List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part I

[George]

 

[PandaG]

i think we need to learn from the jack billings debacle. i dont think you will see significant improvement from the likes of Gresham and Clarke that will allow them to become bonafide mids. you have to hope clubs will come knocking for them in the hope they do get there.

its about turning fringe midfielders into someone who can consistetly be a high performer in there.

move them on.

i'd also look at replacing Jones with Dow. its an upgrade. yes Dow's disposal is poor but so is Jone's and we will need depth. it's worth seeing if they can help turn his disposal around.

**** me
Move Hunter on and bring in Dow?

 

[Bob Butter]

It sounds crazy but with Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

26

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

leaving, north will need a backman. Dougal Howard

20

Dougal Howard

Age

28

Ht

199cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.9

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

3.1

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

3star

MG

176.2

3star

D

9.9

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.7

4star

T

0.6

1star

MG

171.9

3star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.8

5star

MG

133.8

3star

for Taryn Thomas would be an extremely high risk/high reward trade option for us. No one is doubting Taryn’s skills, he’s the exact type of classy outside player we need, but the risk is obvious. Only the Saints would know if they are confident they have the environment and role models to keep him on the right track otherwise it could be another Lovett scenario. Another out of the box option is Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

, dogs need a defender badly, similar high risk high reward scenario.

 

[St Neil]

Or they offer a two year deal which is renegotiated after the first year, which is what Brisbane did with Daniher so that Essendon got a better compo without Brassy having to trade,

But in doing so Brisbane’s salary cap was still assessed under the terms of the original contract. Otherwise the allegation of draft tampering could be levelled against them.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

I think people disrespect Membrey, for a long time he's been holding down the spot of a key forward with the immense height of 188cm.
His goal rate has been right up there.
More and more he was called on to play up the ground, and he had the tank to do it, but his first instincts were those of the forward. Take the mark, go back and take the shot. That style didn't suit his work further up the ground.
Meanwhile his marking was certainly appreciated by me when he found himself in the backline.

I don't see where he sits in the team currently.
We have Pou, Owens, Sharman, Hammer, Hayes, all playing various forward roles, and Membrey has really been injured at the exact wrong time to make a case for himself.

I still don't like the disrespect he's getting, if everyone had pulled their weight like he did, we would not have been languishing at the bottom of the ladder.

I don't disagree with him going to another team if its the right move now, but like i said. Full respect for his career.

Don't think anyone is disrespecting him .... we all appreciate his service and what he brought to a middling team ..... but ...... he will be 30 next May ... his decision making is slow .... and is currently very injury prone ..... and a few young uns are doing a decent job up forward in his absence and are worth preservering with and are also benefitting hugely from the senior game time experience.

Let's face it .... Membrey isn't the difference to us winning a flag and same goes for Billings and Ross

 

[tomjoad]

Writing off Membrey is rough

A 30-40 goal a year forward don’t grow on trees.

4th in B&F 2022
3rd in B&F 2021

He gives his all imho

Agreed, but maybe that's where we are at the moment. As others have stated guys like Membrey, Billings, Gresham etc. though for some are fan favourites, they just haven't/ and can't get the job done. We're not going to throw away a Steele, Sinclair, or Crouch. The next wave of kids are being developed...unfortunately (since many of them are able to play forward) it makes Membrey a tradable option.
It's unfortunate for him that he's been injured all year so as to prove his case...but it's a premiership business, and I'm tired of us being a version of either s*it or mediocre, which is the same thing but with not as much s*it thrown at it.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

It sounds crazy but with Ben McKay leaving, north will need a backman. Dougal Howard for Taryn Thomas would be an extremely high risk/high reward trade option for us. No one is doubting Taryn’s skills, he’s the exact type of classy outside player we need, but the risk is obvious. Only the Saints would know if they are confident they have the environment and role models to keep him on the right track otherwise it could be another Lovett scenario. Another out of the box option is Bailey Smith, dogs need a defender badly, similar high risk high reward scenario.

Not bad ..... two options you could seriously consider

If only Smith could kick and was able to extract his head out of his arse .... though if he could then he wouldn't be an option

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Don't think anyone is disrespecting him .... we all appreciate his service and what he brought to a middling team ..... but ...... he will be 30 next May ... his decision making is slow .... and is currently very injury prone ..... and a few young uns are doing a decent job up forward in his absence and are worth preservering with and are also benefitting hugely from the senior game time experience.

Let's face it .... Membrey isn't the difference to us winning a flag and same goes for Billings and Ross

I don't disagree with him going to another team if its the right move now, but like i said. Full respect for his career.

 

[DougalHoward]

It sounds crazy but with Ben McKay leaving, north will need a backman. Dougal Howard for Taryn Thomas would be an extremely high risk/high reward trade option for us. No one is doubting Taryn’s skills, he’s the exact type of classy outside player we need, but the risk is obvious. Only the Saints would know if they are confident they have the environment and role models to keep him on the right track otherwise it could be another Lovett scenario. Another out of the box option is Bailey Smith, dogs need a defender badly, similar high risk high reward scenario.

Dougal for Bailey Smith would be ridiculous why would the dogs do that trade

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Agreed. Coffield has enormous up side but his body has failed him. So far. He needs to get on the park in the next 12 months, but I would absolutely persist with him for a little longer. The lad can really play.

But I’m not wedded on to keeping Membrey, Billings, Gresham, Clark, Paton and Jones. Happy to load up with draft picks if they help deliver a much earlier draft pick. Those players are not elite core players. Great for depth but they won’t be the driving forces to future success.

Howard must stay unless we can replace him with another similar player. He provides us with structure that we need in defence.

Coffield had an ACL and some complications during his rehab. He's not the first one to miss extended time for that injury, and it doesn't mean his body has failed him.

 

[The Cobra]

Jack Silvagni’s future at Carlton remains uncertain and may have been further complicated by the form of a fellow out of contract Blues currently part of club’s best 23 in the rundown to a possible finals berth.

Silvagni, who missed last week’s win over Collingwood with a jarred knee, has yet to be offered a new deal four weeks out from the end of the home-and-away season.

It comes as the Blues work through some delicate list management and salary cap issues, which could ultimately tip one of the most famous names in football out of Ikon Park.

Blues chief executive Brian Cook said last week the club was diligently working through its list of uncontracted players which still includes Silvagni, Mitch McGovern, David Cuningham, Lachie Fogarty, Caleb Marchbank and Paddy Dow.

McGovern could remain at the Blues on a greatly reduced financial figure, while Cuningham and Fogarty have played solid roles in all six games of the Blues’ winning streak - their only games of the 2023 season.

The club might have believed Cuningham, Fogarty and Marchbank would all be elsewhere or delisted next year but their improved form would put more pressure on the Blues salary cap.


Dow and Silvagni could find themselves at new clubs next season, with the Blues’ opponent this week in St Kilda a possible location for the latter.

Carlton has been linked to Saints free agent Jade Gresham with the Blues confident they can still bring in a player from elsewhere at the right price.

Silvagni kicked four goals against Port Adelaide three weeks ago, but his role in the team next year is far from guaranteed, given the club locked into ruckman Marc Pittonet for four more years, while De Koning will likely play forward-ruck alongside the duo of Charlie Curnow and McKay in attack.

Silvagni - surely not - mid sized, no speed, no elite attributes.

Just a plodder - not what we need under any circumstances!

 

[PoppedCorn]

I think people disrespect Membrey, for a long time he's been holding down the spot of a key forward with the immense height of 188cm.
His goal rate has been right up there.
More and more he was called on to play up the ground, and he had the tank to do it, but his first instincts were those of the forward. Take the mark, go back and take the shot. That style didn't suit his work further up the ground.
Meanwhile his marking was certainly appreciated by me when he found himself in the backline.

I don't see where he sits in the team currently.
We have Pou, Owens, Sharman, Hammer, Hayes, all playing various forward roles, and Membrey has really been injured at the exact wrong time to make a case for himself.

I still don't like the disrespect he's getting, if everyone had pulled their weight like he did, we would not have been languishing at the bottom of the ladder.

I don't disagree with him going to another team if its the right move now, but like i said. Full respect for his career.

Disrespect ?

He's trade bait
I'm sure hes a great guy

No one is in here firing arrows at him and we all like him.
Its just it's time, he Is cheap depth/ break glass or trade

 

[stavro#4]

Silvagni - surely not - mid sized, no speed, no elite attributes.

Just a plodder - not what we need under any circumstances!

A chance

 

[Bertha]

But in doing so Brisbane’s salary cap was still assessed under the terms of the original contract. Otherwise the allegation of draft tampering could be levelled against them.

Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it's totally correct. They were talking on sEN about that deal last week and how it can help get players moved and clubs better co pensated.

I don't see how it would be much different to how Geelong took on Bowes' contract, then added years and smoothed out the salary, it would work is the same way, for example, Carlton was really looking to offer 4 years, but instead offer two years at a higher number and the after a year renegotiate an additional two years and smooth the whole contract out. It's exactly what Bris did, so why couldn't Carlton do it - unless of course they don't have the initial cap space to start with.

 

[PandaG]

Wonder what Howard would fetch in a trade. Presumably two firsts with a second back. He’s better than Shiel, so that fits .

But seriously - a pick in the 30s?

Howard is a top 20 to a side that needs a key back

 

[Sully111]

Would like to keep Coff personally. Probably more worth it to take a chance and keep him, having seen what he is capable of.
Won’t get much from other clubs due to his lack of playing over the past year, I feel.

People have short memories

If Coff and Hunter get a decent run at it, combined with the current young brigade, I think that would be huge for the club.

 

[Premium]

He's currently on something like $800-850 according to Cal Twomey, which I don't think he'll get anywhere, but two questions, a) what would you offer him per season going forward if you were list manager and wanted to keep him and b) if you were Gresh, or his manager, how much of a haircut would you accept in order to stay at the club?

Personally I think the answer to question B has a big bearing o whether he goes or stays. If say the club offer $600k, which this is say a 25% haircut, that might hurt his ego, also, we have a new head coach, assistant coaches and list manager in this season, I don't know how much they're looking backwards in terms of what Gresh offers.

I think he's likely to go, he's had 3 games where here been OK and many where he's been almost invisible and maybe the fact he's in his last year has impacted his ability to perform, that could be a factor? Not sure.

With King said to be on 750k , Steele about the same , Crouch on 600k and Gresham lucky to be in the top 10 players in the team I fully expect him to be worth 450k - Ross and Billings had the same salary reduction.

If the pay him more than that - no way is he worth as much as what Crouch is getting paid.
If he goes the salary we save will hopefully go to secure our a needed good midfielder like Flanders.

 

[Premium]

Howard is a top 20 to a side that needs a key back

We lose him and what have we got - nothing

 

[tomjoad]

We lose him and what have we got - nothing

If there's no upgrade in player, or a decent over the top return in picks, then we need not bother... and we simply retain him.

 

[Premium]

If there's no upgrade in player, or a decent over the top return in picks, then we need not bother... and we simply retain him.

Exactly - they need a replacement - and tall defenders are hard to find and this is why teams are looking at him.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Disrespect ?

He's trade bait
I'm sure hes a great guy

No one is in here firing arrows at him and we all like him.
Its just it's time, he Is cheap depth/ break glass or trade

I didn't even mention, and i don't know if he's a great guy or not.

 

[HayesTheChamp]

Have to ask the question of 2nd tier Suns youth that Dew put aside/in the bin:

Alex Davies
Elijah Hollands
Jeremy Sharp

 

[gringo2011]

I love Fisher but nowhere to put him. Sinclair Coffield Nas

Can play wing and high half forward. Good kick on goal.

 

[Bob Butter]

Dougal for Bailey Smith would be ridiculous why would the dogs do that trade

Because the last thing they need is another midfielder and desperately need a backman, not to mention his form hasn’t been good, he’s got problems off the field and is apparently unhappy at the club. Of course would have to throw in something else like a 2nd rd pick or another player.

 

[gringo2011]

I hear this every time I bleat about development and fair point. My suspicion is that players' first 5 years have a stronger influence on their ability that the next 5.

I heard Mason Wood on SEN today talking about Lyon challenging the players. You can see how he incubates high standards with out force. Makes players believe in improvement and bettering themselves at every opportunity. Get into that environment early and a different set of outcomes is possible.

 

[bird_man]

It would be laughable if the first thing SOS did was bring a in his son