List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part I

[George]

 

[Tommy Wigs]

If we are going to go to the bargain barrel for a depth mid (Dow, M Crouch, that type) - what about Sam Menegola for a year or two? Can play inside/outside and comes from a successful situation.

Please read the first part of my sentence before responding.

My Cats mates think that he’s been finished for a while. I’m not even sure I’m on board with Dow, but he at least he has age and some pace on his side. I think we now have enough younger guys at the level that we don’t need “depth” / “break glass” types. Would rather we have a ping at a later pick and find a Hammer, Wilkie, Marshall etc.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

A bit of a summary from what I just caught from RTB on SEN

• Owens is one of the most competitive players he has seen at this level. His second and third efforts, and his level of keeping his eye on the ball are as good as any player he has seen.
• Big fan of Caminitti - his contested work inside 50 rivals that of many 6-7 year players and what he's doing shouldn't be understated. Thinks he's an massive kid
• Reminded them that Phillipou is 4 days away from being in the u/18s this year and that he's had impact on games that is similar to what he saw from Brayshaw and Cerra at the same point.
• Rates Sinclair, Wilkie highly, and wants to build the midfield around Jack Steele as Seb and Brad Crouch are running out of years.
• Our strategy will be to go to the draft and add to the core of Mitch, Pou NWN, Windhager, Caminitti etc. Spoke about clubs getting lucky in trades ala Fremantle with Weller. Get the impression we're trading some established players.

Ross is a clever man, he knows what to say, and what to not say. I'd take from it that someone like Marshall might be gettable in his eyes (for the right price), and that all of Gresham, Clark, Billings, Membrey could be moved if there's a buyer that helps us get a higher pick.

Appreciate this, great work

 

[The Punter]

On North and concessions:

• if the formula says they get pick 3 for McKay, so be it
• there should be no academy concession for them this year, primarily because there should be no academy concessions for anyone
• also abolish free agency compensation and reintroduce automatic priority picks
• tanking isn't a problem (to be clear, it happens, I don't consider it a problem)

 

[_Maximus_12]

This make me more pissed if north get all there free hits this year in the draft. I reckon we would be one of the club making a lot of noise about the sanders crap. Happy that we have committed to the draft but it is going to be interesting to see how we get some good picks in.

Kane Cornes actually questioned Ross how to do it, given the compromised nature of the draft and he admitted it was difficult and we'd need to get creative.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

A bit of a summary from what I just caught from RTB on SEN

• Owens is one of the most competitive players he has seen at this level. His second and third efforts, and his level of keeping his eye on the ball are as good as any player he has seen.
• Big fan of Caminitti - his contested work inside 50 rivals that of many 6-7 year players and what he's doing shouldn't be understated. Thinks he's an massive kid
• Reminded them that Phillipou is 4 days away from being in the u/18s this year and that he's had impact on games that is similar to what he saw from Brayshaw and Cerra at the same point.
• Rates Sinclair, Wilkie highly, and wants to build the midfield around Jack Steele as Seb and Brad Crouch are running out of years.
• Our strategy will be to go to the draft and add to the core of Mitch, Pou NWN, Windhager, Caminitti etc. Spoke about clubs getting lucky in trades ala Fremantle with Weller. Get the impression we're trading some established players.

Ross is a clever man, he knows what to say, and what to not say. I'd take from it that someone like Marshall might be gettable in his eyes (for the right price), and that all of Gresham, Clark, Billings, Membrey could be moved if there's a buyer that helps us get a higher pick.

He does seem pretty uncertain on King. Maybe it’s just his usual honest ways.

 

[_Maximus_12]

He does seem pretty uncertain on King. Maybe it’s just his usual honest ways.

Hard to be certain on any forward when you've coached the hardest working CHF of the last 30 years. The bar is high for Ross.

 

[bird_man]

I'm on the fence with HC. He's one of those guys that just has quality in everything he does but it's offset with his lack of pace and ability to play anything close to 100% game time in the centre. I'd hate to lose him because our midfield is paper thin but I can see why we might want to replace him as well.

I'm not sure if it's his training standards, fitness or just a biological thing where he can't ever increase pace and endurance. Without knowing the answers we have just have to trust the club.

The fact that he can play two roles quite well is why I think we should keep him. He doesn’t get huge numbers but always gives us something when he goes into the midfield.

He’s had a pretty solid year outside of the injury. He’s also still young, I’d be more inclined to look at pushing some older guys out.

And let’s be honest, we aren’t going to get a great deal for him. The time to trade him was last year if we wanted him gone but we were clearly greedy with our asking price.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

100%

watched zac over here before getting drafted. his disposal is very very good. he was getting good numbers in the seniors at wafl level. carlton have tried to turn him into a defencive fwd. he's an out and out winger.

i'd take both tbh. dow and fisher.

Fisher yes, Dow no.

Can't take on any more turnover merchants (watch the fkr go at 90% efficiency on Sunday now I've said that).

 

[botts]

On North and concessions:

• if the formula says they get pick 3 for McKay, so be it
• there should be no academy concession for them this year, primarily because there should be no academy concessions for anyone
• also abolish free agency compensation and reintroduce automatic priority picks
• tanking isn't a problem (to be clear, it happens, I don't consider it a problem)

I would have no issue if the formula said McKay was worth a first round pick a compo. The whole manipulating of the nga system is what has pissed me off

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Very interesting. I’m new to the forum (and, out of curiosity) - what was some of the weird stuff going on at training under Rat’s tenure?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Dunno what Stav saw but word from multiple sources had players constantly late to meetings getting the wet lettuce treatment instead of a kick in the pants, players blowing off physio & rehab commitments & a general lack of accountability from the coaching group down.

The difference in training under the previous regime compared to now is stark. Not a moment is wasted... coaches engaged & enthusiastic. Players the same.

The change hasn't quite yet translated into on field results but I'm confident it will eventually.

 

[Yawkey way]

I'm on the fence with HC. He's one of those guys that just has quality in everything he does but it's offset with his lack of pace and ability to play anything close to 100% game time in the centre. I'd hate to lose him because our midfield is paper thin but I can see why we might want to replace him as well.

I'm not sure if it's his training standards, fitness or just a biological thing where he can't ever increase pace and endurance. Without knowing the answers we have just have to trust the club.

Way too good to let him walk for peanuts and to do so would be laughable given we thought he was worth a first or similar last year. Before the knee we heard he’d been good the club was happy and Clark was happy, he does his knee and we’re back in the nah trade him zone. We don’t have enough mids especially with his skills, I’m not trading coffield either he’s another quality young player it makes zero sense to sell low on imo.

 

[stavro#4]

I went to training weeks back, and it all seemed about the same as it was when Ratts was coach a year earlier- everyone seemed to be in good spirits, approachable and training hard as a group or specifically, you could have just interchanged coaches and it looked the same.

See the bottom post

A bit of a summary from what I just caught from RTB on SEN

• Owens is one of the most competitive players he has seen at this level. His second and third efforts, and his level of keeping his eye on the ball are as good as any player he has seen.
• Big fan of Caminitti - his contested work inside 50 rivals that of many 6-7 year players and what he's doing shouldn't be understated. Thinks he's an massive kid
• Reminded them that Phillipou is 4 days away from being in the u/18s this year and that he's had impact on games that is similar to what he saw from Brayshaw and Cerra at the same point.
• Rates Sinclair, Wilkie highly, and wants to build the midfield around Jack Steele as Seb and Brad Crouch are running out of years.
• Our strategy will be to go to the draft and add to the core of Mitch, Pou NWN, Windhager, Caminitti etc. Spoke about clubs getting lucky in trades ala Fremantle with Weller. Get the impression we're trading some established players.

Ross is a clever man, he knows what to say, and what to not say. I'd take from it that someone like Marshall might be gettable in his eyes (for the right price), and that all of Gresham, Clark, Billings, Membrey could be moved if there's a buyer that helps us get a higher pick.

You missed the part where he categorically stated

“We are open for business”

And mentioned Gubby + SOS and how we wanted to hit the draft. (I believe he was just copying someone from big footy who mentioned that )

Yep, the difference in training year to year was obvious. It’s almost triggering thinking about how we’re so invested wanting to finally get a flag and meanwhile the people we are relying on and paying squillions for are being totally half-assed.

This.

+ other things

 

[MrFoster]

We can't cover a 2m defender , he is the only guy that can cover the big talls like Daniher , Hawkins , Wright , B.King etc

Howard does a very good job on keeping a player covered and rarely does a player kick a bag on him and for us to trade him we out having no real quality to cover him is just crazy unless they find some as good or better.
I'm no Howard fan , but he is one of the best tall defenders around and this is why teams want him.
Moore 2.03m (COLL)
Brarrass 1.97m (WCE)
Taylor 1.96m (GWS)
Davis 1.97m (GWS)

Howard 1.99m
Wilkie 1.91m
Battle 1.93m
Cordy 1.95m

Would prefer to get Jacob Koscschitzke from the hawks, only played 8 games this year and he is super versatile as a forward/defender swing man. Only just turned 23, hope a 3rd round pick will do it.

 

[littlecreatures]

Dunno what Stav saw but word from multiple sources has players constantly late to meetings getting then wet lettuce treatment instead of a kick in the pants, players blowing off physio & rehab commitments & a general lack of accountability from the coaching group down.

The difference in training under the previous regime compared to now is stark. Not a moment is wasted... coaches engaged & enthusiastic. Players the same.

The change hasn't quite yet translated into on field results but I'm confident it will eventually.

Thanks mate


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Yawkey way]

Fisher yes, Dow no.

Can't take on any more turnover merchants (watch the fkr go at 90% efficiency on Sunday now I've said that).

Plays with some urgency and pace which is something we lack, i could see him being a handy pick up.

 

[stavro#4]

Yep, the difference in training year to year was obvious. It’s almost triggering thinking about how we’re so invested wanting to finally get a flag and meanwhile the people we are relying on and paying squillions for are being totally half-assed.

Dunno what Stav saw but word from multiple sources has players constantly late to meetings getting then wet lettuce treatment instead of a kick in the pants, players blowing off physio & rehab commitments & a general lack of accountability from the coaching group down.

The difference in training under the previous regime compared to now is stark. Not a moment is wasted... coaches engaged & enthusiastic. Players the same.

The change hasn't quite yet translated into on field results but I'm confident it will eventually.

Leading into 2020. We had drones filming match sim.

Rath and Ratten walking on the field stopping play coaching it etc
Players got a bollocking for poor disposal and attitude etc

We had massive fitness and gym sessions etc.

A year later. Leading into 2021.
I went to a number during pre season. No drones.
No one correcting game plan
No one getting their butt kicked for missed targets.
Very little “craft” work.

Players getting told to own their development and training now. “You know what you need to get ready” was the shit Ratten and co were saying.

Everyone kind of doing things half assed.

Very little doing extras.

2022
They beefed up the fitness work. Went away from player led pre seasons.

Never went back to players getting smashed for constant poor disposal. A lot of back patting and well dones from Ratten.

Injured blokes grabbing coffees during main sessions and ****ing around whilst training was on. Etc

 

[Yawkey way]

We can't cover a 2m defender , he is the only guy that can cover the big talls like Daniher , Hawkins , Wright , B.King etc

Would prefer to get Jacob Koscschitzke from the hawks, only played 8 games this year and he is super versatile as a forward/defender swing man.

Wanted him in his draft year and haven’t changed my mind. He’s a versatile tall who was a key back at tac level and he’s behind a few at the hawks so should be avaliable.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Leading into 2020. We had drones filming match sim.

Rath and Ratten walking on the field stopping play coaching it etc
Players got a bollocking for poor disposal and attitude etc

We had massive fitness and gym sessions etc.

A year later. Leading into 2021.
I went to a number during pre season. No drones.
No one correcting game plan
No one getting their butt kicked for missed targets.
Very little “craft” work.

Players getting told to own their development and training now. “You know what you need to get ready” was the s**t Ratten and co were saying.

Everyone kind of doing things half assed.

Very little doing extras.

2022
They beefed up the fitness work. Went away from player led pre seasons.

Never went back to players getting smashed for constant poor disposal. A lot of back patting and well dones from Ratten.

Injured blokes grabbing coffees during main sessions and ******* around whilst training was on. Etc

Looks like the move from Richo to Ratten was a massive step backwards.
Richo was not inspiring, but he probably was diligent.

 

[stavro#4]

Leading into 2020. We had drones filming match sim.

Rath and Ratten walking on the field stopping play coaching it etc
Players got a bollocking for poor disposal and attitude etc

We had massive fitness and gym sessions etc.

A year later. Leading into 2021.
I went to a number during pre season. No drones.
No one correcting game plan
No one getting their butt kicked for missed targets.
Very little “craft” work.

Players getting told to own their development and training now. “You know what you need to get ready” was the s**t Ratten and co were saying.

Everyone kind of doing things half assed.

Very little doing extras.

2022
They beefed up the fitness work. Went away from player led pre seasons.

Never went back to players getting smashed for constant poor disposal. A lot of back patting and well dones from Ratten.

Injured blokes grabbing coffees during main sessions and ******* around whilst training was on. Etc

And just quoting myself to add.

This year under Ross.

Everything was meticulously planned.

If someone wasn’t in the gym. They were on the grass working on craft.

FOR EXAMPLE - it will sound pathetic.

But we actually had blokes manning the mark for set shot practice and snaps from the boundary had someone on the mark and someone coming off the protected area

Under Ratten. It was like watching your local club on a Tuesday night and he also didn’t allow huge amounts of time for goal kicking practice. Ross encourages it. Players get the ball after sessions and work on it for 30-60 minutes UNTIL THEY ARE COMFORTABLE

Every drill is designed to work on a flaw or a part of the game plan now.

Mids forwards defenders generally split up now under the line coaches

A lot more situational work - big clock on the screen. All from different parts of the ground.

The disposal stuff is abit shit still. But Ross destroys anyone going less than 100% or not working within the game plan.

Stops play and coaches players on the errors - re runs plays now etc

Night and day difference

 

[stavro#4]

Looks like the move from Richo to Ratten was a massive step backwards.
Richo was not inspiring, but he probably was diligent.

Just as shit under Richo.

But Ratten could build better player relationships

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Wilkie ( Adams ? Van Es?)
Wanganeen-Milera ,
Steele, Owens , Phillipou , Marshall ( Windhager , Hotton? , Heath?, Keeler? ).
King, Caminiti
Higgins?

Everyone else needs to play their role. No excuses.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Just as s**t under Richo.

But Ratten could build better player relationships

Of course he could, he was all the players best mates.
First i've heard of poor standards under Richo. He was always pretty old school. I always thought his shortcomings were strategy and vision.

 

[The Punter]

On the goalkicking stuff, take out the two North Melbourne games (8.16 and 9.15), we've kicked 200.147 this year. Better than 4 goals for every 3 behinds.

Take out the rushed behinds its 200.114

 

[SaintersUnite]

Of course he could, he was all the players best mates.
First i've heard of poor standards under Richo. He was always pretty old school. I always thought his shortcomings were strategy and vision.

Richo’s main shortcoming was the list he had to work with. I’ll stick by that.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[stavro#4]

Of course he could, he was all the players best mates.
First i've heard of poor standards under Richo. He was always pretty old school. I always thought his shortcomings were strategy and vision.

I think the easiest way to understand the difference is watching a few of RTBs.

Night and day. Everyone has something they are expected to be doing.

Blokes constantly going off to the DFC for rehab after gym sessions now.

Players finishing grass sessions and hitting the gym.

Blokes finishing a gym session and Running a few ks