommy Wigs]

Going around in absolute circles.

If we keep getting GOP's we go nowhere. Need to capitalise on our recent drafts and keep getting in quality kids.
Enough of the GOP's.


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Yep totally. If TDK and Dow and third banana rucks and so on make no difference to their current clubs, then we’re just wasting valuable picks.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I think we'll struggle to attract players without a significant improvement in our play.
I'd still be more than happy to just let the obvious ones go after this season and next while focusing on the draft. Strategize for 2025.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

The lack of quality in the Metro v Country game was tough to watch in our position. Amazing how last year it was being regurgitated that it was a super draft.

 

[St Kilda Death]

No on Grundy.
No forward craft.
Tap work worse than Marshall.
Not hunger.

Poor mans Marshall.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Rather than avoid the scrutiny, we should be looking for players who are excited about winning the most unlikely premiership in the history of the game. Think about the regard St Kilda supporters will hold you in if you manage it.

We're seeing this from an adult perspective and as long suffering supporters; doubt many of today's young players would even give that a thought.

 

[The Punter]

We're seeing this from an adult perspective and as long suffering supporters; doubt many of today's young players would even give that a thought.

I don't disagree with you. I just feel those who don't want the scrutiny probably also don't want the moment, and we desperately need players who want the moment.

 

[Diehard Saint]

On Marshall, he's doing a great job. It's really not his fault our midfield is completely shithouse. He's actually underrated for this fact.

Some people still don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that ruck work has very little impact on clearance. Great rucks elevate a good midfield but even they can't make an average midfield look good.

Articulated that far better than I did above.

 

[BigMonty]

Just watching first crack. David King who speaks sense occasionally.... said about WCE but applies to every side...if you are over 26 yo and you are not top 6-8 players on the list you must move past them.
Saints have the same issue.
Top 8 Saints in no order.
Wilkie Sinclair Marshall Crouch Steele NWM King Wood Webster and Owen.

There's 10... honourable mentions to Battle Hill Higgins Clarke.

The problem we face is that 26 year old group have been injured so the jury is out on Jones Ross Billings Membrey DMac and a few others decisions decisions


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[Sun Ra]

Just watching first crack. David King who speaks sense occasionally.... said about WCE but applies to every side...if you are over 26 yo and you are not top 6-8 players on the list you must move past them.
Saints have the same issue.
Top 8 Saints in no order.
Wilkie Sinclair Marshall Crouch Steele NWM King Wood Webster and Owen.

There's 10... honourable mentions to Battle Hill Higgins Clarke.

The problem we face is that 26 year old group have been injured so the jury is out on Jones Ross Billings Membrey DMac and a few others decisions decisions


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King is a AAA grade F-wit. How he has a job is frankly incredible. He used the word "violent" to describe a team's attacking attitude
out of stoppages, can't remember who, but he said it twice. He's a joke.

 

[bird_man]

Just watching first crack. David King who speaks sense occasionally.... said about WCE but applies to every side...if you are over 26 yo and you are not top 6-8 players on the list you must move past them.
Saints have the same issue.
Top 8 Saints in no order.
Wilkie Sinclair Marshall Crouch Steele NWM King Wood Webster and Owen.

There's 10... honourable mentions to Battle Hill Higgins Clarke.

The problem we face is that 26 year old group have been injured so the jury is out on Jones Ross Billings Membrey DMac and a few others decisions decisions


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You’ve got to be able to replace them though. No point delisting every player 26 plus that isn’t top 8 when you get nothing for them. That just absolutely cripples your depth and makes things much harder for the kids trying to be competitive in the VFL.

 

[gringo2011]

Errol from Sydney has his contract expiring at the end of next year. I'd be in his ear now and would happily trade our first rounder this year for him because of his age.

If we got Parish and him our midfield changes dramatically.

Yes it would cost a lot of money but it's better than over paying spuds in our team just to meet the salary cap rules.

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Gulden would be getting Buddy's cash next year.

 

[Sun Ra]

Gulden would be getting Buddy's cash next year.

He's not available - probs top 20 in the AFL now.